Input on scammers filing for non-receive only cause item/s had no tracking

[33nhl]

I lost official faith of Ebay during the holidays in the way it handles when in my opinion scammer that think like smart alches and using Ebay flaw that when an item shipped has no tracking as it sent via regular mail upon receiving the item they file as if they have not received and after few days Ebay concludes since ther is no physical tracking number for a 20.00 item sent regular mail gives a refund to the buyer.

Like is this now the norm of listing/selling on Ebay that any item listed with regular mail or some have free shipping that you might aswell give the item completely free with out listing it in the first place cause with the amount of non received cases being filed what is the point of paying listing fees and selling fees for any item that wont have tracking, and then have to deal with this kind of scams.

From one side Ebay tells you to attract buyers offer free shipping and then tells you after  upon getting someone that filed non received item, that since you had no tracking number your out of luck and thus have to refund the buyer, if this is not lying/scamming then I don't know what is.

How many buyers would buy a $10.00 item anywhere online and then pay $15.00 or more to have it tracked shipped.

I will go further on this above as I had a buyer from cheq republic recently past 3 days make a $200.00 item purchase but upon going to the check out to pay he saw that item has to be sent with tracking as stated in listing cost to send over seas registered tracking signature ect cost almost $30.00, so he asked wants it regular mail, then he cancelled transaction.

Now had I did the buyer favor accepted and mail it as regular mail then files for lost or non received then I be out money and item and people at Ebay they tell you after since no tracking number you have to give refund. that says a lot of how Ebay has become. its become a scammers dream and only way to escape it is not to list any item for sale with out tracking even if its for a $1.00 item

Have any of you experienced this and what have you done. I know some will say its part of selling on Ebay, and if it is then I think its better to start buying items rather then selling and after filing for non received and getting refunds and keeping the product as Ebay seems to be endorsing this process in the way they are handling case like these 

[momcqueen]

I shifted from untracked parcels to only Tracked Packet for international sales in 2014 and haven’t looked back. I grew weary of giving items away due to Item Not Received cases I couldn’t fight without tracking although there was at least one that was reversed by PayPal as a courtesy.

That being said, about 15 per cent of my lower cost items still ship lettermail. I’ve had two INRs in the past four years that way. It would be a loss ratio of way below one per cent. Maybe one-quarter of one per cent or less.

Buyers who ask to downgrade to an untracked method of shipment must be denied; they are planning to scam you. One must also cull the list of ship-to countries to be served without tracking and set a dollar-value to insure third-party. Finally what one sells and to what demographic also plays a big role. Think of the people who pay the highest rates for auto or home insurance as being your riskiest buyers.

There’s always a balancing act to be considered but I decided my tolerance for risk was lower than my desperation to make sales to bottom-price shoppers.

If a buyer wants what I sell, they’ll appreciate it will be tracked along the way to them.

[momcqueen]

Comparing my loss rates of well below one percent between 2014 to 2018 versus 2012 to 2014 when it was as high as ten percent of sales at one point. UK and France buyers were filing the not-received cases while Royal Mail and La Poste are as reliable mail service as they come. More likely the buyers were hit with import fees and retaliated by taking out their frustrations on the seller for rules of which they were unaware.

[momcqueen]

Actually, I think it hit 14 per cent at one point. Which is inconceivable.

[femmefan1946]

@33nhl

a $200.00 item purchase ...he saw that item has to be sent with tracking ...cost to send over seas registered tracking signature ect cost almost $30.00, so he asked wants it regular mail, then he cancelled transaction.

I've had the same problem. One reason I no longer ship to India is too many claims of non-delivery on untracked shipments, and refusal to pay for tracked delivery.

But NEVER use Registered Mail as tracking outside of Canada.

ONLY use Tracked Packet.

EBay and Paypal do not recognize Registered as being electronically visible-- and many countries no longer track international mail once it leaves its home postal system.

And of course here comes the lecture on Cookie Jar Insurance.

If we are shipping without tracking, we need to put a few virtual pennies into a virtual Cookie Jar as a sort of self-insurance premium against the occasional problem.

As momcqueen indicates a normal 'loss' or problem rate should be 1% or lower.

With Cookie Jar Insurance, when a problem arises, the seller covers his costs from the Cookie Jar. And most of the time there is a real problem, even one caused by the seller, because most people are honest.

The Cookie Jar covers more than any third party insurer and doesn't argue with the seller.

Or it may be necessary to look at our own business policies. Whether that is blocking certain countries or only using Tracked shipping or even using tracking and (shudder) paying for it ourselves .

Sellers who use Fixed Price and Buy It Now listings can't check up on the FB Left for Others of our customers, so we have to PYA.

[femmefan1946]

On a more optimistic note, most buyers are honest, and with holiday mail, the shipment may be delayed but not lost.

• EBay promised to protect sellers against INR even on untracked shipments because of the Canada Post labour dispute @happy_pigeon
• Give the customer a week or so, then re-invoice using Paypal's Request Money service, including a cheerful note that his shipment should have arrived by now, with the holiday slowdowns over, and the seller is making it easy for the buyer to return the refund. This often works.

[33nhl]

Unfortunately that isn't the case on 2 items as Ebay personnel made simple decision quote from email I received from Ebay even after appealing.

 eBay Customer Support has reviewed the case and made a final decision.

Comments:
Unfortunately, you didn't provide tracking information in time to win this case.

So with this type of ruling its open season for just about any one can make a purchase of an item that will be shipped for free or regular mail and then file as not received.

Even if you provide Ebay with pictures of the package when dropped off at the post office with official receipt from the post office and show the buyers postal code or zip code on the receipt that is still not good enough. 

So its open season NO TRACKING NUMBER such as example LM 123 456 789 CA is not provided to Ebay Resolution or not provided when you mail a package out you can consider it a loss transaction if that buyer files as so many are currently doing this kind thing.

Yes I seen the penny jar insurance before but that is not a true solution to this scam flaw that Ebay is allowing to happen and is slowly escalating in amount of cases been done for no reason other then to scam decent sellers.

I doubt very much if going forward Ebay forced buyers to pay for tracking on any item even if its $2.00 item, No buyer  would buy a $2.00 item and pay $15 or more to have it shipped.  The sales ratio would take a dive and Ebay does not want that cause they be loosing fees money.

Seems the protection that as a seller we had years ago has gone through the window and Ebay is taking scammers side 

Plus after this type of flaw ruling both Ebay and PayPal keep the fees from the original sale. So if that not a cash cow method to do sellers in then I don't know what else to call it.

[33nhl]

How many people would go to a restaurant eat then complain food/service was garbage not pay leave and then after 2 weeks come back to the same place and say here I want to pay for the meals I had 2 weeks ago. Same thing with a buyer once they get a refund and the item does or has shown up and they wont call you to say here I want to send you your money or the product back, it would be nice for that to happen but it be like winning the lottery or have better chance getting hit by lighting before a buyer would do that.

[marnotom!]

Conversely, how many restaurant patrons would continue to eat at a restaurant that serves lousy food or offers lousy service and refuses to take responsibility for it and make things right with their customers?

And how long would that restaurant stay in business once word got out that the restaurant's management was keeping customers' money for something they paid for and didn't get: good food and service.

I appreciate you're frustrated and out of pocket from these questionable INRs, but as other posters have suggested, you have to decide if your loss rate is low enough and your sales volume high enough that you can afford to take hits like this, and if you can afford fewer sales by using a shipping method with online viewable delivery confirmation or tracking.

You might also want to ask yourself how you would have handled these claims in a world where eBay or PayPal didn't step in on the buyers' behalf. Without tracking or delivery confirmation, how would you know for sure that these buyers' claims weren't legit?

[pjcdn2005]

To win an inr on Paypal, tracking has been required for as long as I can remember. It's been necessary to win on ebay too for quite a while.  I can understand your frustration but if I was a buyer and my item didn't arrive, I would certainly want a refund.  Some people are dishonest, though many are not so you have to decide if you the number of dishonest ones in your category make it worthwhile to ship inexpensive items without tracking.  I know many sellers who have very few problems shipping that way but your experiences may differ.

Have you looked into using Chit Chat for your US shipments? It would be under $3 for postage with tracking via USPS. I don't know if there are other companies who provide that service in your area.

[heartovermind]

do you know for sure this person really received the item? there was an item on Global news of a thief following the CP delivery person around, walked up to a house, opened the door, took the parcel out (this was, a "safe drop") Following the track notes for Usps, they leave them at the box at the gate, in front of the barn with the horses, throw them on the step, wherever. this is with track! I would think the real "protection" against serial scammers is for ebay to flag that this one buyer has claimed INR 9 times in 6 months. If it is a one time claim, with 15 other buys that got there with no INR claim, would you then believe the buyer?

[reallynicestamps]

Seems the protection that as a seller we had years ago has gone through the window

That must have been before 1998, when we first started listing on eBay.

[cooltoycars]

Actually, I once received an INR refund then received the item a week later. I did pay the seller but then again I believe in Karma.

[teenytrinkets]

Yep - I will no longer ship to the UK for this reason. Lost $50 on item and $20 to ship untracked. Buyer was eager to get a refund after 2 weeks of not receiving. Had INR scam written all over it. $70 lesson learned...

I continue to ship ~$20-$30 items untracked in Canada and the US since these low valued items typically don't attract the scammers...

[szarfgrish]

I have purchased in September,2018 about 14 building block sets on E-Bay from 4 different sellers. I received shipping numbers and started tracking in late October. I was advised that after 40 odd days they were still in China. I have not received any of these until today. There seem to be a lot of scammer sellers on E-Bay and it takes way too long for E-Bay to weed them out and that may be the reason why I place a negative feedback after 54 days and a claim a day after last shipping date. I have been burned too many times. I did get a REFUND from Pay Pal.
I buy on other sites and will buy only when shipped via DHL or Epacket and needless to say I have not had to place a claim for INR.
Too bad sellers on Ebay do not have the option to send by Epacket at least.

[momcqueen]

“....Too bad sellers on Ebay do not have the option to send by Epacket at least.”

Maybe you mean sellers from overseas. Canadian sellers are able to deliver within the week.

And all sellers pick their postal services to offer. eBay does not. If your sellers are picking shipping that takes three months to deliver, it’s because they chose that for you.

Look within Canada if you want faster, more reliable service.

[szarfgrish]

The items I buy are only available in China and generally under $30.00. I buy mostly toys. Yes I meant sellers on Ebay do not offer Epacket or DHL and shipping has been extended to up to 45-75 business days. I can buy on a comparable platform from China for about the same price( Give or take up to $5.00) and shipped by Epacket or free shipping China Post Registered guaranteed 40 days.

[reallynicestamps]

But a long delivery period does not mean you cannot Dispute the purchase.

EBay allows us to file a Not Received claim for 30 days AFTER the last estimated delivery date.

So if your purchase is estimated to take 60 days, you still have another 30 days to file your dispute after Day 60.

If the seller cannot prove delivery (not shipping, delivery) you will be refunded.

Same for items that are received, but Not As Described.

The seller is inNAD disputes allowed to demand that the purchase be returned. But he may be required by eBay to pay return shipping.

If he doesn't provide shipping when required, you are refunded.
If you can show that the item has been delivered back to him, you will be refunded.

And that's just eBay's rather short Money Back Guarantee window.

With Paypal, you have Buyer Protection for 180 days from payment.

The system is basically the same, but PP insists that the buyer always pays return shipping.

When  you can show that the item has been delivered back to him, you will be refunded.

You may also be protected by the chargeback policies of your credit card.

[reallynicestamps]

Canadian sellers have to deal with high postal rates for tracking.

As a result we are very aware of the risks in shipping without tracking.

Most people are honest.

The international postal system is very good at its job.

And we build the cost of the occasional claim into our selling prices.

Chinese seller do the same.

Some ship cheap items by Surface and untracked.

They write off the occasional loss against the successful deliveries plus the buyers who don't make Claims either because they forgot their purchase or because the item is too cheap to do anything about.

[mcrlmn]

"Have any of you experienced this and what have you done"

Yup. Sold several Canada 'A Historic Reign' $20 bills a couple of years ago, until I got the message, "sent me back my money or i leave you a negative feedback and nobody will again buy a item from you!" followed by a INR claim. Yes, I kept his address and message.

This fella is long gone from eBay, and I don't sell $20 legal tender anymore.

Lesson learned.