Can I Please Get Some Help Re SNAD Case?

[jakeeangel]

Hi all,

I've never had a SNAD case filed on me before. I have a Canadian buyer who bought a Windows 7 Vista Upgrade from me and he's claiming it's not new, that it's been opened and reshrink wrapped, the serial number has been cut etc.

This guy asked me a question prior to buying and I wanted to block him but didn't. Stupid, I know. Miscommunication between the hubby and I. He pulled one of those 'do what you want' statements and usually that means I don't agree with you and don't want to argue with you so whatever. lol I tried to be nice and didn't block to acquiesce him. This guy bought and has now filed a claim. *sigh*

I know for a fact the product is legit. It is brand new. It has not been reshrink wrapped and the serial number is not cut.

Microsoft serial number stickers are on the outside of the thick clamshell case and are perforated in the middle to be able to be easily opened and still legible when done so. The outer packaging is then covered in plastic. I've seen many of these in the stores here and in the US. Mine is identical to them. Not all the stickers are perfectly aligned. It's off by a hair but you can see the perforations still intact.

I'm really upset about this. I'm sorry. I don't mean to whine but I really don't know what to do. I've emailed the guy a detailed explanation but PayPal only gives me a few options and 256 characters.

What do I do? I have recorded the serial number of the program on his invoice & I have copies of it. He's bought several of these Windows 7 upgrades. I don't know what he's pulling but he's filed a SNAD claim against me.

My options are:

Refund - which I'm not doing because there's no way in hades that he's getting his money and keeping the dang program too!
Deny refund and continue communication - only 256 characters not enough room to detail proof program is new & sealed
Escalate to Claim - which then does what?

What do I do?

I'd really appreciate some help here.

Thanks kindly,
Debbi

[pjcdn2005]

I don't know if this would help but since he has purchased a number of the same upgrade, I would phone paypal and they might be able to suggest something. If they look and the same buyer has placed other SNAD claims for the same product, maybe they will start looking into what he's doing?

If you have a receipt to show paypal where you purchased, that would show that it is legit.

[pjcdn2005]

((((Jakee)))))

[dipmicro]

Well, IMO you got a witness and you are lucky he is Canadian.

I'd offer the guy to walk away and never be heard of or talk to the police about the mail order fraud. I am sure value of several copies of Windows would qualify for their threshold.

These buyers are making eBay such a sewer as it is now. They need to be weeded out.

[coxengines]

Debbi,

Do a search and see what else he has bought the past 30 days. That should give you an idea of the scope of things.

Then, call him. If he has bought software from many ask him if they were all problems or just yours. That will make a scammer uncomfortable.

From an eBay/Paypal standpoint, your choices are limited. If there is no resolution during the phone call, escalate the claim. He will have to send back the merchandise and PP will issue a refund. He will initially win this one way or another anyhow, although PP does keep tabs on multiple claims.

You can then choose to take it up with PP if he sends back something different but it will be a lengthy process involving notarization.

They might reverse the decision down the road but if the fellow's PP account is empty you will still be left holding the bag. Paypal takes all claims at face value initially and only puts a stop to someone's account when the evidence is big.

Fell free to PM me his user ID and I'll gladly have a look and give you an opinion.

Cheers
Bernie

[dipmicro]

Bernie, problem with requesting RTS is they likely already made a copy and cut-out the serial number in consistency with their claim thus rendering the material worthless.

If Jakee is 100% positive the software was brand new and hubby can confirm, I'd simply confront the scammer cought in his lie. Either walk away and we forget about it or we invite the authorities.

We had a scammer like this. He chose to walk away and dropped the claim. I am pretty sure he will not try it soon.

[coxengines]

I agree Roman. What I am saying is that, from an eBay standpoint, the seller will be held in the wrong until proven otherwise.

If the buyer caves in, good. If not, the seller stands little chance unless he/she is a serious multiple offender.

Of course the seller stands to get garbage returned but, on the balance of probability, the seller will win this one initially, at least what concerns eBay & PP.

Bernie

[coxengines]

Debbi,

I replied to you message via our email client.

I would venture to guess that your buyer is not a scammer and I have outlined the reasons why in my email.

I suggest you follow my recommendations as that approach should be telling.

Good luck!
Bernie

[coxengines]

This guy asked me a question prior to buying

Just out of curiosity, what was the question?

Bernie

[jakeeangel]

"Bernie, problem with requesting RTS is they likely already made a copy and cut-out the serial number in consistency with their claim thus rendering the material worthless."

Yep! that's what I was expecting/dreading.


It worked out. Apparently they were able to either realize that I was telling them the truth or confirm with Microsoft that the serial number was valid. They closed the dispute, called me (but I was out), emailed me and left feedback.

I was pleasantly shocked but still recovering from the effects of being so upset about it. LOL (silly, I know)

I thought many of the same things you did Bernie regarding the OEM he bought and multiple computers needing their own copy. It is feasible but if you bought a legit copy wouldn't you then see the familiarity of the COA stickers? It all worked out in the end but I really don't like feeling left alone hung out to dry. LOL

As to the question they asked...LOL no, really, I'm sitting here actually laughing out loud LOL....The buyer asked about why they had to pay taxes plus I saw the multiple purchases for the same item and became concerned. LOL LOL LOL :^O

[coxengines]

Debbi,

I am glad it all worked out and I expected it to do so as per my email to you yesterday.

The buyer really did not come across as a scammer, is an established eBayer and software is not normally what he buys.

By closing the case, emailing and even calling you, the buyer has demonstrated his integrity. Good thing you did not go into this with the big guns (threats) as that might have netted you a neg.

Buyers are really nervous about buying software on-line and the slightest packaging inconsistency can trigger panic on their side. Sometimes, packaging between the same product sold in the USA and Canada can differ a bit.

Filing a SNAD is an overreaction from a seller perspective but, from a consumer perspective, often seen as their only remedy.

B.T.W. his question, although often ridiculed by sellers, is an understandable one for a consumer.

Again, glad it worked out!

Bernie

[dipmicro]

By closing the case, emailing and even calling you, the buyer has demonstrated his integrity. Good thing you did not go into this with the big guns (threats) as that might have netted you a neg.

I misunderstood the situation about cut serial number. My understanding was the buyer was given brand new clamshell retail package and they claimed cut-out S/N, while after re-reading the post now it seems it was just slightly misaligned from the factory.

Sorry for jumping the gun. Although it does not seem like it, I am usually very professional to customers, having my non-standard emails proof-read to take out any trace of sarcasm or arrogance and always give them every possible benefit of the doubt, but my first understanding of the post did not leave room for doubt ...

[coxengines]

Now, that's more like you, Roman. I was a bit surprised by your reaction... and now I understand 🙂

But again, I am Mr. Optimist and always try to see the good in customers until absolutely proven otherwise.

Bernie

[jakeeangel]

By closing the case, emailing and even calling you, the buyer has demonstrated his integrity. Good thing you did not go into this with the big guns (threats) as that might have netted you a neg.

Again, glad it worked out!

Bernie

I'm really glad it worked out too and no, I don't go go into things like that, making threats. I got his contact info but didn't get to call him before he called me. He said he just looked at it, it looked to him like the COA sticker was cut therefore not brand new and sealed and didn't touch it. I explained the way the COA's are and reiterated that it was new, I don't deceive my buyers because I wouldn't like being deceived, please look at my reputation, look at the Microsoft website to see a legit COA sticker compared to a fake one etc. I trust my suppliers but I still checked the item before I bought and again before I listed it because I would feel awful if I sold something that wasn't what I claimed it to be.

And I offered that after all that info, if he still wanted to return it he could at his expense but I did expect the item to be in the same condition I sent it to him in and with the same serial number that I recorded on the invoice for our records.

I'm hoping that after looking at all the things I pointed out to him that he saw it was legit. I then thanked him for calling me, sorry I missed him, thanked him for his email and for closing the case. I also told him that I understood completely his fears that he was just ripped off (which I do get) but I said that I would have appreciated a heads up and an email so I could possibly have helped alleviate his fears before having to resort to making a claim.

I was terrified and envisioning my business go down the tubes, my husband giving me heck 24/7 and all kinds of awful things. I also understand the tax question even though it bothers me because not everybody understands but I have it in my listings that Ontario residents pay 8% tax and then to be asked with multiple quesiton marks in the question.....to me it indicated an attitude that I don't like to deal with if I don't have to.

[jakeeangel]

Hi Dipmicro,

No, not that the whole serial number was cut out but that the sticker was cut in half crossways. (going east to west across the sticker)

Microsoft puts them like that on purpose. They are a wavy cut across the length of the sticker with perforations so that when the buyer opens the clamshell case the numbers on the sticker only tear at the perforation and can still be read on both halves of the clamshell case.

I don't think it'll let me post a link to the Microsoft site but there is a link on their site for How to tell a legit Microsoft COA and it shows it much better than I'm describing it.