eBay

kerstingunnel · ‎06-22-2013

Since 2009 I have been and am a VERY happy eBay buyer. The recent surge of US based eBay sellers partnering with GSP, however, has me scratch my head. From what I can tell, it postures to solve a completely non-existing problem while creating a very tangible and substantial one.

In the years I have been buying on eBay, a shipment to me from the US has NEVER ONCE been halted at the Canadian Border Agency to accrue charges of broker's fees, sales taxes and import charges. I have NOT PAID A CENT EVER in such charges for shipments originating from US based eBay sellers. Shipments can be halted, but in my own experience, they rarely, if ever, are.

For each and every purchase from a seller who is partnering with GSP, however, such charges are paid (probably in addition to monies paid to eBay and GSP for their hand in the arrangement) and paid substantially. In a typical eBay transaction an item won at $26 cost $11.50 to ship and $9.51 (!!!) in GSP import charges.

Postal rates have gone up steeply for international shipping recently, adding to the sudden increase in the cost of shipping to Canada..

EBay may not be able to influence US postal costs, but the GSP partnership with eBay vendors is definitely an area of eBay's direct control and prerogative.

I will not buy from an eBay business who partners with GSP.

This year we Canadians number 35 million people and I'm sure that there are many of them who LOVE eBay as much as I do. Since this is a substantial market, I think it would be exceedingly foolish and myopic of eBay to jeopardize it altogether by taking GSP on board. Several eBay sellers I have contacted say that if the partnership becomes mandatory, they will cease to offer their listings to Canadians. Some have tried to work with GSP and find immediately that it doesn't serve them or their Canadian customers well - they have subsequently backed out of the partnership. Many have figured out beforehand and on their own that it wouldn't be in their interest or that of their Canadian customers and they have not opted for bringing GSP on board. All sellers say that they are encouraged by eBay to partner with GSP.

Every seller I have discussed this issue with was under the impression that this a valuable service devised to streamline the buying process and solve existing problems for their Canadian customers. This is, then, patently untrue. If this is how eBay, against their better knowing, "sells" the GSP program to their vendors, eBay actively misleads them. If eBay is unaware of the real state of affairs in regards to import charges, it ought to look into the factual situation more diligently before making such a serious move. It appears to be a predatory and parasitic practise.

It seems, thus, that the arrangement benefits GSP, eBay and the coffers of Canada. It doesn't benefit eBay vendors or their Canadian customers. In the end, since we all coexist and are interdependent, if it chokes or severely affects the Canadian market, only GSP and the government of Canada come out the winners, not eBay, not eBay sellers, not Canadian eBay buyers.

Other US based on-line businesses are partnered with similar programs for shipping to Canadian customers, which is one of the reasons I always prefer to buy on eBay.

Why fix what works perfectly well without fixing?

pierrelebel · ‎08-18-2013

The rules governing PST in British Columbia are complex - more so since BC reverted to PST from HST.

However, cell phones and smart phones are clearly taxable both GST and PST under current rules:

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/topic/BED47DA4EBDBA60A5F28622B8B2E1451/uploads/whats_taxable_whats_...

When checking that listing I get results similar to yours (GST only in BC) while regular HST is charged elsewhere in Canada. I suspect it is a coding error by PB in this case.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-18-2013

No, marnotom........... I'm not standing standing on shaky ground when I say that there is nothing to debate regarding the GSP (for the items with no duty owing).

I know a bad deal when I see it.

pierrelebel · ‎08-18-2013

"I say that there is nothing to debate"

You have the right to your opinion and most readers will respect that.

However, if you really feel there is nothing to debate since you "hate" the program, let others who look at GSP with an open mind debate it. You obviously - by your own words - have nothing further to contribute on the subject. Based on your posts, you used GSP once and it was a satisfactory transaction. So let it be and move on.

Freedom of expression includes freedom to remain silent. Most readers will respect that.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-18-2013

Pierre: You always misquote me. An altered word here, and slight change there.................. and the meaning of what was initially posted gets altered............. As you know.

I'm not saying you're doing it intentionally, but when you do it consistently it starts to look that way.........

When I quote someone I always cut and paste. It avoids mistakes......... I recommend it........

pierrelebel · ‎08-18-2013

Full quote : "I'm not standing standing on shaky ground when I say that there is nothing to debate regarding the GSP (for the items with no duty owing)."

My comments remain exactly the same, not one iota different. My conclusion remains the same.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-18-2013

Exactly............... that's better.

If you have any doubts then do a modified version of what I do.

Over the course of the next two weeks buy 20 items which do not require duty but are all priced over $20 Canadian.

Buy 10 shipped via the GSP and 10 shipped the normal way without the GSP with First Class Shipping.

I'm fussy about shipping costs so I buy items shipped with First Class shipping. In my case that means $8-$12/item (but that will var with weight) and that is very doable even for items valued at $1,000+.

After the items have all arrived compare your landed cost for shipping plus taxes (not item cost) between the two groups:

One group shipped with the GSP adn the other shipped without the GSP.

Then tell me how you can say that the GSP isn't a bad deal for the buyer?

pierrelebel · ‎08-18-2013

"20 items which do not require duty but are all priced over $20 Canadian."

???

When you write "duty" do you in fact mean consumption sales tax (GST/HST/PST) ?

As you know there is no "duty" on most items imported from the USA. The issue is already complex and efforts should be made to minimize confusion.

As far as items imported by mail with a value of $20.00 and more, the rules are very clear: consumption taxes are payable by the importer (buyer) in addition to a $9.95 administration charge levied by Canada Post (handling charge or brokerage fee).

Do not take my word for it:. From the government of Canada official website: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/duty-droits-eng.html

To suggest or imply in your post that items priced over $20 "do not require duty" is misleading. By law, taxes have to be levied and collected. The reality that some (many? most?) parcels coming by mail go through Canada Customs without taxes being levied is a fact of life but does not justify the assertion "do not require duty".

As I have stated many times, I do not think GSP is good for most transactions by most Canadian buyers. I do not know why you continue to argue the point. You "hate" the program. Your choice. Avoid listings offering it and move on.

As you stated, in your opinion there is "nothing to debate". Why don't you take your own advise and stop debating. Let posters who have an open mind of the subject continue the debate.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-18-2013

Well.......... then OK. I was under the impression that some new items required duty payments when imported while used items do not.

Taxes and duty are the same thing? OK.. (Really?) I'll go with that if you say so since it's not important anyway............. minor issue........... as far as the experiment goes.

However........... the rest holds..................

Then just do the experiment with any item then if duty and taxes are the same thing.

Buy 10 shipped via the GSP and 10 shipped without the GSP via First Class mail.

Compare the cost of shipping plus taxes paid upon arrival and don't include item cost in the analyses.

That type of hands on approach will give a good understanding of whether or not the GSP is a good deal for the buyer.

pierrelebel · ‎08-18-2013

"if duty and taxes are the same thing."

???

Can you read?

pierrelebel · ‎08-18-2013

"Then just do the experiment"

Why would I bother? I already stated numerous times that GSP is not a suitable program for most transactions by most Canadian buyers.

Also I am really puzzled by your aversion at paying GST/HST. Considering your many posts indicating you are a large buyer of expensive collectible items on eBay and elsewhere for resale, presumably at a profit, are you not registered with GST/HST as required by law? Then the GST/HST charged at time of Customs clearance is irrelevant to you as it is fully refunded through ITC.

If you are not GST/HST registered, I strongly recommend you consult a competent accountant familiar with your personal circumstances to guide you through the process. Even if your worldwide annual revenue is under $30,000, there are many advantages at being registered if a large portion of your sales is exported - as you have often claimed in your posts.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-18-2013

Yes, I can read. Thank You.

If it makes it easier then just ignore the part about the duty.

I simply added that because I suspect that items which require duty payments may be processed differently than items which require only taxes.

(BTW.......... Duty and taxes are not the same, but since it's not important let's just ignore that little qualifier.......... Shall we?)

I just wanted to keep the experiment as simple as possible.

Do it with 20 items of your choice............ no restrictions.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-18-2013

OMG Pierre: My finances and paperwork are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.................. Now, are they???

My financial advisor and accountant deal with those issues just fine.

Not something I care much for.

I pay them well for those services.

I've already stated above that I might support the government collecting taxes on all items over $20 as they have the legal right to do.

I am not necessarily adverse to that.

The P-B GSP shipping is not the same animal.

The GSP uses the fact that governments collect taxes and duty on imported items to get a foot in the door, but they are not about making things right with the governments of the world.

They saw a business opportunity, and they took it.

Nothing more.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎08-18-2013

I've already posted my opinions on this subject in regards to my category.

It may work for some & some it may not.

Am I ticked that a unique item i am interested in includes the GSP, You Betcha, but what can i do.

Have always adopted the philosophy, One Door Closes, Another Door Opens.

Some sellers in my category use the GSP for protection as thay have taken advantage of.. Their choice & I can understand that.

As for extra charges crossing the border sans GSP, In all my years of buying i can honestly say i have been charged extra fees less than five times. Some of those items are well over a hundred dollars.

Of course i haven't bought much in the last year but that is usually due to the increase in USPS Rates.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-18-2013

@bb_cool_stuff wrote:

As for extra charges crossing the border sans GSP, In all my years of buying i can honestly say i have been charged extra fees less than five times. Some of those items are well over a hundred dollars.

That s something I don't like to post publicly but since you did............... I will too.

That number is about right for me too: Five to ten and items arrive almost daily and some are over $1,000.

I can't control the system......... but it just seems "off" enough not to post it publicly. No laws are being broken and it's not a choice.......... but still.

The reason i suggested a hands on experience is because it seems that some posters just don't really get the way the system operates in real life.

We all know the law by now ........ but since the law is not enforced what is the point of posting links?

Perhaps it's time to change the law. ($20 in 2013.............. does that make sense?)

When someone states that pointing out that the GSP is a bad deal for buyers is about avoiding taxes, ...............

That is so far off the mark..

There is no avoidance on anyone's part. It's not a choice.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎08-18-2013

From what i recall on earlier posts a lot have not been charged extra fees in the past but have been since the New Year.

If i happen to be charged extra fees on International Shipments it is no big deal.

I always try to factor in the Total Price including extra fees for resale.

If it works for me fine, if it doesn't , another one will be listed. If one is not relisted, another unique item will be listed.

By that time I've usually forgotten about the initial item i was interested in.

That is why i enjoy the Saved Searches option.

marnotom! · ‎08-18-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:

The GSP uses the fact that governments collect taxes and duty on imported items to get a foot in the door, but they are not about making things right with the governments of the world.

They saw a business opportunity, and they took it.

You say that as though it's a bad thing. 😉

Seriously, though, isn't that what most sellers on eBay do: find a niche or need and try to fill it? I don't think most eBay sellers think they're trying to solve problems with government revenue streams. They're here to earn money and make a living. Corporations do so on a much larger scale.

Keep in mind that Canada Post--a crown corporation, at that--until recently owned a similar service called BorderFree. Would you have the same qualms about the GSP if it were owned by all Canadians rather than being an operation of a U.S. corporation?

i*m-still-here · ‎08-18-2013

The GSP i's clearly a VERY good thing for P-B. Very good Capitalists that they are............... but they are getting paid for making transactions more difficult and getting away with it very nicely.

Good for their customers? Not so much............... in fact, for buyers: ........ not at all.

The point is that they're using the tax issue to get a foot in the door but it has nothing to do with the ethics of paying or not paying taxes.

However, evaluating the service gets clouded because it somehow becomes about tax avoidance and it has NOTHING to do with that.

......... and yes, I did consider the fact that P-B is American owned and Yes......... I'd have the same qualms about if it were Canadian.

There's something very sleazy about taking people's money and giving nothing of value (or in the case of the GSP less than nothing) in return.

marnotom! · ‎08-18-2013

Bacon isn't good for any of us. Should we prevent Maple Leaf Foods from manufacturing it or Loblaw's from selling it?

Orange juice gives me the runs. Should I stop all people from using it just because a relative handful of people such as myself can't absorb fructose properly, even though it may have value for others?

i*m-still-here · ‎08-18-2013

@marnotom! wrote:
Bacon isn't good for any of us. Should we prevent Maple Leaf Foods from manufacturing it or Loblaw's from selling it?

Orange juice gives me the runs. Should I stop all people from using it just because a relative handful of people such as myself can't absorb fructose properly, even though it may have value for others?

OK.... so I'm gonna go out on a limb here:

No to the first question. If people want to eat Bacon and turn into Porkers then that is their choice.

Yes to the second question. We should make Orange Juice illegal.

Now, back to the GSP.