Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

Listening to CNN today, it seems that the fiscal cliff is inevitable.


The Republicans are living up to their promise to work with the President.  Unfortunately, their idea of working with the President seems to be our way or the highway.


They want to have tax increases balanced with strategic spending cuts.  Well, maybe not so much tax increases as a removal or reduction in certain tax deductions.  They want spending cuts.  But, they want to cut medicare and social security.  Those are two of the key platform items that got Romney elected - NOT!


Obama has proposed a plan that gives a balance of tax increases and spending cuts.  Now the Republicans want to see exactly where these increases and cuts will take place - each and every one - before they start talking with the President. 


The Republicans are ignoring the fact that a significant proportion of the people (72%) believe that tax increases are necessary to avoid the fiscal cliff.  They continue to play politics with the future of the U.S. - and the rest of us as well. 


When questioned by CNN anchors, the Republicans refuse to answer any questions.  They just spout the same message over and over. 


Hey guys, you lost.  Get over it and do something right for a change. 

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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

I often wonder why politicians can’t work together for the country (no matter which one it is) rather than fight. I find it hard to believe that all Republicans or Democrats or Liberals and Conservatives are actually totally opposed to everything that is suggested to be done. To me it seems like politicians have more in their mind the idea of defeating the other party and taking over power, rather than what is good for the citizens. It’s a game of chess and the ‘people’ are the pawns.


That’s one of the reasons I think there should be an end to ‘party’ politics.





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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

valve37
Community Member

The fiscal cliff is nothing compared to:


The Coming Derivatives Panic That Will Destroy Global Financial Markets



http://www.silverstackerhaven.com/index.php?/topic/1875-the-coming-derivatives-panic-that-will-destr...

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
Message 22 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

Valve, it looks like someone behind the video on the link you sent is trying to sell underground bunkers, multi-year supplies of freeze-dried food, good land in northern Idaho and sundry post-apocalyptic survival paraphernalia.



You might want to jump on board with global warming before buying into all this stuff 🙂



Message 23 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

valve37
Community Member

Art, before all that ice melts you should get yours or have you already secured one?

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
Message 24 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

This video uses synthetized computer voice. I already heard it before somewhere. Wondering which program is this, because the voice is pretty good.

Message 25 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

UPDATE from the Wall Street Journal (December 18):


 


WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama backed away from his long-standing call for raising tax rates on households making more than $250,000 a year, a development that inches the White House and congressional Republicans closer to a budget deal.


 


Mr. Obama's move, a counter to Republicans' recent proposal to raise tax rates on income over $1 million, further narrows the differences between the two sides. During a meeting with House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio) Monday the president proposed allowing Bush-era tax rates to expire for households making more than $400,000 in annual income, people familiar with the meeting said.


 


After weeks of public sniping, negotiations have intensified in recent days, with both sides making significant concessions. Obstacles still remain, especially the reaction of lawmakers on both extremes, but the movement suggests negotiators could reach a compromise and pass by the end of the year a deal to avert a series of spending cuts and tax increases set to take effect in January.


 


Aides to Mr. Boehner called the offer "a step in the right direction" but said it asks for too much tax revenue and not enough spending cuts. "We hope to continue discussions with the president so we can reach an agreement that is truly balanced and begins to solve our spending problem," said Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck.


 


The White House offer marks a major shift for the president—Mr. Obama since his first run for the White House has campaigned to allow Bush-era tax rates to expire for households making above $250,000—and raises the question of whether he will be able to sell such a deal to his own party.


 


As part of the offer, the president lowered the amount of tax revenue he is seeking in a deal from $1.4 trillion to $1.2 trillion. He also agreed to accept a GOP proposal to slow Social Security growth by using a different inflation formula to calculate cost-of-living increases, people familiar with he matter said.


 


One potential stumbling block is a White House request to raise the nation's borrowing limit for two years, something Republicans are likely to oppose. Mr. Obama's offer also calls for increased spending for infrastructure, a temporary extension of unemployment insurance benefits and a permanent extension of other tax breaks that expire at the end of the year.


 


The president's offer notably didn't include a Republican proposal to increase the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67, and his proposed change to Social Security would include protections for beneficiaries of the program deemed "most vulnerable," people familiar with the talks said. Many Democrats are against both ideas.


 


Another notable change in the White House's newest offer was the removal of a push to extend the payroll tax cut. The change means the amount of tax paid by virtually all earners next year will increase. A temporary payroll tax cut had been in place the past two years in an effort to help boost the economy, and it expires Dec. 31.


 


A Democratic official familiar with the talks said Mr. Obama's offer could pass the Senate but would still be a "tough sell'' within the party because of the Social Security proposal and the retreat from the $250,000 income threshold on tax increases.


 


The White House offer caps several days that have seen major retreats on both sides—Mr. Boehner's offer to raise tax rates and Mr. Obama's abandoning his $250,000 income threshold. So far neither side has seen a significant break in ranks, suggesting at least for now lawmakers are willing to follow their leaders.


 


Rep. Tom Rooney (R., Fla.) said he and most other Republicans would likely follow Mr. Boehner in accepting higher tax rates if Democrats committed to overhauling safety-net programs in a serious way.


 


"When I heard about [the latest GOP offer], it felt for the first time in a long time like there might be a light at the end of the tunnel regarding how we do business up here," Mr. Rooney said.


 


Mr. Obama will have to convince Democrats to swallow such cuts. Mr. Boehner meanwhile will have to prevent his conservative rank and file from rebelling against his decision to go along with a rate increase and also allow the debt limit to rise.


 


"I won't support a deal that raises taxes because it makes the economy worse," Steve Scalise (R., La.), chairman of the Republican Study Committee, made up of conservative House Republicans, "But I have yet to see any formal plan."


 


Senior White House officials have been reaching out to liberals for whom entitlement cuts could be as painful as tax increases are to conservatives, and Mr. Obama has checked in with Democratic congressional leaders as his talks with Mr. Boehner progress.


 


Many Democrats oppose the Social Security idea Mr. Obama has agreed to include. "The Republican plan to cut the Social Security benefits of millions of seniors in order to protect tax breaks for the richest 2% in America is neither fair nor balanced,'' said California Rep. Xavier Becerra, a member of the House Democratic leadership.


 


White House officials believe their new offer represents $1.2 trillion in new taxes and $1.22 trillion in spending reductions over 10 years, a ratio they say meets the balance target Mr. Obama set out during the campaign.

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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

Certain replies have been cented....Beware

Message 28 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

House leader John Boehner's motion to accept a deal that he supports (different from the President's proposal) did not even come to a vote tonight.  There was no support.  Republicans are not prepared to support any tax increases. 


This is a setback for the House leader as it is believed that he intended the vote to show the President that he (Boehner) had House support for his proposal.  Now, there is some question as to the ability of Obama and Boehner to come to any kind of compromise deal. 


Seems silly on the part of the Republicans.  Should the fiscal cliff occur, automatic tax increases will kick in.  Of course, they all took this dumb pledge years ago to hold the line on taxes and they refuse to compromise that pledge.

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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable


Certain replies have been cented....Beware




That makes no cense, but I'll play along and beware anyway.

Message 30 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

'Republicans are not prepared to support any tax increases. '


 


Actually, the problem is not with "Republicans" as such but with that small vocal extreme right minority from the Tea Party who signed a pledge of no tax increase.


 


Politically, they prefer to see the fiscal cliff wirth automatic tax increase so they can vote next month for tax decrease from the higher level (Clinton era level)


 


Politics.  Nothing but politics.


 


I expect the Tea Party to be wiped out at the 2014 Congressional election.

Message 31 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

Actually, the problem is not with "Republicans" as such but with that small vocal extreme right minority from the Tea Party who signed a pledge of no tax increase.


 


This web site lists the number of Republicans and Democrats who signed the pledge.  It certainly doesn't appear to be a small number.


 


http://www.atr.org/taxpayer-protection-pledge

Message 32 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

The problem is not just the pledge.  It is the fact the Tea Party members refuse to consider any flexibility about it.


 


From the Tea Party website:


 


http://www.teaparty.org/house-gop-calls-off-vote-on-boehners-plan-b-17524/ 


 


 

Message 33 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

Even though Obama is meeting tomorrow to try to resolve the fiscal cliff issue, the pundits on CNN are predicting that the U.S. will go over the fiscal cliff.


The reasoning:


- on the Democrats side, if they go over the cliff, they don't have to make a lot of compromises that they do not like.  The American public will blame the Republicans for failing to bend in order to resolve the issue.  In the new year, any tax cuts to be made will no longer be the Bush tax cuts - they will be the Obama tax cuts.


- on the Republicans side, if they allow the fiscal cliff to happen, they will not have to vote to raise taxes and break the pledge that they made.  This seems to be the major sticking point for Republicans.  None of them want to be the FIRST Republican to break the pledge.

Message 34 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

In simple terms, BOTH parties realize the USA cannot continue to run annual deficits exceeding one trillion dollars.


 


At least 400 to 600 billion dollars have to be trimmed from the deficit.


 


While both parties agree that the solution is to increase revenue and lower expenses, the Democrats favour mostly revenue increases while the Republicans favour mostly spending reduction. 


 


So far, it has been impossible for the Republicans to identify specifically what spending reductions they want - that would be political suicide.  They expect the White House and the Democrats to idenfify the spending cuts.


 


It is a typical Catch-22

Message 35 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

"CNN today, it seems that the fiscal cliff is inevitable."


 


As predicted earlier, CNN was wrong and the "fiscal cliff" has been avoided.


 


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/fiscal-cliff-deal-world-markets-celebrate-certainty-12112948... 


 


Of course it does not mean that the US fiscal problems have been solved. Far from it.  This first step increased revenues slightly.  Tough decisions still have to be made to increase revenues even more and - that will be the tough part - cut spending without affecting the American economy.


 


Considering the extreme partisan atmosphere in Washington ("us vs them" or "we're right they're wrong") Congress faces many challenges in the next few months.


 


And whatever decisions they reach will affect Canadians and the Canadian economy.

Message 36 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

As predicted earlier, CNN was wrong and the "fiscal cliff" has been avoided.



Seems more like it has just been delayed.

Message 37 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

valve37
Community Member

Naw, they've always gone to the precipice and then backed off.

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
Message 38 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

"Seems more like it has just been delayed."


 


Many problems have been shelved for a few months.


 


However, the "fiscal cliff" as such - represented mostly by the elimination of the "Bush tax cuts" scheduled to end December 31st unless extended has been fixed permanently.


 


The new law makes the tax rate cuts permanent for 98%+ of Americans.  Only the very high income earners will see their tax rate revert to the Clinton era level.


 


As stated earlier, most other problems related to more tax revenue (tax reform - closing loopholes for corporate tax) and reducing expenditures have yet to be addressed.  Solutions will be painful.


 


Congress also has to address the so-called "debt ceiling" legislation within six to eight weeks. Lots of bitching - from both sides - yet to come!

Message 39 of 45
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Fiscal Cliff May Be Inevitable

valve37
Community Member

"Seems more like it has just been delayed."



Yes, merely a technical achievment. Something perhaps the markets don't realize at this morning. Get ready to short!

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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