eBay

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-22-2014

Using firefox or chrome, on ebay.ca, I searched for a battery for a camera np-bx1. Once I narrowed the category down to Cameras and photos >camera and photo accessories>batteries, I click on price+shipping lowest.

Under 'default' for area search, the lowest price that shows up for me is from China and is $7.65

I thought this was strange as I had bought the same battery a couple weeks earlier for 5.50.

I searched and scrolled through the list and could not find it cheaper.

Then went into my purchase history and there is the purchase, and the seller is still active, selling the same battery for the same price.

So I go back to the ebay search and filter it to North America only, and guess what? It showed up and now the lowest price is $5.48

I have had this happen many times and I believe that ebay is actively filtering listings based on their own criteria and own motives and are not providing sellers with an honest show of their listings and as a consequence are causing buyers to pay more.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-22-2014

What toby is saying does make sense. In this case, when you did a regular search it did not take into account listings on the UK site which is not unusual.

When the search called for items in North America only, there were many less listings that qualified so listings from the UK site (located in North America) were taken into account. Since most North Americans list on .com or .ca, I can't imagine the same thing happening that often.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-22-2014

dream on pierre.

explain in detail why shipping + lowest price does not actually get shipping + lowest price.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-22-2014

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
What toby is saying does make sense. In this case, when you did a regular search it did not take into account listings on the UK site which is not unusual.

When the search called for items in North America only, there were many less listings that qualified so listings from the UK site (located in North America) were taken into account. Since most North Americans list on .com or .ca, I can't imagine the same thing happening that often.

that makes absolutely no sense.

If I am in Canada and it ships to me, then it should show up.

Why would UK listings show up because there are less listings? Both China and the UK ship to Canada. Why does China get priority under one search and UK under the other? Especially when it's North America?

I would add too, that I didn't notice that when you click 'default' it filters out those listings, but shows them when you choose North America, and also show when you click Worldwide.

this suggests that the 'default' is not really searching all the listings that are available.

pierrelebel · ‎09-22-2014

Maybe Toby who has a much better understanding of the search engine can explain to you.

tobyshitzu · ‎09-22-2014

Because if it wasn't like that .ca and .com would be flooded with tons of stuff no one wanted to buy. THe last time they really changed search results they put tons of items from .fr in the default .ca result. Things like games that wouldn't work here or electronics no one here would ever buy from France. It was very annoying until they took them out. That was a very rare example you found of the uk listing being cheaper, available to here, and the seller doesn't have an equivalent .com listing

The china and singapore located items were listed on .com. If the american seller had listed his uk item on .com it would show up. If the chinese listed on .uk it wouldn't show up as default or N american

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-22-2014

@pierrelebel wrote:
Maybe Toby who has a much better understanding of the search engine can explain to you.

it's not hard to understand.

What is happening is that when you use the 'default' search setting and search for an item and then sort by PRICE and SHIPPING lowest it is not actually giving you the price + shipping lowest that it says it is.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-22-2014

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
Because if it wasn't like that .ca and .com would be flooded with tons of stuff no one wanted to buy. THe last time they really changed search results they put tons of items from .fr in the default .ca result. Things like games that wouldn't work here or electronics no one here would ever buy from France. It was very annoying until they took them out. That was a very rare example you found of the uk listing being cheaper, available to here, and the seller doesn't have an equivalent .com listing

then why does it show up when I search in the category 'north america' and 'worldwide' but does not show up when I search under the 'default'

The answer is because ebay is actively filtering it out.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-22-2014

No. The answer is that default is for listings that were done on .com and .ca. The default has never shown all the listings that were available. On some searches you will see a separate category near the bottom that shows international sellers.....those listings are from other sites and even then, it doesn't show all of the international listings.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-22-2014

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
No. The answer is that default is for listings that were done on .com and .ca. The default has never shown all the listings that were available.

so why do UK listings show in North America?

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-22-2014

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
No. The answer is that default is for listings that were done on .com and .ca. The default has never shown all the listings that were available. On some searches you will see a separate category near the bottom that shows international sellers.....those listings are from other sites and even then, it doesn't show all of the international listings.

crickets on my previous question. Maybe you can explain why some UK listings are showing in the default when you specifically say:

The answer is that default is for listings that were done on .com and .ca.

See attached picture:

4th pic down. GBP so I am assuming this was listed on UK.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-22-2014

crickets.

drucecat · ‎09-22-2014

@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:
@pjcdn2005 wrote:
froogle, I get the same results as you do and I agree that when you search lowest price + shipping first you should see all of the listings starting at the one that is the lowest with shipping.
YES!!!!! Finally someone agrees.

I realize that under ebay's mystical 'best match' or maybe under other searches there may be a justification , however weak, for a listing to not show up, but when you search lowest price, you expect the lowest price.

Do buyers know what ebay is doing?

Is this fair for anyone but ebay?

I think people who are defending ebay's actions by saying it's history and cookies, if you were treated this way in a store where you specifically asked the clerk for the less expensive item and they intentionally gave you a more expensive one, you would be upset.

It's not a bit wrong, but totally wrong.

It's not a matter of cookies, search history or anything. It's the exact same item sold by different sellers.

The issue, aside from it being dishonest, is how much manipulation is going on? I am starting to think a lot.

froogal I total agree with you.

The search engine has been seriously broken for at least two years. I actually started a post to this effect, but I ran into a huge amount of opposition. Very similar to what you are experiencing with this post.

Or, I had advice, like use Google to search for what you want to buy on eBay, as you get better results. Beg your pardon - Google gives better results than eBay - and people didn't think the search engines on eBay were broken. After I stopped smacking my head into the wall, I gave-up.

How's that Google search strategy work for you now?

I've been a member since 1998 and I used to buy a lot of things on eBay, but most of my items are now purchased on other sites, as I get really frustrated when I can't find what I am looking for before I go through many items (sometimes pages) that I'm not looking for.

I suspect that a lot of the items I list can't be found by others either. I've had popular items listed correctly, that just do not show, except by the most obscure of searches.

In the past, I have phoned customer service to inquire why I couldn't find my item. Customer service couldn't find them either. When I told them how to find them, there was no explanation - just a suggestion to cancel the listing and rewrite it so it would show-up.

And yet, no one seems to care, that the search engines are dancing to a different drummer.

drucecat · ‎09-23-2014

A quick example of what I'm talking about.

Search for a movie DVD/Blu-Ray called Dragon in the DVDs & Movies category. Use Best Match.

At the time this is written you get 11,397 results. And, only one of the results on the first page is correct.. And, it's the twelfth item returned.

Now, to refine the search a little, if you search for Dragon 2013, you get 115 results, about one-third of which are correct.

Please explain away these brilliant results.

Why should a buyer require a degree in how to search in order to find the item? Very few buyers are going to think of adding 2013 to improve their results. And, if you didn't find this movie on the first page, which will often be the case given the 11,387 to 33% of115 ratio, how would you know to search with 2013?

How would you like to be a seller of this gem? What are the odds?

Incidentally. a search on Amazon for Dragon in Movie & TV produces this movie in it's top 3 results.

I can repeat this type of result over and over again. Why wouldn't a new buyer simply give-up and use a freindlier sight?

treasure.hunter.d · ‎09-23-2014

froogal, I am in complete agreement as well. Ebay is manipulating search results to their own ends but perhaps even worse or at least as bad, they are also not removing listings that flagrantly violate the rules by seeding inappropriate keywords or that are purposefully miscategorized to manipulate search results.

Combine all of that and it's a recipe that has some seller's items (mine included in some cases) buried to the point they will never be seen. Why am I paying for a store and working my tail off to maintain my TSR?

I just spent a month fighting with Ebay over all of this and ended up with no positive outcome. Frustrating to say the least. I'm taking a break to cool down and then I am going after them again.

This isn't right and it MUST be stopped!

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-23-2014

@drucecat wrote:
A quick example of what I'm talking about.

Search for a movie DVD/Blu-Ray called Dragon in the DVDs & Movies category. Use Best Match.

At the time this is written you get 11,397 results. And, only one of the results on the first page is correct.. And, it's the twelfth item returned.

Now, to refine the search a little, if you search for Dragon 2013, you get 115 results, about one-third of which are correct.

Please explain away these brilliant results.

Why should a buyer require a degree in how to search in order to find the item? Very few buyers are going to think of adding 2013 to improve their results. And, if you didn't find this movie on the first page, which will often be the case given the 11,387 to 33% of115 ratio, how would you know to search with 2013?

How would you like to be a seller of this gem? What are the odds?

Incidentally. a search on Amazon for Dragon in Movie & TV produces this movie in it's top 3 results.

I can repeat this type of result over and over again. Why wouldn't a new buyer simply give-up and use a freindlier sight?

This is yet more proof that ebay is not searching based on a customers desires, but by their own admittedly proprietary search criteria.

I am not sure why the apologists cannot fathom that with a secret search engine the ebay couldn't, wouldn't use that search to provide the maximum benefit to themselves.

Your search example I think is understood that ebay's preferences take precedence over the buyers, just as in my example.

Whereas a search on google for the movie would produce a more correct result.

I would think the reason is as follows. The ebay search based on their own requirements which includes placing other sellers with similarly titled items higher due to their ranking in ebay whereas the google search would provide a better match due to previous searches of the item and IT's relevance and the BUYERS preference. Since most people searching for a dragon movie would be looking for the most recent one, Google chooses the correct one (for most) and Ebay chooses the one that suits EBAYs interest most.

I had a very similar item search that was explained away by the apologists but mine was in reverse. I had an old fujifilm J10 camera that did not show up in listings. It was about 5 pages back. All the other listings were for a new model Nikon J1 with a 10-30mm lens.

Of course, this too was explained as a 'glitch' or a one off, or a rarity.

I don't go searching (no pun intended) for these issues. They come to me. I am looking for something, and then something has changed from the last search.

An annoying part of the apologists is that they start from the point of view, that you are wrong. That's what makes them apologists. Secondly, every time an issue is brought up, they use rehashed statements to discredit the person. This is a tactic used by shills.

All I know is that when you run across multiple search discrepancies that do no appear logical and do not follow the stated goal of the search then you have to believe that the search is being manipulated for other reasons.

tobyshitzu · ‎09-23-2014

There are a few single word title media items, that are a small minority of the listings returned for that word, that are very hard to find. For a while ebay changed media results to amzn style, where there was only one entry per title, so it was much easier to find them. But people complained about other issues with that (drove prices down for sellers and killef auctions) and it was rare case where ebay completely reversed the change. It works as ebay intends it to be, there are very few like "dragon"

no doubt amzn search and their ability to customize results for the specific buyer is far advanced of ebay. But still lots to whine about there, amzn just suddenly booted piles of small time movie sellers off the site completely. They demanded proof of purchase from a legit source of purchase for anyone selling them with an msrp over $25 to deal with fakes. Anyone who couldn't provide it can't sell there now.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-23-2014

@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:
@pjcdn2005 wrote:
No. The answer is that default is for listings that were done on .com and .ca. The default has never shown all the listings that were available. On some searches you will see a separate category near the bottom that shows international sellers.....those listings are from other sites and even then, it doesn't show all of the international listings.
crickets on my previous question. Maybe you can explain why some UK listings are showing in the default when you specifically say:

The answer is that default is for listings that were done on .com and .ca.

See attached picture:

4th pic down. GBP so I am assuming this was listed on UK.

You're right so obviously my statement isn't correct but I do believe that for the most part, lowest cost + shipping default does show listings that were done on .com and .ca. although they do throw in some international listings. I have no idea how they pick those listings.

Does lowest price plus shipping on the default mode show all of the listings that were done on those 2 sites? I don't know. I would think that they should show them all but obviously nothing is ever for certain here.

Should the default for lp + shipping be worldwide.....I agree that it does make sense to give buyers the choice of buying the total lowest price from anywhere in the world. Perhaps someone else knows why they don't do that and if its possible. After all, we don't even know if the worldwide mode shows 100% of the related listings.

ebay hasn't made it a secret that some listings will not be seen all of the time but I think that more of us expect to see that on best match, not on all of the search options.

I'm certainly not a big fan of the way search has changed in the last few years and have never suggested that it is perfect or even that it works well. Because I sell more here than I buy, I tend to see it more from a seller's point of view but realize that search should be based on what buyers want to see.

btw...regarding your crickets comments...you do realize that someone may post and then not be back here for hours or until the next day?

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-23-2014

You're right so obviously my statement isn't correct but I do believe that for the most part, lowest cost + shipping default does show listings that were done on .com and .ca. although they do throw in some international listings. I have no idea how they pick those listings.

As I said in the beginning, Ebay is filtering listings according to their own criteria / benefit. I too thought this meant for best match, which itself is despicable (ie. telling buyers that the 'best item' for them is an overpriced seller, because of some search criteria )

Does lowest price plus shipping on the default mode show all of the listings that were done on those 2 sites? I don't know. I would think that they should show them all but obviously nothing is ever for certain here.

Should the default for lp + shipping be worldwide.....I agree that it does make sense to give buyers the choice of buying the total lowest price from anywhere in the world. Perhaps someone else knows why they don't do that and if its possible. After all, we don't even know if the worldwide mode shows 100% of the related listings.

ebay hasn't made it a secret that some listings will not be seen all of the time but I think that more of us expect to see that on best match, not on all of the search options.

That's my point :). Show me somewhere, ANYWHERE, where Ebay tells BUYERS that when they search for the lowest price, they may not be getting the lowest price, and that in fact, some listings may not even show up? For that matter, aside from some discussion, show me where Ebay tells the SELLER in plain english that some of their listings will not show.

btw...regarding your crickets comments...you do realize that someone may post and then not be back here for hours or until the next day?

the posts were coming fast and furious to discount what I was describing. The normal posse were quick to respond to all comments to shoot down the issue. Only when it was clearly pointed out that it wasn't searching as others described did the comments stop. There were 4 people commenting and then nothing. So the crickets comment. It's not a mean comment.

So some can decide is this a one off glitch or a special case? Or is it just a slip up that reveals a lot more going on that we don't see. There have been many 'glitches' from US sellers shipping not showing up, to US items being given priority over Canadian listings. We have numerous issues where searches are based on a different set of criteria that an average buyer would expect. And like you said, Ebay themselves have specifically stated that listings may not even show up. We have heard numerous times about sellers hitting a brick wall for no known reason they can think of.

Who knows how our listings show up in another country, or state, or location? There is no way for any one individual to 'know' what is happening.

I don't know for sure, but one thing I do know with 100% certainty is that no one else here knows either.

pocomocomputing · ‎09-23-2014

On eBay.ca, there is an option in the SYI to have international site visibility on the UK site. It costs from 10 to 30 cents depending on duration and format and this puts an eBay.ca listing in default search on eBay UK.

Do eBay UK sellers have the same option to show on eBay.com USA?

If so, that would explain why some UK sellers show on eBay.com regular search because they pay for it.

Update: I just checked eBay.com USA SYI form and they have the same option as eBay.ca Canada for international site visibility on eBay UK.

I will try to check eBay UK.

pocomocomputing · ‎09-23-2014

I logged into eBay.com.au Australia and eBay.co.uk UK site and checked the SYI form and no option for international site visibility. So not the reason why UK shows in default search on eBay.com or eBay.ca as far as I can tell.