kr!~~_7.JPG "pigdog47"){kind=avatar}
zW2Ig~~60_7.JPG "brandeentertainment"){kind=avatar}
Pierre. In the world of opinions and views, everyone believes theirs is right…or they wouldn’t be voicing them. You are no different and neither is anyone else.
When it comes to facts and knowledge, there are all ‘types’. There are written facts found in the media and those most people can take with a grain of salt depending on where it comes from.
Then there are the ‘facts’ in history books which of course are written most often by the ‘victors’….so in many cases they can be taken with another grain of salt unless verified by assorted means.
Then there are political/government facts….those get really tricky because they are often shrouded in mystery and a person would have to know for instance what some ‘seemingly’ straight forward Bill really means and now it affects some other Bill or Treaty that is conveniently not mentioned by the government. This is where people who are well educated on government laws and Bills come into the fray. Because of their knowledge they can look at a Bill just made in 2012 and immediately see that it has a detrimental effect on a Bill that was passed in 1940 or a Treaty from 1870. That’s where it gets really complicated. And do you trust governments? Seriously. If not then why should the Native people?
The Native people for instance are demonstrating against C-45. Harper knows their complaints..........so why doesn't he address them openly to the nation if he feels the Native people are wrong? How simple would that be!! I think he won't because:
a) He knows what he is trying to do and tried to sneak through...and....
b) He likes that because the full truth is not out there he is gaining support from his base supporters.
So when I do my research I start with the Native people who know what is happening from their point of view because of all people it affects them more. I sit and talk to them on two Reserves. I speak to the young and the elders. Then I take what they say and I check the Bills and the Treaties and any other information pertaining to specific items.
Then I go to other information from the people educated in these areas such as Native lawyers and Native leaders and people like Dr Palmater. I then take what they say and verify that. And yes I also read the news and the media and even others like Levant and I check to see if what they say is true or half-truths.
Then when it is added all up and verified and I have heard both sides….I make my judgement.
I think I do a reasonably good job making my decision. Even with all this hullabaloo about Spence and the money and the poorly kept books. I’m not defending her…and when someone suggested the RCMP should be called in I said “do it”! That’s the only way anyone is going to find out the ………truth... and end all the speculation and innuendoes one way or the other.
Oh and as far as biased or bigots go in the media. Well some are. Biased definitely….we are all ‘biased’ in a sense. It’s not a word I use often.
As for the bigots well some have a track record as long as a Canada Post truck (thought I would give you a measurement you could associate with) and others have admitted openly that they are…and as they have said …’proud of it’.
As for the remainder ….well a lot of people have no idea who they are. You should watch videos done by the renowned anti-racism teacher Jane Elliott. She has been doing it for about 40 years and has accreditations as long as that postal truck. She has done anti-racism lectures and seminars to show the racism against Black people and Native people in the US and she has done the same in Canada for Native people. You would be amazed at how many white people come into a seminar believing they have no prejudices, or bigotry in them and leave learning how much they really do have….and how much their actions or non-actions contribute to it.
Some people have deeply set bigotry in them and racism and on the opposite end of the scale there are those with just ‘a little’. But in between…..there are many shades of grey….and a lot of people hate having that mirror held up in front of them.
So yes….people have a right to their opinion including if it is different than mine or someone else’s and they have a right to express it in any form of media. Even Levant has a right. I have sat at tables with people in the Klan and people in the Nazi party and we have exchanged opinions. I have had dinner (twice) with the head of the Nazi party in Canada and even he never attacked me as I have been in other areas. I absolutely disagree with them and they know it!…but they still have the right. However as they have that right….I do as well. Strangely when I have talked to them and told them they are racists and bigots …….they agree. At least they get 10 points for honesty.
How one gets knowledge Pierre, real knowledge, is by putting on your boots and going out and talking to the people. Getting in there, getting their hands dirty, going in with an open mind and ignoring what you have been ‘told’ and learning from experience.
Were the people that now live on reserves also born in Canada? So your remarks would also apply to them.
True and far more. Their ‘Canada’ is theirs as Aboriginal people. Definition….” Inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times; indigenous.”.
The ‘conquerors’ for lack of a better term, have been here only 4 to 5 hundred years. Mid 1600’s Newfoundland was really settled and just a bit of trivia……the Native inhabitants were the Beothuck who no longer exist because they were murdered and at one point there was even a bounty on their heads like an animal.
She did not march in any protest today. She was at work so she could help make the house payment and feed the kids.
What does that mean? Not sure what you are getting at snikrep.
You said she is part Native. That’s nice, so am I.
(There will be people out there now saying “ah he’s biased”!! No not at all. I have said in here that I have some Native blood in me from a past generation. I do not identify myself as Native. If anything I identify myself as Irish. But first and foremost I identify myself as a human being of the world.)
Your last comment about her being at work to help make a house payment and feed the kids……what was that all about? Do you think other Natives don’t have jobs or don't have payments to make or don’t have kids to feed….and do both exceptionally well? I just don’t understand why you would mention that. If I missed something feel free to clarify for me.
It happens all the time. It is called expropriation….etc etc..
True and I disagree with that. Expropriation is an interesting thing because it shows that we truly don’t have freedom and when you get right down to it….you don’t really own anything.
But expropriation is different because the Natives have ‘treaties’ and in those treaties they are not bound by the laws made after them. This is why governments try and sneak through Bills that affect the Native people hoping no one will notice that a new Bill has an effect on the treaties. This is also probably why Spence and others insisted the Govenor General be at the meeting because he represents the Queen.
Explain free of charge.
It’s very simple. All of what you listed is you living in the world of the conquerors and their laws and rules and you’re paying them for the most part. It would be like you living in an apartment for 800 a month or living in another apartment for 3000 a month….you deal with the landlord. In this case the landlord is collecting rent on stolen land.
I suppose ‘free’ was not the best choice of words on my part.
Just the opposite. They fear the unknown. They fear that resolving the native crisis may "bring the Canadian ecnonmy to its knees" in more ways than one.
I think that selfishness and greed is definitely there, but you are also right when it comes to ‘fear’ and the ‘unknown’. It’s that herd thing I often talk about…..we ‘fear’ either openly or subconsciously those who are different from us.
As far as resolving the crisis may bring the Canadian economy to it’s knees …..I don’t understand that concept at all. Then you added “in more ways than one”….which adds to the mystery. How could that be? I’m very curious.
And of course those people, if they are native, have no biases and no prejudices and no bigotry.
Oh….sure they do and that is why I said …..’I then check out what they said’.
And would neve lie to promote their cause. And would never steal from or cheat another native. It is your blind faith in these people that makes me doubt …..
Certainly they might lie….again as I said (did you even read what I said?) I check out the information.
Steal from another Native…..well it’s happened sure but on Reserves it’s not a good thing. Ever heard of the word ‘ostracized’? You want to live in a small area where no one speaks to you?
I don’t know where you come up with this ‘blind faith’ concept!! Please show me where I have indicated that. Do you ever read my posts in full? I have said that I have been ripped off twice by two Native people. They are not unlike anyone else. But do I resent their race for that or paint them all with the same brush or want payback by seeing their people unjustly treated by governments or other people?…………….No.
I judge people by who they are as individuals and I ………don’t harbour resentments inside from the past nor let them sway my judgements.
The meeting with Harper is not the pot at the end of the rainbow. If you go into it demanding the world and threatening to bring the Canadian economy to its knees, you will find out that there is no pot at the end of the rainbow.
No one ever said anything about a pot or rainbow. No one ever indicated that, Natives included, who felt that this meeting is the answer. No one is that Naive.
As for the demanding….well those are the words and feelings of people who after a few hundred years of being kicked around ….they’re not taking it anymore.
To continue to shove……etc
What’s the problem almond? I express my views and equally others express theirs. Are you saying that if others express their views and I disagree that I should not say a thing? It’s not shoving…it’s just expressing and I didn’t know there was a time limit of any sort on it….because there doesn’t seem to be for anyone else.
Some of them say if Atleo persists and heads into a smaller meeting with Harper in his office instead, he will have no mandate or credibility left.
Not a lot of 'individual' Natives ever trusted Atleo and for assorted reasons less now. He is a ‘representative’ of the people and they don’t feel he is representing them as they want at this moment. Unlike the way we deal with politicians and if we don't like what they are doing we can't do much about it....Natives can. It’s no big deal…he’s like any leader.
"How one gets knowledge Pierre, real knowledge, is by putting on your boots..."
That may be your way, not mine.
As you know, twenty years ago I owned and managed an adult computer training centre in Belleville. Many of my "students" were aboriginal (Mohawks from the reserve nearby). I also negotiated training programs with the band management for some of their residents who required retraining (basic bookkeeping and computer business applications).
As such, without wearing boots, I got to know many of them and understand the individual and coltural challenges they faced.
That may be your way, not mine.
That’s fine.
I personally find that meeting Natives on their own turf they are a bit more open and also meeting a cross section of them from young to middle age to the elders especially because they speak more from a life of experience.
One of the chiefs said those words - that is why I put it in quotations.
I knew what that Chief said but I think you worded it incorrectly. You said in post 85 it was …. “They fear that resolving the native crisis may "bring the Canadian ecnonmy to its knees" in more ways than one.”
I think you may have meant …..’They fear that 'NOT' resolving the native crisis’
In more ways than one: what is the financial cost of settling these issues - especially to a country already 16 billion dollars in debt? Now we add in the decision regarding the Metis and the non-status natives. Add a few more zeroes to that debt.
Well I see your point but it reminds me of one of those court TV shows I watched yesterday and the tenant who owed rent to a landlord was asked why he didn’t pay. His response was he had a lot of other bills to pay and some family problems. But the judge said that that does not remove him from his responsibility to pay what is owned to someone else. His bad spending habits are his problem….not the landlords. Then she said a term she often uses….”pull up your big boy pants and take the responsibilities for what you have to do.”
How much is the cost of this all - are the Natives going to be happy with X number of dollars per qualifying native? What is that figure?
I can’t answer that. But it’s not all about money. People think that but it’s not. It’s about rights and land and intrusion and many other things. People have this ‘thing’ stuck in their heads Natives = Want money. Have you seen one statement by Native people where they say that as individuals they want more money?
Are we looking at having to buy back land that the natives claim. Is that all of Canada - 50% - 25%?
Couldn’t tell you. I think that’s a bit on the high side considering the size of Canada. Things like Caledonia …that’s been on the books for decades and yet it hasn’t been settled. You and everyone else are paying for the government lawyers and ….the Native lawyers. Ipperwash…..they have been waiting for years for someone to come out and make sure the land is empty of unexploded ordinance from the days it was a military training base. The kids can’t play in the woods and they can’t build a house in case they hit something. BC however is a unique situation. Most of it was just ‘taken’ when the government of the time just changed the rules and took it. I don’t know how something like that could be negotiated but I believe it can be.
This is a scary situation anjd I fear, not for me but for future generations that will bear the financial burden
Relax! the world isn’t falling apart. Harper can start by looking at his own budget and things like jets. Too bad he didn’t think about these things before inviting guests to Canada at our expense or funding an Olympics that few remember now. They could always print more money and hire a few U-Hauls.
It is in everything you say about the natives - over and over again.
Well you misinterpreted me. It is not ‘blind’ faith. It’s a simple process like one does with anything ….A is owed X amount and there is an agreement. I don’t care if it is a Native situation or a sale for 5 bucks on an online auction.
Sometimes you say some good things that actually make sense…….
I’m, I’m …… oh heck….where did I put the Kleenex!!
I found that the natives tend to treat a white man that will work for a native as "inferior".
Well that could happen anywhere. Maybe some have resentments….maybe it was just the boss as you said about the white boss. Hard to judge at this point. As a contractor I deal with some people who think they are my ‘boss’. Well in a sense they kind of are, because they are my customer and they want things done a certain way …..period! Some of them go so far as to ‘tell staff’ how it should be done because that’s the way they heard it should be done or that’s the way it is done where they came from. One particular race of people have a tendency to be more shall we say ‘bossy’ but we deal with them. Also some ‘bosses’ feel that they have to ‘lord’ over employees and not get close or friendly because it lessens their authority.
if I worked for one - then I must work for all.
That can be kind of a Native thing. I’ve seen it. They have their ‘ways’, part of the culture. It’s like if a Native gives you something…you give them something in return and you never buy sweet grass….it is to be traded. Each to their own and it takes time to learn the idiosyncrasies a culture and adapt out of respect. It’s the little things that make people think “this person has taken the time to understand us’….and that gets respect back.
Talk to you later….I’m off to put the horses away for the night. Been a pleasure.
No need to show a status card to answer the simple questions mikey.
Featured Posts
