New Seller standards - Cancelled Transactions Not correctly calculated.

[kingstonsportscards]

So I've got a problem and I'm not sure who to take it up with because the last time I called I was told not to worry about it it'll be fixed by the time the new seller standards roll out. When I started I had a problem with a few people paying for items separately and not combining shipping properly so in 3 cases , with 5 different items, I refunded payment and re invoiced the buyer properly for their shipping discount for multiple items. These 5 items are coming up as cancelled transactions because all eBay seems to see is the fact that the initial payment was refunded 100%, yet ignores the fact that it was paid for again because it has a different transaction number. Who do I contact to appeal/fix this? Do I have to spend another 2 1/2 hours playing Russian roulette with CSR's who don't know what you're talking about, or does someone know the direct method to appeal these transactions that seem to count as cancelled. Will anything be done about it or will I have to wait until its already a problem next month and I'm below standard and hope they can fix it unlike my current problems? Any help would be appreciated.

[mr.elmwood]

Our general understanding of what we "think" is that these will go away as of Aug 20th as long as you have selected the correct reason for cancelling.

[cumos55]

In such a situation one should not refund more than the cost of postage with each purchase...

Shows up as a partial refund....   

resulting in no defect

A full refund of any one purchase is what results in a defect for that one transaction.

[mr.elmwood]

Cumos, I was thinking of that as an alternate until we know what is really happening.

Plus, if I was the customer, I want to be told to pay again? Customers do not like aggravation, they like simplicity, and, they do not like helping us manage our business.

[triber]

I have had that situation several times. I no longer refund the whole amount, I just do what the others are saying, and refund the overpayment. I then call eBay and tell them how much I have refunded, and they give me a refund for the final value shipping fee amount.

I was told by the last person I contacted for the refund on eBay that this was the correct way to do it.

[cumos55]

The buyer has overpaid postage...

So... One gives a full refund of postage  until one gives a final partial refund of postage.

One must be straight forward  and to the point.

because... one such buyer bought five books  and left five low ratings for shipping cost..... which today would not be a defect....

while a full refund is a defect if not done for the right reason.....

[pjcdn2005]

There doesn't seem to be a direct route.

I haven't tried to get any defects removed but based on what I've read on other boards, if you are persistent and keep trying different reps, you can often get one removed, especially if it was a recent defect. I don't know if they are removing the older ones but if you are in that situation, you might want to be persistent and keep trying.

If you are around on Wednesdays at 1 p.m. est, you could ask an ebay canada rep at the weekly board session if they have any suggestions.

[kingstonsportscards]

The "cancelled" transactions that were 100% refunded through Paypal are still there after the update and still counting against my totals both Worldwide and in the US. They did not go anyway as hoped or as some CSR's were told to inform people who called in, and there was no place to give a reason when refunding through Paypal. These transactions were also in April, so now the auctions don't show up on eBay only in my Paypal transactions. Anyone have an idea who I should talk to about this? I'm working during the weekly board hours, anyone have experience in emailing raphael@ebay.com and hopefully getting answers?

[rose-dee]

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@kingstonsportscards wrote:

The "cancelled" transactions that were 100% refunded through Paypal are still there after the update and still counting against my totals both Worldwide and in the US. They did not go anyway as hoped or as some CSR's were told to inform people who called in, and there was no place to give a reason when refunding through Paypal. These transactions were also in April, so now the auctions don't show up on eBay only in my Paypal transactions. Anyone have an idea who I should talk to about this? I'm working during the weekly board hours, anyone have experience in emailing raphael@ebay.com and hopefully getting answers?

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My experience has been that Raphael is very responsive and helpful, although I think the eBay.ca staff has been running a little thin lately, so you may need to be patient for a few days to get a reply.  However, I can pretty much guarantee that the reply, whatever it is, will be more informed and intelligent than what you get from the CSRs.

By the way, do you recall what cancellation reason you used when processing the cancellations?  If you know you chose "buyer made a mistake", then eBay's record of that may help you.

As others have said here, now whenever I get this situation occurring (customer buying items separately and paying full shipping on each one), what I do is refund the excess shipping minus the FVFs paid to eBay on that amount.  So for example, if the shipping overage paid by the buyer was $10, I'll refund $9.10 [$10.00 - $0.90 (9%)].  If you want to be really picky, you could calculate the few pennies you lose to Paypal on the $0.90 lower refund -- because Paypal normally reverses its fees on refunds -- and factor that into your net refund as well.

To be honest though, if it's a good customer who has purchased a number of items and might return, I'm more inclined to just refund the gross difference and forget about my FVFs on shipping.

[kingstonsportscards]

There were no cancellation reason, that was part the problem. I just refunded the entire payments back through Paypal and reinvoiced for the correct amount, which never used to be a problem. When it occurred I hadn't done more than a few selling transactions on eBay since they started taking a FVF from the shipping.

If I knew it was going to cause this much of a hassle I'd have just refunded the shipping difference and coped on any FVF loss but I wasnt expecting it to be this much of an issue. I'm probably 3+ hours deep on around $15 worth of shipping that's now cost me ten times that in issues with eBay.

[pjcdn2005]

When you do a full refund through Paypal and do not cancel the transaction through ebay, they 'assume' that you have refunded because you were unable to provide the item purchased and they give you a defect. That's why you should avoid giving a full refund unless you are also going to cancel the transaction.

Since ebay can see that you gave a refund even though you didn't cancel, you would think they would be able to see that the buyer paid again but apparently the defect system is not set up to acknowledge that.

[mr.elmwood]

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@kingstonsportscards wrote:
There were no cancellation reason, that was part the problem. I just refunded the entire payments back through Paypal and reinvoiced for the correct amount, which never used to be a problem. When it occurred I hadn't done more than a few selling transactions on eBay since they started taking a FVF from the shipping.

If I knew it was going to cause this much of a hassle I'd have just refunded the shipping difference and coped on any FVF loss but I wasnt expecting it to be this much of an issue. I'm probably 3+ hours deep on around $15 worth of shipping that's now cost me ten times that in issues with eBay.

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That is a defect. They have no idea why you refunded. To them it could mean you broke it, lost it, over-sold inventory, they have no way of knowing.

You can do a partial refund, but not a full refund w/o a reason.

[rose-dee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

When you do a full refund through Paypal and do not cancel the transaction through ebay, they 'assume' that you have refunded because you were unable to provide the item purchased and they give you a defect. That's why you should avoid giving a full refund unless you are also going to cancel the transaction.

Since ebay can see that you gave a refund even though you didn't cancel, you would think they would be able to see that the buyer paid again but apparently the defect system is not set up to acknowledge that.

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Yes, and unfortunately I don't think eBay made this at all clear when they rolled out the new defect policy. 

What they should have emphasized was that every full refund will probably (always?) be counted as a defect unless the seller processes a cancellation -- for the right reason.  Even then, it seems a seller should have the buyer's "ask" via eBay messages, before proceeding with the cancellation. 

How many weeks/months has it taken for those of us who are paying close attention and frequenting these boards to fully understand what's going on with the defect policy?  How many more months will it take the majority of small sellers to figure this out?  Likely a lot of them will find out by trial and error, by which time they'll already be saddled with defects they can't afford on a small volume basis. 

To me, this is another demonstration of how eBay is slowly maneuvering its smaller independent sellers toward the door.  The test of a good seller is no longer in his/her customer relations and selling policies, but in how many defects he/she accumulates per volume.  And the larger the volume, the easier it is to absorb such defects because they are quantified on a different basis (3-month cycle). 

I'm rather disgusted to hear many well-intentioned sellers like the OP being punished for all the wrong reasons because an eBay policy is extremely poorly delineated.  What the OP was attempting to do -- and did do! -- was to satisfy his customer.  In any other commercial situation, that would be exactly the right thing to do.  Not here apparently.  No, here we have to find "workarounds" in order to satisfy both eBay and our buyers -- how absurd!  

I would still suggest to the OP that he take this up with Raphael.  The circumstances did not deserve a defect.