Non Paying Bidders and their feedback.

[eagle_fs]

I'm not for starting a feedback war, but I was thinking, Once a seller asks for a fee credit and is given it, This is eBay admitting that the buyer did NOT PAY, which means that they broke the contract, why are they still allowed to leave feedback.

Under all other circumstances, I agree that both parties should be allowed to leave feedback. But when a buyer doesn't pay, they SHOULD ALWAYS receive a negative from the seller (which some sellers do not do). The buyer should NOT be able to retaliate and give a neg back. All feedback left by them for that specific trasaction should automatically be removed.

Why allow them to leave feedback? Thay didn't pay.

I understand that sometimes it is NOT the buyers fault. It is for this reason that eBay could put in a ling for a buyer to fill out explaining why they did not do the transaction. Once eBay reviewed it, they could allow the buyer to leave feedback in response to the sellers.

This is the only way to protect us sellers from a bunch of nonpaying bidder neg's.

I believe, even with the way it is, that ALL sellers should leave negative feedback for NPB's. It allows us to let other sellers know. I know it puts us at risk for neg's ourselves, but if we all band together for a good solution (which I believe mine is), maybe eBay might actually do the unthinkable, and listen to us.

Let me know what you all think.

[www-labels4less-com]

"Once eBay reviewed it, they could allow the buyer to leave feedback in response to the sellers."
There are about 80 million registered ebayers and about 3-4 million listings ending every day. Are you suggesting it would be wise for Ebay to get involved with each dispute and decide if the non paying bidder has a valid reason to leave poor feedback?

[amberwoodottawa]

I fully agree however I think that putting in exclusion and exception rules would create a problem for eBay that they are not able to handle and perhaps could open them to litigation.

Scenario 1
Lets assume I bought something for $25 from a US vendor where posted shipping was $6 for US residents and at the end of the auction the seller came back and said shipping was $125 so I didnt proceed with the deal.

Even if he emailed me in advance stating shipping was only $10 and changed his mind, am I to get the automatic negative?

Scenario 2
How about if I paid for something by money order and the seller didnt send the item to me and claimed I didnt pay him.

Do I get the automatic negative feedback?
(This actually happened to me and after 5 1/2 months of not getting a refund or my item I left the seller negative feedback and he left me negative feedback)

What you are suggesting is for eBay to veryfy every transaction which they dont want to do as the cost would cut severely into their profits. By using the threat that both parties have equal rights to blackball each other, their hands are clean.

Of course it is a copout by eBay and one that doesnt reflect the support they should be showing to their biggest source of revenue, their PSers however someone would have to pay for the marshalling they would have to do and that would be us in the fees we pay.

I believe that there could be some rules and better opportunities for negatives to be reveresed, such as in my case where PayPal did investigate and found that I was ripped off by the Seller. he couldnt prove that he sent the item to me.

In that case, the negatove feedback should have been reveresed as PayPal, part of the eBay empire, perfomed a complete investigation.

I would like to see what you suggest however the cost of implementation and managing it would outweigh the benefit.

I dont get as hung up on negatives any longer. If I am doing my job fairly then there is nothing that I can do about that one wacko that comes up every few months and leaves a negative "Just Because".

Malcolm

[itrecovery]

I was just about to write my disgust with feedback system, but after Malcolm last paragraph I change my mind.

Yes, that true that if you give negative to NPB, you get negative feedback right away. And that is upsetting me.

From other hand every time when I get negative from some crook for nothing, I just process next 10 shipment and negative get buried under bunch of positives...

So, should we really care?

Anatoly @ itRecovery

[amberwoodottawa]

Anatoly @ itRecovery
Absolutely right. I went ballistic and sent a dozen emails to eBay after my first undeserved negative. Months later I got another undeserved negative, this time from someone who backed out of a deal and then after I emailed him a bunch of times over several weeks he finally paid but left me a negative stating I didnt return my emails (maybe he was writing about himself).

I realized there was nothing I can do about the lunatics. In hindsight I shouldnt have emailed him, contrary to what eBay suggests in trying to get both parties to complete the deal.

So instead of wasting energy and time, I moved on and sold items to good customers who gave me positive feedback that essentially reduces the effect of a negative feedback.

The other thing that it did for me is that I dont chase down the non-payers any longer. I follow my own strict rules as set out in my policy and that includes filing NPB alerts and giving negative feedback.

I also know that one of these non-paying bums will leave me negative feedback but in the meantime I will have sold to several dozen decent eBayers and my feedback ratio will not be damaged.

Malcolm

[itrecovery]

Malcolm,

Well, in my case (I'm selling electronics) I have 5-7% NPBs. If half of them will return negative to me, that bring me under 98% and I would be kicked out Powersellers program.

For myself I just fill the warning on day 7 and claim refund on day 17. After 500 positives, I don see a reason to chaise every feedback... although RED star (1000) is kinda cool :))

Anatoly

[amberwoodottawa]

I suppose that I have been fairly lucky as I get between 5 and 8 non payers per month and I would be in the same position as you in being kicked off the PS board and loosing that designation. Fortunately very few of them have given me negative feedback as a result of my giving them negative feedback.

I note some people leave a very personal feedback such as "Dont Trust this Bum" etc. I simply put "Didnt respond to emails. Didnt pay." Nothing personal, only the facts.

I am sure that many of them had their reasons not to complete the deal and while I dont excuse them as their non-paying is a cost to our business, they dont think that all the way through.

Besides, for most of those who are threatened about being kicked off eBay under their existing ID, it is not much of a threat and cheaper than buying stuff they bid on and won but couldnt afford or didnt want.

They will simply get another ID.

And as far as their having 10 or 12 positives, all some of these people have to do is purchase a bunch of $1 stickers or trinkets from some eBay sellers, pay right away and get a pile of positive feedbacks for less than a $15 investment.

Malcolm

[retrorescue]

If you stick with the facts, like Malcolm said, you lessen your chances of getting retaliatory FB.

I just say simply "Non-paying bidder" when I give out Negative FB comments, and had never got a retaliation so far.

RAY(retrorescue)

[shooger]

I'm pretty harsh with my negative feedback, like "No contact, no payment, not a trusted member to deal with." It's true that about half of them get pi$$ed off and neg me back, sometimes saying stuff like "this guy ripped me off" or something. It's pretty annoying. Even though I get a lot of positives, it might bury the negative but it still shows up on the "last 7 days, last month, etc" chart, as well as affects your overall lifetime percentage. I have managed to get a few illegal negatives removed, but it's hard, takes time, and expends effort that could be put to use elsewhere.

I agree that when you file a NPB alert, you should get the chance to leave feedback, but you should not be at risk for getting any in return. Filing a NPB alert means they didn't complete the transaction, end of story. If they manage to get the NPB alert reversed, which can happen if they prove they paid, etc, then they would regain the ability to leave feedback for you.

It wouldn't take eBay's programmers long to set this up, and I think it would be a good service to the community.

[jaymor8]

I agree with shooger - this could be a small programming fix and it sadly is a necessary evil. I realize too that it may make it easier for a seller to rip off a buyer but what is more likely to be the scenario that prevails? There will be rip-offs either way without the help, so I would rather err on the side of the sellers.

It would be great if the seller had the power to 'seal' a transaction. It could be just an everyday part of completing the sale such as clicking on a button that says 'completed'. Then and only then could a buyer leave a feedback. If by then the buyer still leaves a negative, well then he has every right. The one problem with that would be...those sellers who can't be bothered to leave feedbacks one way or the other which annoys the he11 out of me.

I think though that we should have our priorities straight and know exactly what feedback means to us. We should be interested in it for the right reasons. It should never be a personal vendetta, IMHO

Jackie...

[itrecovery]

That 'seal' can be a good perk for power seller only. So, you have to prove that you are serious about selling on-line first.

E-bay folks: Any comment???

Anatoly

[mshen01]

I agree with eagle_fs's point. There should be some feedback governance in a way that non-paying eBay buyers' feedback should be censored.

I recently run into a situation that a non-paying eBay buyer posted a revenge negative feedback. Any advice on how to have this removed?

Thanks a lot.

[mevans_dot_net]

mshen unless you can verify the contact info is invalid you'll have to live with your neg. Nothing you can do about it short of doing a mutual feedback withdrawl, which still shows up on your scorecard and the text remains.

I understand the desire to leave negs for NPB when they've wasted your time and listing fees. But its also just a cost of doing business, at least in this venue.

Some PS's feel that the more important issue is to file the NPB and FVF Credit so that after three times, the user is NARU'd. Leaving negs will warn other sellers in the meantime but some sellers just don't feel its worth the aggrevation.

After being around the block a while, here's my take on leaving vs. responding to feedback. Others may disagree, its just the way I work.

If you do choose to leave negative feedback first then at least keep it professional and check your emotions at the door. You may find out later there were reasons for a person not paying. For example when I first started years ago I left a neg for a NPB about 1-2 months after the end of auction and no replies to my emails. Turns out she had problems in her pregnancy and was hospitalized. And as luck would have it, the payment showed up in my mailbox the next morning so she had already mailed it. She never negged me back but it taught me a valuable lesson. If I don't know what's going on, I don't make up my own scenario. I give people the benefit of the doubt. What does it cost me? I've already got my FVF back.

I never leave feedback first. I run Merlin to automatically respond to positives with positives, within 5 minutes. If I do get a neg/neutral then all bets are off and I blast right back. It either means they never contacted me to resolve a problem I wasn't even aware of, or they did and wouldn't accept a fair resolution. I really try to make things right if people aren't happy but I expect them to work with me too.

If you have been in communication and its gone south, then leave a neg if that's what you choose. But mshen, leaving "No Payment, Sellers be Aware, Will Report to eBay!" is a harsh statment to post in a public forum, regardless of its deservedness. Will report to eBay (exclamation!) is your own frustration talking and you can't take it back if you cool down later. If you choose to leave feedback in that manner, then also be ready to accept some retaliation. Aggressive or antagonistic negs will get you nothing but the same in return and eBay will do NOTHING about it. They can't, otherwise they put themselves in the position of administering, policing and being liable for all the comments people want to post.

You're already in a tough business by selling jewelry. Its up to you how you choose to use the feedback system and whether you can reduce the negs you get. BTW, very nice jewelry!

[rewelu]

My honest suggestion is that you should just leave them alone.

Lower the risk of getting a negative by just NOT leaving feedback. You are not required to leave feedback.

I do this so that I lower my risk of getting a feedback rating of less than 100% (Wow, that would suck!)

[inventaires]

Hey,

I`m having a hard time with the NPB`s, the thing is that I can`t find a good system to follow up on this....how do you guys do it...step by step

Thanks
Nad

[mevans_dot_net]

Nad, what are you asking? Do you mean how to file a NPB and FVF Credit? This thread is about leaving feedback for NPB's and its been covered with several opinions.

If you explain what you mean by a good system, maybe we can help you.