Zero FB seller refuses to ship until Paypal release funds

[irismoon12]

I'll lay this out in point form for brevity..............

Purchase from zero feedback seller in Estonia on April 17

I paid immediately with Papypal.

Contacted seller 2 days later to ask whether it had been shipped. Auction stated "ships within 1 business day".

Seller emailed saying paypal was not allowing him to access his funds for up to 21 days, so he was not going to ship the item until his funds were available.

I messaged him saying that's how ebay works for new sellers, he had to ship the item, my payment has "cleared" it is in his Paypal account. As per the ebay help pages, this Paypal hold policy is to ensure the transaction goes smoothly.

He messaged me saying he'd called paypal who told him if he wasn't confident he could hold the item until the payment clears. I think that's wrong, it is contradictory to the policy. The payment has cleared, he just can't withdraw it from his paypal account.

Thus, I phoned ebay customer service this morning, April 21. They confirmed that my payment is complete, the funds are in his paypal account (even if he can't access them yet) and that "there is no reason for him not to ship the item." 

He seems to be misunderstanding the reasoning behind the paypal hold policy. Language doesn't seem to be an issue, all messages from seller have been relatively well written. It is a large sum of money so watching the 45 days very carefully. However, I don't want a refund, I want the item I bought and paid for.

Just wondering if I should be doing anything else?

[pierrelebel]

When looking at similar cameras offered on eBay, most sell between $1,000 and $2,000

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_sop=16&_from=R40&_nkw=Canon+EOS+7D+18.0+MP+Digital+SLR+Camera&rt=nc&_... 

including some available from a very reputable well known Canadian seller (member of the eBay.ca Hall of Fame) at around the same price.

So it is not a question of 'One of a Kind" or something that is seldom available anywhere.

Yes, the listing from Eastern Europe was attractively priced.  However, considering the new seller is unwilling to ship despite the money having been paid through PayPal. the safest thing to do is to get a refund and use the money to buy a comparable item from a Canadian or American seller with experience and reputation.

It is quite possible the seller is very honest, possibly there is a valid explanation why the item sold a few days earlier was relisted (maybe both the earlier bidder and underbidder did not want to pay), possibly the seller will ship in 21 days and it will take an extra 14 days or so to arrive in Canada, clear Canada Customs and be delivered.

I must admit I do not have an experienced opinion on the subject as I would not have purchased and paid for an item valued at more than $1,000 from a new (zero feedback) seller in Eastern Europe.

[bb_cool_stuff]

Yes, buy a comparable item from a Canadian Seller.

Similiar price, similiar product & will probably be shipped with tracking.

Of course we don't know the seller, could be honest, could not be. We don't know.

Like you, would not be willing to take an over thousand dollar risk. Too many red flags.

Like I*m mentioned, Paypal will probably cover it but why not eliminate the questions.

Buy the item from Canada & have it to your door in a week.

[irismoon12]

The seller sent a screenshot of his paypal account to show my payment is on hold. However, it isn't on hold it is only "pending", which asI pointed out to him, with the aid of some paypal FAQ links, is *not* the same as a hold.

Two days to go till I can file a dispute and that is what I intend to do. I am hoping that if the seller still refuses to ship, and the dispute gets escalated to a claim, paypal would tell him to ship it to resolve the claim. If not, and I get a refund, there's plenty more items out there.

Thanks again for all the input.

[i*m-still-here]

iris......... I know you didn't ask, and when you first posted I couldn't access the information regarding what you'd purchased ........................ 

I know you really seem to want this item........

BUT, personally, I'd consider myself lucky that the payment is pending and you have the option of cancelling the particular transaction.

Otherwise you could find that you have a hefty shipping fee for a return.

IMO that was a very high risk purchase, but perhaps not to you.

[irismoon12]

Update.....

Seller says "funds will clear May 9 and will ship & update with tracking formation next day", which is 21 days past payment date.

eBay will not let me open a dispute till May 12 as not enough time has passed, no doubt due to overseas shipping etc.

This seems like a potential flaw in paypal's in-house protection methods, since the funds will be available to seller three days before I can flag or inform ebay/paypal of a potential issue. I would think they have thought of the possibly of people *not* shipping while funds are pending, and I'm sure mine isn't the first case.

Responded to Seller's message reiterating funds are not on hold, they have cleared and are only pending, please ship immeadiately. Although, it is clear at this point that isn't going to happen.

[i*m-still-here]

IF you don't want the item any longer contact the seller and request to cancel the transaction.

See what happens.

[irismoon12]

Sub update....

Poking around at eBay resolution help and this time it kicked me over to Paypal so it looks like opening a dispute directly with paypal *may be* possible, even though they give me a heads-up to say "since it's international, may take time, etc.".....

[bb_cool_stuff]

Sorry to hear this has been so difficult for you since you have done everything right from the beginning.

Not sure what feedback i would leave but i would definitely report this buyer.

I don't think anyone would argue that a one for shipping time would an appropriate DSR.

[gotwhatchuneed]

It all seems kind of fishy to me, if the seller had the money to buy the lense in the first place they should have the money to pay for shipping out of pocket, I'd be very concerned about a "bait and switch" where the seller ships you a box of rocks with delivery and signature confirmation or some other scam. Possibly a stolen item who knows. I'd have to have nerves of steel to spend 1000 bucks on a zero feedback seller. I don't think this transaction is worth the possible head aches.  One thing that threw up red flags is where the seller states the memory card is different than the one in the photo..........why? ..........is it  just extra filler information to breed an air of credibility around the legitimacy of the item? if he owns that lense he should own a camera to take a picture of the actual items being sold and a very good picture. not just grab a photo off the internet.

[bb_cool_stuff]

Yes, this is one transaction that raises a lot of red flags.

Lets hope it all works out for irismoon. Must be frustrating.

Let us know what happens with Paypal.

[irismoon12]

A (hopefully?) final update: Received full refund. Details below.

On approximately May 1, before the May 9th promised ship date, I received an email from ebay saying "the listing had been removed and we strongly recommend you do not complete the transaction". So since we had already paid, I filed a dispute, which I was then allowed to immediately escalate to a claim, which isn't typically the case if I'm not mistaken. Presumably this was allowed because of the time elapsed between paying for the item and filing the dispute, but I'm just guessing on that one.

As part of the claim, I had to wait 10 days while ebay/Paypal "waited for the response from seller. At no time did the "seller" contact me to say, why did you file a claim, or anything like that. 

May 9 came and went without a shipment notification (HA!)

May 10 came and went which would be the 10 days after the dispute/claim process was initiated.

May 11 received full refund from Paypal due to no response from seller.

So that essentially ends that. Thanks for all you help during this.

I do have two observations/questions:

1) Most frustrating thing about entire process is not really knowing exactly whom you are dealing with be it eBay or Paypal. I know they are separate companies with the same owner. However, it would be a lot simpler if *ANYTHING* to do with ebay stayed within eBay at least from a customer perspective. Do what you what internally but the whole sometimes parallel, sometimes separate, tack is confusing and irritating.

2) The notice of refund I received included the statements...........

If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to
recover the balance from the seller.


If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed
to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the
seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account
privileges.

This has me worried for future Paypal protection. This seems to be saying, if the seller had emptied and closed his Paypal account, I *may* be on the hook for those funds, because let's face it, Paypal is highly unlikely to recover them. Doesn't Payal protection mean I am covered (if the terms are met and the auction states "your full purchase price is covered") no matter what the seller's status with Paypal is, and Paypal assumes that risk that they may lose their money in the transaction, not mine?