how can we organize a sellers strike?

[louiezlane]

having just lost nearly $300 in a buyer protection case, in which we did nothing wrong (item tracking was uploaded, and item is still in transit), I'm hoping we can organize a sellers strike. The only way to punish ebay and end the slant towards buyers, is to stop listing on this site. Etsy, amazon, there are other options... Anyone?

[recped]

In transit to where/when?

[louiezlane]

the item is in transit from canada to russia. the tracking shows the item is in russia now, and should be delivered soon, yet we lost the case and can't appeal. if the item does get delivered, theres no requirement that the buyer pay again, or return the item, and our insurance only covers us if the item is not delivered. So, the item shows delivered in the next few days, buyer doesnt have to pay, doesnt have to return the item, and we dont get insurance coverage, and this is all at the hands of ebay. pretty ridiculous, and one of the many, many reasons a sellers strike is long overdue.

[lady.stark]

Which method of tracking did you use? If the item shows as being delivered, I'm pretty sure you can appeal with eBay (or PayPal). How many days has it been since you shipped the item?

[louiezlane]

we used canada post, and uploaded the tracking number. the item was shipped on august 3, and no the case can not be appealed, as per the ebay resolution center.

[rose-dee]

There is a simpler way to avoid such problems in future - don't ship to Russia, or at least don't ship anything of value to Russia.  

If Russian sales represent a relatively small portion of your business, and the losses from Russian claims are eating significantly into that value, then the most logical strategy is to cut off the losing part of your business and focus on marketing your goods elsewhere (places with shorter shipping times and/or more reliable postal services).  EBay permits us to ship worldwide, but that doesn't mean we all have to do so.  You can specify shipping destinations on individual listings, which would allow you to make the Russia/no Russia choice on an item-by-item basis.  

I'm afraid the idea of a sellers' strike is fantasy -- with millions of sellers of every type on eBay worldwide, you'd be lucky to get noticed even if you organized tens of thousands.  People who depend on eBay income aren't going to stop selling to protest policy.  And you'd likely find other problems just as troublesome (or more so) on other sites.  Making eBay work for you is a matter of finding the right items to sell to the right places at the right price, and avoiding potential problem areas.

In fact, if claims to Russia (and other "iffy" destinations) become so pervasive that a majority of sellers stop selling to Russia entirely, that may have exactly the effect you want of getting eBay's notice, and then possibly something might change.  

On that subject, I notice that eBay has recently introduced GSP for Russia, so obviously U.S. sellers were not happy and were not shipping there enough to suit eBay.  The GSP, for all its faults, takes problems like yours out of the hands of the seller.  Of course, it's not available in Canada, but if enough Canadian sellers give up on Russia, someone at eBay may decide to change the claims procedures for destinations like Russia -- it's a better hope than a strike.  

In the meantime, you may very well find that your Russian buyer will either send your item back, or pay you once it arrives.  I'd keep in touch with him/her and be ready to send an invoice via Paypal when the parcel shows up. 

[pierrelebel]

"I'm hoping we can organize a sellers strike."

???

Why would sellers do that?

On an average day, sellers sell $200,000,000 worth of stuff on eBay. Every single day.

Why would they give that up?

[louiezlane]

a) i dont think the $200,000,000 figure is accurate

b) i'd be willing to give up my sales for a few days to teach ebay that they have to be fair to everyone

the last strike didn't take long to resolve, shouldn't this time either. there's really no other way to make ebay listen, and to force them to be more fair to both buyer and seller. without a sellers strike, ebay will continue to walk on sellers with unfair practices.

[louiezlane]

you sound like an ebay rep.

sadly though, gsp isn't available in canada yet, so that is really no help, at all, whatsoever.

maybe if ebay was upfront and honest about which countries are "iffy" this problem wouldn't have arisen. unfortunately there is no help like this for new sellers though.

we have reset the list of countries we sell to, and excluded russia. that is no help in recovering the $300 though.

ebay sellers strike isn't a fantasy, it's been done before and it worked. look it up.

[pierrelebel]

"i dont think the $200,000,000 figure is accurate"

It is.  Check eBay's financial statements.  I do have a reputation and I do not make up numbers.

[louiezlane]

Please provide a link

[rose-dee]

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@louiezlane wrote:

you sound like an ebay rep.

---

 I just like to call a spade a spade.  If you've seen some of my other posts, you'll know I don't make a policy of siding with eBay. 

Yes, as I said, the GSP is not available in Canada, but the point was that enough U.S. sellers obviously weren't shipping there to satisfy eBay, so they found a policy that might change sellers' practice.  If enough Canadian sellers stopped shipping to Russia, that might get noticed.  

There is actually some guidance as to what countries are "iffy" to ship to -- follow these discussion boards and you'll soon figure that out.  Or check Canada Post's information -- I'm sure someone here will have the link handy that points to the chart of problem countries on Canada Post's list.

If you're just getting established on eBay, unless you know you have a market in a particular country (for example, selling books in the Russian language to Russia), it's not a bad idea to stick with the countries that have more reliable postal services and do not suffer from rampant fraud or thievery -- which is essentially Canada, U.S., U.K., western Europe, Australia, New Zealand and perhaps areas like Japan, Hongkong and Singapore.  You'll probably find that most of your sales will be to the U.S. and Canada anyway.  

And (just my opinion), never ship anything you can't afford to lose, or lose a claim on, by surface overseas, even if it has tracking.  Even for countries like Italy, Poland and Spain, I will use a tracked air service for anything over $50 in value.  If the price turns off buyers in those areas, well probably the risk wasn't worth it to me in the first place, and I'll wait for a U.S. or Canadian buyer who will be happy to pay $10 in shipping rather than $35.  

[pierrelebel]

"Please provide a link"

It is a sad case when one cannot find a link to eBay's financial reports.  They are available all over the internet.

You can find all recent financial releases from the eBay.com website: http://investor.ebayinc.com/financial_releases.cfm

They are also available from Google, Yahoo, etc...

Looking at the most recent (July 2013):

"Gross merchandise volume (GMV), excluding vehicles, increased 13% to $18 billion."

$18,000,000,000 per quarter = $200,000,000 per day.

[pocomocomputing]

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@louiezlane wrote:

you sound like an ebay rep.

sadly though, gsp isn't available in canada yet, so that is really no help, at all, whatsoever.

maybe if ebay was upfront and honest about which countries are "iffy" this problem wouldn't have arisen. unfortunately there is no help like this for new sellers though.

we have reset the list of countries we sell to, and excluded russia. that is no help in recovering the $300 though.

ebay sellers strike isn't a fantasy, it's been done before and it worked. look it up.

---

Go to a third party shipping insurance company like shipsurance or u-pic and look at what countries they will insure when buying a one time online policy for shipping insurance. If they will not insure to a country, that is a good indication that the country is high risk. Insurance providers are true gamblers. They only cover risks that make them money in the long run.

Here is the shipsurance list of countries they will insure:

http://shipsurance.com/questions.asp#GEN6

Here is the U-Pic list of countries they will insure:

http://delta.u-pic.com/FAQ.aspx

Notice that the two companies have many countries in common that they will insure but there are some differences. These countries can be the basis of a list of countries that you might want to ship to. You may want to use only some of these countries. For example, U-Pic insures to Russia and shipsurance does not. So one thinks that Russia is high risk. Maybe base your list on only the countries both will insure.

Please note that these insurance providers has restrictions on what they will insure. For example, they may not cover some electronic items like cell phones or laptops because they are higher risk for theft to any country.

Now I am not suggesting that you use these two insurance providers but only use their lists to figure out what are high risk countries. Whether you use Canada Post insurance or no insurance or one of the two companies I mentioned is up to you. Some sellers use no insurance and assume they will pay more in insurance fees over time that what they claim. So they assume all of the risk knowing they save more in the long run.

[rose-dee]

Thanks 'poco'  - those were the links I was actually thinking of.  

Insurers work on specifically calculated risks, so a country that neither will ship to is likely a country no one who cares about loss will probably want to ship to, although many do.  It all depends whether that one in a hundred sale to a far-flung area of the globe is worth the risk of loss to a particular seller.  Obviously, the higher the value of the item, the greater the risk. 

The Russian market is probably sitting there like a gigantic lollipop that eBay can't quite lick (if you'll pardon the image) -- I'm sure it would love to tap into those millions of buyers who would desperately like to purchase Western goods, but they need a way to make it work in conjunction with the existing postal system in Russia, which as I understand it, is rife with corruption, payoffs, etc.  Maybe the market is so big and potentially lucrative that eBay will decide to set up its own distribution system in Russia, à la Fedex, who knows?

[recped]

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@louiezlane wrote:

we used canada post, and uploaded the tracking number. the item was shipped on august 3, and no the case can not be appealed, as per the ebay resolution center.

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85 days and the buyer doesn't have their item......what do you expect eBay to do?

[recped]

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@louiezlane wrote:

b) i'd be willing to give up my sales for a few days to teach ebay that they have to be fair to everyone

the last strike didn't take long to resolve

---

Why does eBay have to be "fair" and if they should how about fair to the buyer who paid you $300 and 85 days later has NOTHING top show for it?

"Last Strike" Huh?

You are an independent business, you can't "strike", if you want to show your displeasure then  come up with a different business plan that doesn't include eBay.

If you think this would have turned out any different at Amazon or Etsy you are sadly mistaken, the result would have been exactly the same. Well actually Amazon would NEVER allow it to go on this long they would have taken your money a month ago or more.

[louiezlane]

obviously i expect them to wait. the item is tracked and insured. 85 days because the buyer is too cheap to pay for faster shipping. how is this my problem? what a ridiculous response. whos trolling here?

[louiezlane]

85 days because the buyer is cheap. the buyer decided to opt for the cheapest shipping available. come on

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

we used canada post, and uploaded the tracking number. the item was shipped on august 3, and no the case can not be appealed, as per the ebay resolution center.

Don't ever ship ANYTHING with surface mail. It has been over 2 months and item hasn't arrived, so if I were the buyer I'd file for refund too. Be more familiar with ebay/paypal's buyer protection policy (something about 45 days?) and it'd save you a lot of headache to begin with.