eBay

cdnroadman · ‎02-21-2019

I purchased 2 cans of carburetor cleaner but when the package came it only contained one can. I sent the seller several messages over 3 days that were all ignored. I then opened a case with EBay who immediately dismissed it because the shipper said I had received the parcel. I’m out the money and the can of carb cleaner and EBay will do nothing.
Any advice?

femmefan1946 · ‎02-21-2019

I assume you opened your Dispute as ‘not received’ when it should have been not as described
You can’t reopen the eBay case but you are covered by PayPal
The PP resolution centre is at the top of your PP account page understand Tools.
This time Open the NAD Dispute
PP will tell you to return the short shipment to the seller
You pay postage. Sorry.
But you have 180 days from payment for a PP Dispute.
When tracking (yeas the return shipment MUST be tracked) shows the seller has the tin back you will be refunded.
Do NOT accept an offer of a replacement. The seller has a proven record of mendacity

pocomocomputing · ‎02-21-2019

@femmefan1946 wrote:
The seller has a proven record of mendacity.

Mendacity = untruthfulness

Off topic. You made me look it up, never heard of this word. Past 4 letters in a word so this male had trouble understanding. But I would have expected the word to be womendacity = untruthfulnes. Lol, let the battle of sexes begin (well continue...)

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-22-2019

Even if an item not received case has been opened and closed you can still open a not as described case on eBay. To do that, open a return request and use the reason that there were missing parts and/or the item wasn’t as described. Do not close the case until you are refunded or you have received the missing piece.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-22-2019

@pocomocomputing wrote:
@femmefan1946 wrote:
The seller has a proven record of mendacity.
Mendacity = untruthfulness

Off topic. You made me look it up, never heard of this word. Past 4 letters in a word so this male had trouble understanding. But I would have expected the word to be womendacity = untruthfulnes. Lol, let the battle of sexes begin (well continue...)

Pfffft!

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎02-22-2019

@cdnroadman

There were several other questions that needed to be asked/answered when this package arrived:

1. When you opened the box, was there empty space to make it appear 1 unit was removed/fell out? Would 2 units fit in the box? Could you tell if something leaked from how you received your package?

2. Did it appear the box was retaped? If it was shipped from an international location and was opened by customs it would have customs tape or it's supposed to.

3. What was the original package weight and the actual weight when it arrived at your location.

(In normal circumstances someone mailing a package inputs the correct weight to pay the correct postage.)

4. Was there a packing slip included? Packing slip should have stated 2 units. If you honestly(truthfully for sake of argument) received 1, then this would be a short shipment. (Sellers....Include a pack slip!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Doing so says you shipped what the customer ordered and they received what they ordered.) (For customs purposes documents should include the shipping label, a customs invoice and a packing slip with the correct number of copies.)

5. Short-shipments are caused by 2 possible circumstances. 1. The shipper didn't ship correctly to begin with or 2. The item disappeared in transit "SOMEWHERE" along the way.

6. Once you can determine where the item was shorted....Package weight discrepancy/Shorted by shipper/Disappeared in transit you could determine what kind of claim is required.. This is where it is MOST important to keep the original packaging and take photos to make a claim.

7. Explaining these factors to your seller would get the ball rolling for them to make a claim and for the POSSIBILITY of it being either accepted or rejected. Claims when applicable(was there insurance for the parcel?) need to be made by the shipper with the assistance of the receiver to be processed by a postal system/carrier.

8. Last question and maybe the most important. Was this item acceptable as mailable material? If it is in a pressurized container it "Should NOT" be mailed. If it leaked would it be corrosive. Also not to be mailed. Would it be considered flammable? Another reason for it not to be mailed. If it is considered hazardous then your seller was breaking the rules for shipping. This would be a whole other can of worms to open and null and void any attempt for making a claim and a discussion for another day.

IF you can suggest to the seller that one of these other scenarios possibly took place the seller MAY be more willing to getting you a refund for the "Missing" unit.

According to eBay these situations are considered NAD or Not Received. As a customer(receiver) receiving a parcel "technically" it should be considered a claim for short shipment. Possibly semantics or splitting hairs but the universal standard procedure would be making a claim. (See links below.) Same goes for situations where an item is received damaged. Proceeding this way the seller is not out funds for the purchase and buyer gets what they originally ordered. If a replacement cannot be mailed...(No additional stock) the seller can refund from a processed claim. For this particular situation, I'm not really sure what would be resolved by returning 1 can to the seller. This would result in wasted costs for a return when in actuality the buyer only wants either their 2nd unit or to be compensated for the shortage.

https://www.canadapost.ca/web/en/kb/details.page?article=what_to_do_if_your_p&cattype=kb&cat=receivi...

https://www.usps.com/help/missing-mail.htm

https://about.usps.com/publications/pub122/pub122_v07_revision_092016_007.htm

-Lotz

PS. Personal long story short. Shipped parcel (1 Unit) to a customer along with a packing slip inside the box. Customer advised package arrived empty. Package left as 1.6 KG - $28.00 Postage. (I would never send an empty box to a customer...It's asking for trouble.) The customer took photos of the box. Showed it was retaped at the end. Submitted claim to Canadapost with photos and details. Canadapost paid the claim for missing goods and original shipping. Sent replacement shipment to the customer. Situation resolved for BOTH myself and the buyer. If I would have been unable to replace contents I would still have been able to recoup my cost for goods and postage and buyer would not be out of pocket for their order with a properly filed claim.

cdnroadman · ‎02-22-2019

The box would have accommodated two cans perfectly.
No packing slip or customs tape,just one strip of regular packing tape.
No signs of leakage anywhere and both cans were the same product so I’m guessing it’s not a hazmat issue.
After reading your reply (thanks) I checked the shipping label and it would appear that the weight is for one can only.
I will be confirming that at Canada post this afternoon.
eBay wants me to report the shipper to the RCMP and send them a copy of the report before they’ll proceed in any fashion.
I think this demand is ridiculous and a waste of everyone’s time because the seller is from the US,the amount I’m out is under a hundred dollars and it’s not their responsibility to police sketchy eBay sellers.
I certainly appreciate all the help but I’m thinking that I’m better off to save myself the stress,consider this a lesson learned and move on and away from eBay.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎02-22-2019

@cdnroadman

The recommended process for these types of situations is really not a 1 size fits all. In many cases either the seller made an honest mistake or something happened in transit. If it was an honest mistake the seller should have the opportunity to fix it to the customer's satisfaction without all the grief that seems to be now included. If a package gets damaged in transit it should be the same. If a package is "late" that is NOT the fault of the seller. It could be either a miss-sort/packaging/handling/customs or weather delay. Lots of possibilities. Being able to resolve these situations without a whole bunch of finger pointing really doesn't do anyone any good. It would be nice if everything went 100% smoothly but that's not the real world. I believe the system needs to be a little bit more flexible especially when major distances are involved especially factoring in postage to resolve. Like you said, when you able to buy locally always the best plan!! Well except if you are an eBay seller trying to make a buck!! Best of luck with any future purchases!!

-Lotz

femmefan1946 · ‎02-22-2019

5. Short-shipments are caused by 2 possible circumstances. 1. The shipper didn't ship correctly to begin with or 2. The item disappeared in transit "SOMEWHERE" along the way.

6. Once you can determine where the item was shorted....Package weight discrepancy/Shorted by shipper/Disappeared in transit you could determine what kind of claim is required.. This is where it is MOST important to keep the original packaging and take photos to make a claim.

Sorry about the long quote.

If the seller is willing to take responsibility for the shortage, this is just due diligence on the part of the buyer, to confirm the problem for the seller.

If the seller decides to be difficult, none of this is necessary, since eBay will refund the buyer if he refuses to pay postage for the return.

(PP will insist that the buyer pays for the return.)

The seller is responsible to get the purchase to the buyer securely and promptly.

Even if it is captured by pirates on the South China Sea, the seller is responsible.

Not at fault, but responsible.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-22-2019

@cdnroadman wrote:
The box would have accommodated two cans perfectly.
No packing slip or customs tape,just one strip of regular packing tape.
No signs of leakage anywhere and both cans were the same product so I’m guessing it’s not a hazmat issue.
After reading your reply (thanks) I checked the shipping label and it would appear that the weight is for one can only.
I will be confirming that at Canada post this afternoon.
eBay wants me to report the shipper to the RCMP and send them a copy of the report before they’ll proceed in any fashion.
I think this demand is ridiculous and a waste of everyone’s time because the seller is from the US,the amount I’m out is under a hundred dollars and it’s not their responsibility to police sketchy eBay sellers.
I certainly appreciate all the help but I’m thinking that I’m better off to save myself the stress,consider this a lesson learned and move on and away from eBay.

You have filed a return /item not as described request and ebay has still asked you to file a police report? I've never heard of them asking the buyer for that.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎02-22-2019

@femmefan1946

"The seller is responsible to get the purchase to the buyer securely and promptly.

Even if it is captured by pirates on the South China Sea, the seller is responsible.

Not at fault, but responsible."

Securely yes. Promptly is up for debate. Because a number of my items are of lower value I offer US Air Small Packet and Intl Air Small Packet at the buyer's discretion to use because they are much more economical shipping solution. (I include the premium services also) If that customer chooses 1 of those slower options is it the seller's fault that they take longer than Expedited, Tracked or Xpresspost? If they wanted it fast they would have paid for fast. For a buyer to leave neutral or negative feedback/low DSR's when they chose a slower service does not seem fair to a seller that did what the buyer requested.

-Lotz

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-22-2019

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
@cdnroadman

The recommended process for these types of situations is really not a 1 size fits all. In many cases either the seller made an honest mistake or something happened in transit. If it was an honest mistake the seller should have the opportunity to fix it to the customer's satisfaction without all the grief that seems to be now included. If a package gets damaged in transit it should be the same. If a package is "late" that is NOT the fault of the seller. It could be either a miss-sort/packaging/handling/customs or weather delay. Lots of possibilities. Being able to resolve these situations without a whole bunch of finger pointing really doesn't do anyone any good. It would be nice if everything went 100% smoothly but that's not the real world. I believe the system needs to be a little bit more flexible especially when major distances are involved especially factoring in postage to resolve. Like you said, when you able to buy locally always the best plan!! Well except if you are an eBay seller trying to make a buck!! Best of luck with any future purchases!!

-Lotz

The buyer sent the seller messages about the problem, the seller didn't respond. The seller has already had their chance to fix the problem and/or figure out what happened...it is not up to the buyer. If the seller had asked them to check specific things...yes that would be right for the buyer to cooperate to do so suggest that the buyer try to figure out why they are missing an item when the seller hasn't bothered to reply to their concerns is not necessary.

I don't know where the seller is located but if they are not in the US or Canada, I would suggest that the buyer NOT ask for a replacement but to either get a partial refund for the missing item (if the seller is willing) or to send back the item received and get a full refund.

reallynicestamps · ‎02-22-2019

@lotzofuniquegoodies

is it the seller's fault

Not fault.

Responsibility.

The seller chooses the service he will use (including allowing the customer to choose from a range of services that the seller considers acceptable) and then is responsible for having offered that service.

The service (Canada Post/UPS/ China Post) is responsible to their customer-- the seller.

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"In my defence, I was left unsupervised." - Marie Bilodeau, surrounded by glitter and searching for the fire extinguisher.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎02-24-2019

@reallynicestamps

Regarding "responsibility", why aren't delivery times from US sellers based on the same criteria as shipments from Canada to the USA?

Looking at 3 identical items with GPS. One located in Chicago shipping to Calgary with "Intl. Priority" 8 to 20 business days. Another from Houston to Calgary with "Intl Priority" in 8 to 13 business days. 3rd from NJ to Calgary 9 to 21 days by Intl Priority. Shipping amount/processing almost identical for the 3 locations. Projected delivery times are all over the map based on actual spoke & wheel distances.

Part of the problem with GPS appears more of an attempt to use whatever service makes the most profit for the Seller/PB vs giving the buyer more than 1 option so they could choose a service. With the majority of US sellers now using GSP it's making it much more difficult for a Canadian buyer based on what's displaying as transit time to match the timeframe they require.

The end result is buyers finding out the shortcomings of GSP after their first transaction and why they show up here to complain. On the flipside how is it magically possible for a US seller to ship US buyer those same items for free? Welcome to more hmmmm moments of buying/selling on eBay & Canada vs USA discrepancies.

-Lotz

Chicago, Il to Erlanger to Calgary 2935 miles 8 to 20 business days

Wilmington NJ to Erlanger to Calgary 3275 miles 9 to 21 business days

Houston, Tx to Erlanger to Calgary 3700 Miles 8 to 13 business days???

reallynicestamps · ‎02-25-2019

@lotzofuniquegoodies

Interesting questions.

an attempt to use whatever service makes the most profit for the Seller/PB

Sellers don't see a penny of the GSP/PB charges. They get only the money they use to ship to Kentucky. The rest is GSP shipping, a GSP service charge, and the money GSP uses to pay Canadian duty and taxes.
The GSP may well make a profit over and above the service charge. That's generally how commerce works.

vs giving the buyer more than 1 option so they could choose a service.

We sellers have the right to choose shipping services that in our opinion offer the best opportunity to get the purchase to the buyer at the most reasonable cost for the delivery.

Some sellers allow buyers to choose among two or more services. I don't.

In my opinion, the buyer will usually choose the cheapest service and expect the SuprSwifftieGoldExpress service.

The shipping is chosen to protect the seller. We package to protect our product and prevent damage in transit. We use tracking to prevent phoney Not Received claims. We use Air Mail International instead of cheap Surface to prevent real Not Received claims.

Sellers are here for the money. Providing good customer service is one way to make money.

I am old and cynical.