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Always good to hear the ‘other side’ of the story and hear information and facts that the government and the media so conveniently keep from the public.
It’s about an hour long so if you are so inclined to get a more balanced perspective here it is……….
" to get a more balanced perspective:"
balanced ???
You must be kidding.
For the record, we have two nieces who are teachers (my sister's daughter and Mary's brother's daughter). We understand what it took to get there and the constant challenges of their profession.
We are also taxpayers and are the one paying their salaries and benefits.
The challenge is to find the right balance between our ability and willingness to pay and the ever growing costs of the service they provide.
And the same challenge applies to all facets of the modern society we live in.
How much do we, as taxpayers, want to pay for
health services (doctors, nurses, hospital services, etc...)
education at all levels
police protection and legal system
seniors pension and benefits
fire protection
water and sewers
roads, bridges and their maintenance
political system (elected officials and civil servants)
armed services
international aid to underpriviledged countries
welfare system for our underprivileged
etc... etc...
Then the next questions are:
How much do we want to pay now?
and how much do we want to borrow and let our children and grandchildren pay the debt and interest eventually?
balanced ??? You must be kidding.
No not kidding. Although I watch and read the news on a constant basis, there was a lot in there that I had not heard of.
Pierre post 3. Fine post, well put…..and you would also agree that people should not work for no pay? Well then all the taxpayers and parents won’t mind if teachers who have given of their free time for decades to help the children and participate in after school and sometimes weekend sports and other events…..stop doing it.
What information was there that was hidden?
I’ll have to go back and watch it again and copy down points (and I think I may)….but here’s a few that I do remember:
- That lawyers were the ones having the discussion with the teachers and not the regular negotiators.
- That there was basically no discussion….it was more “this is it, take it or leave it”.
- That there is a discussion paper with points in it that could affect teachers in the future.
He said he has only used 5 days and that was when his DAUGHTER was sick!! Umm sick leave is for when YOU are sick bot your kids or cousins or your dog. In the "real" world if your child is sick you take vacation time or just take time off your not paid when your kids are sick.
Oh really? Lots of people, especially those on salary, take time off when they have a family member who is sick and they get paid. 5 days? Pffffft….one week and the teacher is entitled to that from previous negotiations. What’s more important to you….your job (lol) ………or your child?
Go back and watch the whole discussion instead of just half. Not that it may matter, because you already have your mind made up.
As one of the teachers said …..the middle class has lost a lot in recent years and because of that they do not like the idea that some others have managed to hold on to their gains. I guess that’s basic human nature…….Greed.
What it boils down to, in the minds of some people is …..’if I have lost a lot…I want other people to lose too, or I won’t be satisfied’.
Free trade has destroyed the middle class. You can thank the Conservative Mulroney for that and Harper who wants to extend it to other countries. It takes more jobs away and sends them to places where people who get paid a lot less or in some cases slave wages, work to make the rich richer. Along with all that the quality of goods has gone down hill and we live in an increasingly disposable society. Large corporations, many US owned are decimating our Canadian businesses. Meanwhile back at the ranch the people who are whining don’t seem to be interested in the waste of money that governments at all levels throw out the window. So because they can’t take on the politicians, or the big corporations, they have to find someone, anyone to make the villain and if it’s not the Natives, it’s the teachers, or the public employees or some other whipping post to compensate for their own lack of power in the world they live in.
Where do you get this stuff?
Logic, perception, investigation etc etc.
The problem with some people is when you tell them they are greedy.....they'll do everything to denounce you for the truth. On top of greedy....I could add...jealous. Jealous of workers who have more money or more benefits or more anything.
When it comes to the teachers, we will start that these people have in the past negotiated contracts. Within these contracts they were given certain things and like anyone else, including those who attack them, no one wants things taken from them.....and they certainly do not want things Forcibly taken from them......who would.
They especially do not like things taken from them when the people taking them away (the politicians) spend money wastefully and have golden handshake pensions themselves. It's as one teacher put it...it's like someone telling you that you have to eat a McD hamburger while they go across the street and have lobster. These same people who want to take things away, they are the same people who give massive amounts of money to Corporations, as well as tax breaks, and some of those Corporations just close up years later and leave the country with no strings attached and leave with your money.
Of course there are those who dislike teachers and other people...the same people who won't take on their own government waste or politicians so to feel like they have 'some power' they aim for those who either cannot defend themselves such as people on welfare or people who are disabled...or people who are in unions who have protected themselves in the past.
These same people who do these attacks....I've yet to meet one who has been a teacher. So what do they know about what teachers do? How do they know about the time teachers give on their own to extracirricular activities? How do they know how much time a teacher spends at home working and not being paid for that time? Most of these complainers if their boss said they had to come into work but not get paid.....they would laugh!
The thing about people in general is they are not hard to figure out. The problem is, they neither can see themselves nor do they know themselves. It's often a very simple question a person has to ask themselves......."would I want my agreements taken away?....would I want to be bullied by my employer?.....would I want an agreement in the background hanging over my head for the future where they can take more away from me?.....do I want to lose my democratic rights?" If the answer is ...No......then you now understand how the teachers and any other worker feels. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'....period.
And PS.....at the beginning I wasn't on the teacher's side, even with a neice who is a teacher. Then I learned more about what was really going on and I realized that my view of them was wrong. Sorry but I can't be part of the mob, not in good conscience.
but they do have common sense and realize that some things have to change
Nothing wrong with change…..in it’s place. Personally I think change should start with government and politicians. I have a firm belief that we in Ontario and Canada have allllll the money we need and more…but it is poorly spent behind our backs. The thing with politicians is they always play people for fools. They like to encompass things into general headings that they know the people will not dispute. Take for instance ‘roads’. They will say “we spent 130 million on roads”…..and the people say “oh well that’s good, roads are needed, I drive a car”. But people never look at the….’details’…..and often it’s because you are not given the ‘details’. Were all those roads actually needed to be done? Who got the contracts and why? Were quotes given and then kicked up in price later and why? Were the roads made out of material that will last 10 years or 50? What is the cost difference and long term savings? Were some of these roads fixed only because the department budget was coming up and they wanted it to read zero? How can you ask taxpayers for more money if you actually have some left over? There are so many examples to be looked at but people never do. However when it comes to something like teachers….it’s easy to look at them on the ‘surface’ and what the government and the government media want people to hear. People are fed taxpayer pabulum and gobbled up in a comedy of errors.
You asked how do you take the government on? Well there are many ways. Voting of course, but the problem with that is many people are party oriented rather than people oriented. We are indoctrinated from birth in this country (and others) to see only 2 or 3 choices. The truth is there are many more and those people never get the air time to even voice their views…..views that might just surprise people as to how intelligent they are. We also have a political system that needs change and if you want ‘change’ then demand it there first and foremost. The politicians of most parties and the media….they’re all scratching each others backs and the people are the pawns. If you don’t think they know how you think and how to move you around their chessboard to get what they inevitably want either for themselves or their ‘friends’ then you should really think again.
The next way to deal with politicians is activeness. Too many people are complacent and just plain lazy. As long as their little life around them is warm and cozy and they have the car in the driveways and a pension coming in and their big screen TV and a refrigerator full of food or a good paying job so they can go shop at Wallymart of some other higher priced store…… they don’t care about other people or the future. Where like in other countries are the throngs of people at political doors? The only time that happens is when for the most part young people stand up, and the others cozy at home in their little abodes…….just laugh at them while they polish their rose coloured glasses and eat their pabulum. Canadians…….haven’t suffered enough to understand nor waken up! We’re in comparison to other countries a young country that has had it good since the beginning (First Nations people being the exception). We have never had a war on our soil or a deep depression or a calamity of apocalyptic proportions. We’re spoiled.
We vote these politicians, ‘employees’ into power and then they become kings and queens who avoid us, never answer a straight question and many times hide information from us. We say we ‘trust them’…..that’s the first huge mistake. Generally speaking people are gullible and easily lead.
People want to go after the unions or the teachers or those on welfare, or others like the Native people........ while the real thieves are in Ottawa and in Toronto and in your local councils and in Corporate board rooms. People are going after the wrong people...because they are afraid to or do not want to disrupt the status quo.....which is nice and cozy.
As far as the rest of your comments, believe what you want. I’m not the first person nor will I be the last to stand by my beliefs and be proven right later.
And .....if you ever find the time to answer my previous question..... "would I want my agreements taken away?....would I want to be bullied by my employer?.....would I want an agreement in the background hanging over my head for the future where they can take more away from me?.....do I want to lose my democratic rights?" .....let me know.
I asked what YOU have actually done.
Why do you ask? I’ve spoken of many things I have done. Do you not read posts?
Sorry, it's not that black and white.
I’ve only seen a couple of comments from a couple of people who have an outlook of some things they don’t like about the union and also what they don’t like about the government. A majority of time though it’s all anti-teacher and anti-union. Once again read the posts.
so please stick to your own beliefs
Thanks I will…..and I will change when I see people change.
But since you insist, I will answer now. I have actually been in a situation very similar to what you describe in that myself and others were bullied and did have benefits taken away. Of course none of us were happy about it but we each dealt with it in our own way.
So I should take “none of us were happy” as a no you didn’t like it. So why would you or anyone else suggest that teachers should accept it? Maybe you didn't have any power behind you as teachers did. Teachers are fighting for their rights and their futures. And just out of curiousity how did you deal with your situation in ‘your own way’? You asked earlier what I have done, well here’s three………on two separate occasions when employers wanted to either violate our rights as employees and in another cut wages, I got all the employees (all but one, a company man at one location) to walk out, quit and shut both locations down. On another occasion as part of management I helped to attempt to secretly organize a union for the employees because they were continually being lied to by head office. That one cost me my job, but I have never regretted it.
I looked and I couldn't find anywhere that said it was a democratic right to have x number of sick days per year or to get a raise every year so I don't see how democratic rights are being affected.
It was not the sick days...it was the elimination of the right to strike.
puck..........
They are both biased
Certainly they are….everyone is. If a certain auction house put regulations on sports cards that affected your business…and hurt your bottom line……you would be biased as well.
Much has been said about the teachers love for their jobs and their concerns for the children. I see nothing in their actions that shows a whole lot of either.
So your premise is……if they love their jobs and love kids then they should sacrifice anything and everything the government or the prejudiced people in the public demand? The children are fine and will continue to be. Your concept could be used against anyone in any professional job who stands up for their rights and somehow in someway someone would say they don’t care about others. Many people in most jobs are attached to others in some way or form. If oil workers went on strike and gas prices started going up people would be angry and say the oil workers didn’t care about the ordinary people. If farm workers went on strike then people would have no produce and they would be angry about that. If commercial pilots went on strike people would complain. No matter who went on strike ……somewhere someone is inconvenienced. Here’s how it works…………those who will not stand up for the democratic rights of others, do not deserve it themselves.
I have met some great teachers in my time. Those are the ones who don't care how many hours it takes; how much they have to take home, and in some cases, how much they are paid. They do it for the love.
A ‘majority’ of teachers are like that….not ‘some’…….did you not watch the video? Listen to them. However it is the government who has put them in a position that they have nothing else to use.
I presented numbers in another thread that showed how many hours teachers work in a year - excluding extracurricular hours. Even if you added two hours a day of "extras", it still would not come up to the hours that most of us work in a week, or a month, or a year, to earn our pay. The teachers' hourly wage on a per hour basis for the hours worked including "extras", would make the CAW drool with envy.
When will you be going down to the teachers union office to present those figures? Don't speak to union office people, speak to working teachers. And while you are there tell them what you said earlier. ... "Much has been said about the teachers love for their jobs and their concerns for the children. I see nothing in their actions that shows a whole lot of either." Let me know how it turns out. I would like to hear how they reply to your perspective. They certainly can't in here!
Do you know how much a cop makes in a year and actually how much time they work?….other than sitting in a cruiser or filing papers?
Do you know how many hours a fireman works compared to how many hours they just sit in a fire station?
How about how much hockey players and baseball players and basketball players make for just playing a sport they enjoy and have months of work off?
How about how many hours the average Provincial or Federal politician works and how much they get including those great pensions?
My point is there are many jobs where people make good money, do less than people in other jobs, and no one says squat about them and certainly doesn’t attack them as the teachers have been attacked and villainized.
What are the really ‘hard’ jobs in our society? Let me give you my view…jobs such as…..nurses, PSW’s, construction workers, tree planters, prison guards, ocean fishermen, doormen and doorwomen at bars, people who work in laundries, people who clean up crime scenes, long haul transport drivers…..and the list goes on an on and on. So based on your perspective and comparisons then all these people should make more money ….or….everyone else should have their wages lowered so that all people are on a level playing field.
I think you should go over the video again and pay attention to what the teachers have said.
love to tell stories
It’s my manner. I’m not sure why it seems to bother so many people. A lot of people give their ‘opinions’ about different subjects but they have never really experienced the subjects, nor do they know people who have experienced certain things. I have found myself in the position past and present where I have met and got to know a wide variety of people. In the past I met people through the things I had done and the experiences I was involved in. Some were good, some not so good. These days I meet a lot of people through business and I don’t just treat them as ‘customers’ …I like to know about their lives and experiences and opinions…..because from people ……..you learn. I have customers who long ago the job was completed and yet we still keep in touch and talk. In just the last couple of weeks I met a brother and sister couple who were going to Africa to help a village of starving people. (Today Saturday they should be landing in Africa). They have told me about the people and the problems both logistically and politically in the area after years of working there. They belong to no group either organized or religious, they just do it on their own. Also last week I met two retired RCMP officers and I’m sure I will learn views from them as time goes by.
I also come from a heritage of the spoken word and I probably inherited much of what I am and of which I am proud to be.
But I do know that just because someone has certain benefits doesn't mean that they will always be entitled to those benefits....things change.
Every situation is individual.
In the last twenty years most new postions are part time & casual with limited benefits.
Our society is increasingly heading that way. I forget the name of the economist but many years ago (back in the late 60's/early 70's) he predicted that eventually most jobs, especially workers, would be all part time and limited contract. Fewer and fewer people will have work they can depend on. As we look around us we can see that these things are happening....but first the the corporate owners and politicians must create circumstances for the dissolution of unions to weaken the people.
