Buyer claims item not as described

[avenueshopswapsell]

A buyer was interested in a high value album, which I had listed for $225 US.  He emailed all sorts of questions about it, which I answered to the best of my ability, explaining to him that I am not an expert on vinyl.  He called as well and spoke to my boss, who examined the record, as I did, and we could see no issues with it.  I had sent some extra pictures to the potential buyer, he had asked about what he saw as "spots" on the vinyl, which were not apparent to either myself or my boss, but  were some glare spots from the camera's flash in some pictures, which I explained to him.  He sent several more emails and finally offered $165, which we accepted.  He sent more emails after that, making sure that I followed LP shipping standards, which I googled and followed.

Now, he has received the album, states the shipping was fine, but that he sees spots and fingerprints all over the vinyl.  He states that he has used some sort of cleaner on the vinyl and the spots are still there.  We offered a full refund, providing that he sends the album back at his cost.  Several emails later, he states that he has gone ahead and purchased a "compound" at the cost of $35 and if that doesn't work to remove the spots and fingerprints, he wants a refund plus the cost of the compound.  All this among ranting and raving that if "I don't know vinyl, then I shouldn't sell vinyl".  

My question is, can he apply for "item not as received"?  My boss is refusing the refund at this point because we don't know what kind of cleaner or compound this buyer has used on the album and what the condition of it will be when it is returned.

Any ideas about what will happen if we refuse the return and he applies to Ebay for "item not as received"?  Would the item be considered to be in the same condition as it was when purchased?

[pjcdn2005]

There is never 100% certainty about how ebay is going to rule and lately they haven't been too helpful for some sellers when the item they received back was not in the same condition.

This is just my opinion but I think that if you have any chance of fighting an item not as described claim would be if you could get the claim closed before the item is returned by talking to a cs rep and asking them to look at the messages between the two of you showing that the condition of the vinyl has been altered. Don't escalate the claim online as it's likely that a bot will automatically rule in the buyers favour and when you refuse a return and ebay rules in the buyers favour, they get a refund without a return.

But I would also suggest  that if they do file an item not as described claim and you are not willing to accept the return and pay for return shipping, that you first explain the situation on the sellers board on the .com discussion board. There are quite a few more sellers there who are more familiar with how to fight a claim.

[anguscoinshop]

Buyers rule supreme. Refund add him to your blocked list and move on.

Stubbornness is expensive.

Time is money, move on.

[hlmacdon]

This would be enough to set off some alarm bells. The buyer has potentially physically altered the item with an unknown cleaning solution, and would certainly be doing so with a compound. There is nothing to stop him applying for item not as received, but it would work in your favor if he does so on the basis of his communication to date. Wait for a case to be opened, then call the trust and safety department and explain you have a buyer who has physically altered an item and has opened a case. They can close out the case in your favor immediately, preventing any negative feedback or seller defects. This should be quite clear cut, and trust and safety is usually quite reasonable with these sort of circumstance.

Another relative who sells on here frequently encounters this problem with buyers trying to abuse this for free product and has had very good interactions with the trust and safety people. I should stress that you would be a better judge whether this is suspicious activity given the totality of your communication with the buyer. Remember to keep your communications professional without committing to, or appearing to commit to, anything that you don't want to. Again I will stress talk to the trust and safey department, who you will get on the phone if you follow the selling -> resolving selling problems -> report a member work flow under the contact us customer service options on the website.

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

Maybe it's just me, but asking a million questions and then haggling from  $225 -> $165 would've immediately set off red flags in my head and I'd have refused to sell to this buyer. Depending on the politeness of the buyer I might have added them to BBL too. 

[avenueshopswapsell]

Ugh...so now the buyer wants to return the item, claiming it was "Doesn't match description or photos" which is total BS.

In the comments section, he admits to using 2 different compounds and some machine to clean the LP, so offer of return for refund is off the table on this end.  I mean, you can't buy a pair of jeans, cut and hem them and then return them because you decided they don't look good on you.  The LP is not in the same condition as when it left here.

So, I call Ebay, unable to find a number for Trust and Safety, I just call the general line.  I was told to let the return request expire and that it will then be escalated and Ebay will investigate.

The guy on the phone ensures me that I will get the opportunity to tell my side of the issue.  Hopefully that is true.

I did give the buyer the option to return the item for a full refund before he treated it and he refused, maybe that will work in my favour.

Any ideas?  Is Ebay telling me the truth that I will get the opportunity to tell my side?  Or will they just side with the buyer?

Anyone have the number for Trust and Safety?

[rose-dee]

---

@avenueshopswapsell wrote:

So, I call Ebay, unable to find a number for Trust and Safety, I just call the general line.  I was told to let the return request expire and that it will then be escalated and Ebay will investigate.

The guy on the phone ensures me that I will get the opportunity to tell my side of the issue.  Hopefully that is true.

---

While this may be true on the face of it, I think it may result in an automatic defect for you once the matter is escalated.  

I wouldn't think insurance would apply in this instance even if it was sent via a tracked service, since the item may have been altered or damaged by the recipient, not during transit.  If the item is damaged beyond being re-saleable, is there any point in having the buyer return it? 

You're in a very unfortunate spot.  Perhaps someone else has a suggestion for contacting Trust and Safety directly, I'm afraid I don't.  

[pjcdn2005]

 I was told to let the return request expire and that it will then be escalated and Ebay will investigate.

Bad advice because more often than not a bot will decide in the case and in that situation, it will be in the buyers favour. You will also receive an unresolved case defect which is something you really want to avoid. I still stand by my advice given in post 2 as to explaining your situation on the .com board as they have more experience with handling problems like this. 

If you originally told the buyer through the return request process to return the item, then that might cause ebay to force you to accept the return but I would talk to them again and show them that the buyer has altered the item since you requested the return.  The request needs to be closed while you are on the phone with the rep otherwise if the buyer 'asks ebay to step in' you will likely have to refund without a return.

I don't believe that there is a way for you to contact Trust and Safety directly.

[tikkitutu]

I'm going through this very same thing right now with a gold chain. I hope someone can offer some answers for the seller. I don't understand how the buyers can get away with this. They say buyers rule well sellers are also buyers. My opinion is as this continues to be the trend of allowing people to commit fraud against sellers more and more people will stop selling on eBay. Just my opinion.

[avenueshopswapsell]

Well, I will keep you posted, the Ebay Money Back Guarantee states:

"The buyer must return the item in the same condition in which it was received." 

Which this album is not, and the buyer states that in the comments section of the return request.  It will not be in the same condition when it is returned, because he has applied 2 different types of compound to the item.

• FINGERS CROSSED!  He should not get away with this.

[avenueshopswapsell · Accepted solution]

Well, well, well, after much worrying about this, I received a message at 2:31 pm EST that the buyer had escalated the request for refund and that Ebay would let me know the outcome in 48 hours.  I called immediately and was told that Ebay has decided in favour of the buyer (inside of 15 minutes...obviously a bot)  I told the rep that the buyer had stated in the comments section of the request that he had indeed altered the item.  I was then transferred to Jarrod in the appeals department and he OVERTURNED EBAY'S DECISION stating that they had ruled in favour of the buyer in error!

Hooray!  One for the little guy!

[maximus7001]

Now for the big question. Can he leave you a neg now that he lost the case? If so can you get it removed?

Also had a look at the last 2 negs you got and it looks like you have grounds for getting those removed. Did you try?

[avenueshopswapsell]

In the message I received from Ebay today it stated that any feedback left regarding this transaction would be removed.

For the other 2 negative feedback, I did make a request to change the most recent and it was ignored by the buyer.  Can I call Ebay and ask them to remove it?  

[pjcdn2005]

It won't hurt to try. They can check and see that the buyer only paid for one item and that they requested the other two be cancelled. If the feedback was given longer than 30 days, it might be more difficult to get it removed as I think they do have a timeline on removal.

[rose-dee]

---

avenueshopswapsell wrote:

Well, well, well, after much worrying about this, I received a message at 2:31 pm EST that the buyer had escalated the request for refund and that Ebay would let me know the outcome in 48 hours.  I called immediately and was told that Ebay has decided in favour of the buyer (inside of 15 minutes...obviously a bot)  I told the rep that the buyer had stated in the comments section of the request that he had indeed altered the item.  I was then transferred to Jarrod in the appeals department and he OVERTURNED EBAY'S DECISION stating that they had ruled in favour of the buyer in error!

Hooray!  One for the little guy! 

---

Well, that is really good news!

I was reading this thread with dismay, thinking that a similar scenario could play out with any seller where a valuable and delicate item was concerned.  

Mind you, I have to wonder how many buyers would actually be honest enough to state in the comments to the refund request (as your buyer did) that they had altered or damaged the item?  I'm glad for you that this turned out the way it did.  

So you will not be obliged to refund, but I'd keep an eye on your FB and pounce on eBay if they don't follow through with their promise to remove it, after all this trouble and concern you've been through, not to mention the waste of your time.  

Oh yes, and I completely agree that you should try to get the other two negative FB comments removed that had to do with a cancellation.  EBay should be able to check the cancellation records on those transactions (if it isn't too far in the past - as 'pj' mentioned).