
08-08-2013 02:11 PM
Anybody else feel like they are being enslaved by Ebay with their new policies? Wow, I am being high fees to have them put limitations on my account. Being a power seller, like so many of you, it is so unfortuante we are being treated this way. Are we supposed to be treated this way? Makes you wonder why I opened my own site and used other alternative to end the madness. Funny think is now I get to keep all the FVF.
08-09-2013 01:30 PM - edited 08-09-2013 01:32 PM
"CLAIM that the shipping is FREE, that is misleading."
I think that is the problem: different perspectives.
When eBay lists an item and displays "free shipping" it does not mean the seller claims shipping is free.
The way I see it, it means that specific listing does not have extra shipping while other listings do have extra shipping. I see it more as a mean to compare many listings in a search result page than claims by individual sellers.
So one listing will show $500 + $50 (domestic) shipping
the next may be $550 free (domestic) shipping
followed by $520 + $30 (domestic) shipping
In that context, "free shipping" is not misleading but informative. It helps compare one listing to others.
I still remember the "good old days" (prior to my retirement) when I charged a flat $2 for shipping on the original transaction (regardless of value) and all additional purchases combined on the same payment were eligible to "free shipping" - meaning no additional shipping charge was involved, I absorbed it.
Now, let us not kid ourselves - this is business - the buyer always paid for shipping one way or the other as the "shipping subsidy" was built into the price (margins adjusted). If my annual shipping subsidy was $6,000 and my annual sales $200,000, then 3% of the gross margin was allocated to shipping subsidy. Many sellers work similarly with self-insurance.
The other reality on eBay is that about 25%/30% of transactions are still on the auction format. When a seller shows "free shipping" on an auction listing, is it?
It is not black and white.
PS - And, as you know, it is cheaper for eBay TRS sellers to offer "free shipping" (shipping costs built in the selling price) than charge extra. Not only do sellers save FVF, eBay also offers them better exposure and the vast majority of buyers prefer "free shipping"; not because they are stupid or misrepresented. They just like it better because more and more online business works that way.
If you can't fight them, join them!
08-09-2013 02:01 PM
This free shipping discussion will go on forever.
The last time time we had this discussion... I tried to find a definition for free shipping on eBay... None found.
It is the sellers that defined free shipping as shipping included in the price of the item.
In a true sense this "shipping included definition" is not true free shipping where buyer pays absolutely no cost for shipping.
True free shipping
List an item at $500 with free shipping ... one item out of 3000 listings on eBay
Sell this item for $500... and buyer pays no... yes ..... no cost for shipping.
Remember this was only one item listed with free shipping.....
All of the other items had shipping as a value to be paid by the buyer....
Now if I sell 800 items over the next 12 months... The cost of shipping that $500 item is spread across those 800 sold items...
and if the cost of shipping that $500 item was $24.00
Then that $24.00 was spread over 800 sold items... or 3 cents per item sold.
This is true free shipping for one item... and is not shipping included in the price of an item sold.
Too many sellers sell only on eBay... and no where else.. eBay is their only sales venue.
If they put all of their items with free shipping then
business ethics go out the window....
Free shipping is absolute... Buyer pays no cost... absolutely no cost ... for shipping.....
08-09-2013 02:07 PM
Major businesses such as Walmart and more only offer free shipping in very select situations....
A Major part of their business is out of a B & M situation..... Selling face-to-face with a customer covers the cost of free shipping in those select situations.
The price of an item in the store is the same as that offered with free shipping..... but the overhead is different..store versus non-store inventory....
eBay is safe...eBay has never defined free shipping.....
It is the sellers who misinterpret.... and apply free shipping in situations where it should be be stated as free shipping.
08-09-2013 02:56 PM
Funny you should say that, Ebay told me last night to do just that, Hide it in the price.
08-09-2013 03:11 PM
"Hide it in the price."
Translation: incorporate the cost of packaging and shipping into your overall gross margin, just as you do for your eBay fees, your PayPal fees, your insurance, your losses, your time and other selling and marketing expenses.
Words may be different but the result is always the same, on eBay or elsewhere: the buyer pays for your cost of the product, all associated expenses (whether itemized or not) and your profit.
The only real question here is: is it necessary to itemize some of those expenses such as shipping and handling. Do buyers prefer to see those charges separately or not?
Whenever I look at my hydro bill, I go nuts:
Electricity
- Summer on-peak $xx
- Summer mid-peak $xx
- Summer off-peak $xx
Hydro debt retirement $xx
Delivery $xx
Regulatory charges $xx
Ontario Clean Energy Bebefit -$xx
HST $xx
Total Due: $xxx
Personally, I would much prefer to see the same total on only one line since there is nothing I can do about the itemized charges.
08-09-2013 03:23 PM
The customer views "free" as lacking in additional charges.
I had a guy just screaming at me because $7 was cheaper than $7. Huh? His argument was that beer at the beer vendor was $7 no tax. He refused to pay the $6.50 plus tax = $7 because it was too much.
He wasn't gonna give me the $7, taxes included, at the liquor store, no sirree, he was going to the beer vendor where it was $7 no tax and therefore cheaper.
He was still paying the same taxes and the same deposit. He just did not see it in the price because they were not additional charges. That taught me a heck of a lot about customers and how they see prices.
08-09-2013 05:17 PM
@gifts_of_elegance wrote:You can't do that. Read "Truth In Advertising". If you say its FREE then it must be FREE and not added on to the purchase price. It is unlawful..
Perhaps you should read my post again. I did not say anything about free shipping. I suggested hiding part of the shipping cost in the item cost.
Or are you suggesting that doing that is illegal too?
Either way, I have to disagree.
Many retailers have free shipping and I am sure that they are not providing it at their own expense. Shipping is just another expense like
rent, supplies, labour, etc and their items are priced so that they can make a profit after all expenses.
08-10-2013 12:21 AM
inuk - Ya gotta write that one up for Not Always Right .com. Wow.
08-10-2013 01:37 AM
@pierrelebel wrote:"Hide it in the price."
Translation: incorporate the cost of packaging and shipping into your overall gross margin, just as you do for your eBay fees, your PayPal fees, your insurance, your losses, your time and other selling and marketing expenses.
Words may be different but the result is always the same, on eBay or elsewhere: the buyer pays for your cost of the product, all associated expenses (whether itemized or not) and your profit.
The only real question here is: is it necessary to itemize some of those expenses such as shipping and handling. Do buyers prefer to see those charges separately or not?
Whenever I look at my hydro bill, I go nuts:
Electricity
- Summer on-peak $xx
- Summer mid-peak $xx
- Summer off-peak $xx
Hydro debt retirement $xx
Delivery $xx
Regulatory charges $xx
Ontario Clean Energy Bebefit -$xx
HST $xx
Total Due: $xxx
Personally, I would much prefer to see the same total on only one line since there is nothing I can do about the itemized charges.
I can certainly relate to your comment regarding the hydro bills, but then I believe there is some sort of statutory or regulatory obligation for hydro utilities to disclose the breakdown. Fortunately that's not yet the case with eBay.
I sympathize with the OP, having struggled with the issue of so-called "free" shipping - whether to either eliminate shipping charges on some items (absorbing it through others), or incorporate some or all of the shipping cost into the price of most items.
My opinion is that the latter strategy is not as effective, particularly for Canadian sellers, unless you have a lot of "elbow room" in your prices - meaning either great margins already, or higher-value items that can stand a few dollars added to their pricing. Sooner or later your prices will have to compete with U.S. sellers in your category, and chances are their prices will be lower even if they include "hidden" shipping charges. I think Canadian sellers really have to think strategically about this issue.
Suggesting that incorporating shipping cost into item cost is somehow illegal, as one poster has said, is erroneous. It may be unethical in some cases, but the buyer (as in "Inuk's" $7 beer story) will ultimately decide whether price + shipping or price per se looks like the better deal.
And, Pierre, hydro bills are never a good deal, so just look at the final line and ignore the rest. Life is too short...
08-10-2013 10:54 AM
EBay just removed 15,000 sellers who weren't up to snuff.
IMO 3 of the criteria : Shipping Time, Shipping Cost, and Communication are just so much fluff.
What really matters is Item as Described.
A high percentage of 1's and 2's in that rating should warrant a thorough investigation of the seller.
Some buyers don't read descriptions and therefore some low ratings are not deserved, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see the difference nickety split.
A year down the road you're not going to remember if you had to wait an extra week for your trinket, but you're going to remember if you bought something that wasn't as described.
The rest if forgivable.
Concealing damage etc. Is not.
08-10-2013 11:19 AM
A high percentage of 1's and 2's in that rating should warrant a thorough investigation of the seller.
I somehow have the feeling a lot of these sellers were investigated & were probably part of the group that were eliminated from eBay.
but you're going to remember if you bought something that was not as described.
Never read that previously on the boards. Is that an original statement ?
08-10-2013 11:23 AM
Sure......... All of my statements are original statements.......
08-10-2013 11:42 AM
LOL, Sometimes too Original.
08-10-2013 03:04 PM
Alrighty then.
12-20-2013 12:18 AM
What is a seller to do if the shipping cost is always equal to or more then what the item is selling for ?
I cant simply offer free shipping as I loose money , And if I List as charging for shipping , ebay over charges me in fees because of this dam final value thing , at the end of the day I still loose money .
I have plenty of product but will loose money at this rate . and I cant sell my products for less then what I am asking . after I pay for my innovatory , I am lucky if I make a $5 profit after ebay gouges me .
12-20-2013 06:43 AM
What is a seller to do?
I used to sell a lot of sheet music at about $5 each....
With a FVF on shipping... I stopped selling anything much less than $15... I do have a few items selling for less than $15, but nothing at less than $10.
My adjustment was to find something new to sell on eBay... and that is what I did
Many sellers have found it difficult to sell low priced items on eBay... many still sell but must sell a lot in order for selling on eBay to be profitable... the dollar store concept.
Others give up
and
others like me make an adjustment....
12-20-2013 10:03 AM
Yes, making constant adjustments is paramount to survive in competitive categories in the New eBay World.
I think we are moving to a model where the twenty dollar average would be needed to survive unless you are selling in volume.
However nothing wrong with a few inexpensive items to drive traffic to your store.
Already planning, I'm sure everyone is, for the New Year as postal rates will be increasing in less than a month.
12-20-2013 05:40 PM
"FREE SHIPPING" means that the buyers don't have to pay anything for shipping after they bid or buy at the starting price or buy it now price. The cost of shipping can be inside the starting price or buy it now price.
When I see any items with "free shipping" it doesn't matter if the shipping costs are included in the starting price or buy it now price, I accept them. That is what it means for me.
12-20-2013 10:38 PM
The lower priced items pay the bills.
while
The higher priced items make the profit
12-20-2013 10:43 PM
New Postal rates.... It took my US buyers about 6 months to adjust.
Free shipping.... eBay does not define what free shipping is in all of its published information
It is the sellers on eBay who have applied their own definition of free shipping... shipping included....