eBay

musicyouneed · ‎05-19-2023

Hi I sent a Brand New sealed CD to a buyer, they received it on April 10/23. I was just notified by my address pick up in the US that today they just received the item back: return to sender. Looks like the item was put in the mail on May 8/23 and received May 19/23 at my mail drop. I have never heard from the buyer, they did receive the item, and a month later put it back in the mail, RTS. I have to drive 60 miles and pay $3.50 to pick it up. I am not sure it is has been opened and no longer is a sealed CD. What to do?

msau4301 · ‎05-19-2023

You don't say if the buyer had ever requested a refund (though sounds like they didn't since you don't mention it). If they didn't it could mean they weren't the one that sent it back.

I had an item returned with big black marker through the name and arrow pointing return to sender. It had not been opened, apparently the buyer was no longer living at that address (after a messy split up!) so the ex-partner on seeing their name just crossed it out and marked return (meaning they wanted nothing to do with the person and couldn't even bother, nor wanted to contact them) so they just returned. The weird thing in my case was it just ended back in my mail box (no postage due) which made me think "return to sender" can sometimes mean the item travels back for free.

If no return label was paid for, no correspondence from buyer yet at all I would wait it out and see if you hear anything. Don't rush over if you don't have to and are not out any money. At least wait out the time your pick up address holds items for. Then decide if the value of the item is worth the drive and your time to retrieve it.

marnotom! · ‎05-19-2023

I agree with @msau4301 that this could well have been returned by somebody other than the buyer due to the buyer no longer residing at the address.

Unfortunately, if the buyer hasn't been in touch with you about this transaction, you're likely going to have to retrieve it in order to get a better idea of why it was returned.

Sounds as though there might be a story behind all this worthy of a Civil Wars ditty.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎05-19-2023

@musicyouneed wrote:
Hi I sent a Brand New sealed CD to a buyer, they received it on April 10/23. I was just notified by my address pick up in the US that today they just received the item back: return to sender. Looks like the item was put in the mail on May 8/23 and received May 19/23 at my mail drop. I have never heard from the buyer, they did receive the item, and a month later put it back in the mail, RTS. I have to drive 60 miles and pay $3.50 to pick it up. I am not sure it is has been opened and no longer is a sealed CD. What to do?

@musicyouneed

You may be able to call the depot where the parcel is being held for pick up and they can give you a heads up as to why it was returned. Then it's your call if it is worth the drive. Most likely someone that forgot to update their address. If it was delivered to the wrong address it should have got put back into the mail stream for correcting. I had a letter to the USA returned to me a few years ago. Confirmed with buyer address was correct and resent. Had to replace the stamp to resend but wrote it off in that case as cost of doing business and doodlely happens.

-Lotz

musicyouneed · ‎05-19-2023

The item was ordered March 31, delivered Apr 10 and the RTS was May 8 and not received back until May 19. I sort of have to go down to pick it up and at that time I will see what's up. I get charged $3.50 USD anyways and then after 7 days a storage amount for each day after that. They have not contacted me at all, very strange. Even if they had moved, wouldn't you contact the seller and say something. I am not going to contact them at all, just wanting to be prepared and know what my obligations are?

Now if I go down and the CD was opened by the buyer what are my responsibilites to them. What if they claim that they never received it, when it clearly shows it was delivered to them. They can't claim it wasn't as described, as it was a new CD, packed very well. Maybe they didn't like the music, (happens), and they are now returning it not in the condition it was received?

marnotom! · ‎05-19-2023

@musicyouneed wrote:

The item was ordered March 31, delivered Apr 10 and the RTS was May 8 and not received back until May 19. I sort of have to go down to pick it up and at that time I will see what's up. I get charged $3.50 USD anyways and then after 7 days a storage amount for each day after that.

Long weekend for us coming up, and the weekend after that is a long weekend in the States. Hope you have a bit of patience for the drive down to Blaine.

@musicyouneed wrote:

They have not contacted me at all, very strange. Even if they had moved, wouldn't you contact the seller and say something. I am not going to contact them at all, just wanting to be prepared and know what my obligations are?

I try not to judge in situations like this. I'm going to assume at this point that there was stuff going on in this person's life that made a $20-25 online purchase seem like small potatoes in comparison.

@musicyouneed wrote:

Now if I go down and the CD was opened by the buyer what are my responsibilites to them. What if they claim that they never received it, when it clearly shows it was delivered to them. They can't claim it wasn't as described, as it was a new CD, packed very well. Maybe they didn't like the music, (happens), and they are now returning it not in the condition it was received?

I do wonder how well someone would be able to replicate/repair your packing job in order to do a "return to sender" for an opened package? You've probably mentioned it elsewhere but I don't remember: How do you package your CDs for mailing?

Depending on what you learn about the return upon receipt of the CD, you may want to get in touch with the buyer after that. There's such a thing as overplanning. I'm sometimes guilty of it myself. Just deal with this one small bite at a time.

recped · ‎05-19-2023

I would do nothing, toss the package aside for 6 months and then resell it unless you hear from the buyer.

I actually have an RTS package from a buyer in Norway that has been sitting around for almost 20 years!

"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎05-19-2023

It is my understanding that refusing a package voids buyer protection. You may want to clarify with an eBay CSR.

In a scenario where it is the fault of the carrier, I would usually just bite the bullet and re-send or refund as the customer desires. When you sell online, things happen that are outside of your control, and you're not going to win every transaction. If the buyer didn't operate in bad faith, I'm not going to put $10 ahead of doing the right thing.

If it is the fault of the buyer, I think a fair thing to do is usually to refund with any costs associated with restocking the item removed. Maybe even withhold a small restocking fee to account for wasted time.

The fact that your return address is not in Canada complicates things. Even know this appears to be a more expensive item, I can't imagine it is worth the time and cost to pick it up. If what you said happened did happen (the buyer RTS without contacting you), I think it's entirely on the buyer. It's difficult to put a value on driving the 60 miles, and it would almost certainly exceed the cost of the item since it looks like you sold this for 55 CAD. I can't think of a resolution that the buyer would be happy with that would also be fair to you.

Given how strange of a thing this is to do, there is a small chance that the buyer may have returned your package but re-sealed it and swapped out the CD for a less valuable one. While this probably didn't happen, it's something to consider when factoring in whether to drive 60 miles to get it.

In this scenario, I would wait for the buyer to contact you with their side of the story and go from there. If they are covered by eBay, you have to refund them and eat the loss. If they aren't covered by eBay, it's up to you doing whatever you ethically think is right.

While you know for sure that a package was returned, something people who read this need to know about USPS is that they make mistakes with tracking that can sometimes result in language on the tracking page that would make you think the item was never picked up or returned to sender. If you ever see a return to sender on the tracking page, and you haven't heard anything from the customer or received a package, it's probably a mistake. In that scenario, I would just wait until the customer contacts you. Obviously, this isn't the case here, because your US PO Box received a package, but it's information that might be helpful down the road to someone else.

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎05-19-2023

Reach out to eBay, ideally using their for business page on Twitter/Facebook. Explain that the item was successfully delivered, and then returned to sender a month later without any communication. Ask them if the item is still covered by the buyer protection since it was technically refused by the buyer.

That's all you really need to know. If they say the buyer isn't covered, just leave it alone until the buyer contacts you. You can then handle it in whatever way you think is ethical based on the buyer's side of why it was refused.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-20-2023

I would wait and see what happens. If the buyer opens an INR and you reply to the claim with the tracking number showing delivery, then you would win as the item was delivered.

If the buyer claims the item was not as described and enters the tracking number to show that it was returned, that is a different situation. So until you know what and if they are going to do anything, I would just wait.

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎05-20-2023

If the buyer opens an item not described, I am fairly sure eBay would close it manually if contacted. The buyer already rejected the package.

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Buyer-Central/Refusing-a-delivery/td-p/434781 - Old thread, but scroll down to Tyler's post. He verifies that refusing a package voids Buyer Protection.

They basically just need to verify that the buyer no longer qualifies for protection, and then when the buyer contacts them with more info, resolve it as they see fit. It's not my place to suggest to them what I think is ethical or not in this scenario. But in terms of the objective stuff, like what eBay will do, I don't think they have anything to worry about. They may have to manually get cases closed by providing the tracking info, that's about it.

reallynicestamps · ‎05-20-2023

Undeliverable mail is not eligible for the Money Back Guarantee,

You technically won't owe the buyer a penny when you get it back, whatever the condition.

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?...

So.

Confusing.

But a win of sorts.

You get the item back and can keep the money.

If your conscience allows you.

musicyouneed · ‎05-21-2023

I just noticed that I have it set up that I do not accept returns on the US purchases, of course if it was not as described I don't have a choice, but she has to file a SNAD. I am not how long she has to do that. The buyer has not filed a case, I am just wondering if I have it set up as no returns, maybe she couldn't do that on this particular listing (changed her mind). I will pick up the CD next week and because, of the outlay of cash to PU, plus possibly postage due, 2 hours of driving and the gas used, I won't be clicking the refund button.

reallynicestamps · ‎05-21-2023

You can have a No Returns policy- it means that if the buyer does not want the item for any reason, you do not want to have it back. In effect, you abandon it.

You CANNOT have a No Refunds policy. The Money Back Guarantee overrides your No Returns.
Even if you have a No Returns policy, however, you are entitled to demand the return of the disputed item before refunding.

The main question in that case becomes "who pays for the return shipping?" It will probably be you.

marnotom! · ‎05-21-2023

I’m still wondering if it’s possible to repack the CD in a manner that would make it look as though it hadn’t been opened up and thus make a “return to sender” possible.

I think this worry about a SNAD is unnecessary.

flipistics · ‎05-21-2023

@marnotom! wrote:
I’m still wondering if it’s possible to repack the CD in a manner that would make it look as though it hadn’t been opened up and thus make a “return to sender” possible.

I think this worry about a SNAD is unnecessary.

One or two of my buyers have done this before for domestic lettermail. It's worked perfectly. I'm not sure the legality of it, but Canada Post could charge return postage if they wanted to so...

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎05-21-2023

If you return a package as return to sender, or write return to sender on it and drop it in a mail box - the post office doesn't know how the item was originally packaged. A buyer could theoretically open a bubble mailer or box and tape it.

I doubt it is a nefarious criminal scheme. More likely, it's someone who is ignorant of how returns work on eBay. It's still not worth driving 60 miles for that one package though because there is no way to know.

marnotom! · ‎05-21-2023

@flipistics @ilikehockeyjerseys

The reason I asked how the CD was packaged is that I when I've purchased CDs from sellers who specialize in that category, they generally use self-sealing mailers of some sort that really need to be sliced and diced in order to get to the contents. While I agree that most postal employees don't really have any incentive to care too much about a package with one or two taped areas, they might not be able to get away with ignoring one that's been heavily retaped.

I can see why @musicyouneed feels they need to drive down to Washington state to retrieve the package ASAP, though. Not only do they have to pay US$3.50 for the return of an item sent by media mail, but their holding agent charges a storage fee that could add up in a hurry. I'm sure they'll find other reasons to make the trip worth their while.

musicyouneed · ‎05-21-2023

"You can have a No Returns policy- it means that if the buyer does not want the item for any reason, you do not want to have it back. In effect, you abandon it."

I am a little confused regarding this statement. So if a buyer doesn't like the music on a CD and wants to return it because of that reason only and I do not accept returns, do I have to refund them?

flipistics · ‎05-21-2023

@musicyouneed wrote:
"You can have a No Returns policy- it means that if the buyer does not want the item for any reason, you do not want to have it back. In effect, you abandon it."

I am a little confused regarding this statement. So if a buyer doesn't like the music on a CD and wants to return it because of that reason only and I do not accept returns, do I have to refund them?

They've worded that poorly. You can have a no returns policy which means you don't accept returns. However, if the item is flagged as being INAD or something similar eBay will force you to accept the return anyway (not to mention Paypal or credit cards). IMO all it really does is encourage the buyer to lie about the reason for the return, which probably hurts the seller more than just accepting the return.

There is an option where you can automatically have the buyer refunded and allowed to keep the item if it's under a certain dollar value and they want to return it (effectively abandon it). That's something else though. It also doesn't prevent what occurred in this instance.