defect for shipping cost?

I hope someone can clarify a point about defects. Cost of a small box shipped to international sites by airmail, untracked and uninsured,  is $23 and with tracking and insurance cost is about $80. Say, because of relatively high value of sold item,  I have decided to ship only tracked and insured and the  buyer agrees to pay the $80. My question is this. If buyer agrees and then  complains about shipping cost, can his dissatisfaction about high cost of shipping still lead to a defect? This whole defect issue has become  a tangled fishing line.

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defect for shipping cost?

Hi -

 

Under the new rules the "Shipping Cost" DSR has no impact on seller ratings -- it won't generate defects, but is now for seller reference only.  The "Shipping Time" DSR can result in a defect, but only if you get a rating of 1.  

 

However, you could still get a defect due to high shipping costs (or, more accurately, as a result of a buyer perceiving that shipping costs are high) if that buyer leaves neutral or negative FB as a consequence.  Even neutral FB is now counted as a defect (unfairly IMO, but that's the new reality).

 

So you have to know the tolerance level of your particular buyer demographic where shipping charges are concerned and weigh that against the likelihood that your type of buyers will complain via FB -- a bit of a balancing act. 

 

By the way, since we no longer have to fear the "Communications" DSRs affecting our seller ratings/status, I'd suggest one way to avoid poor FB due to shipping charges is to communicate directly with the buyer through eBay messages (when you thank them for their purchase), indicating the services that the shipping method will include (i.e. insurance, tracking, and/or delivery confirmation), the fact that you are (hopefully?) charging the buyer exactly what Canada Post is charging you and no more, giving them the tracking number, and the estimated delivery time.  This may go a long way to avoiding "sticker shock" and dissatisfaction over shipping costs at the buyer's end.  Yes, the premium service is primarily for your own benefit as a seller, but I do feel it gives the buyer some level of comfort as well, especially if they can follow the tracking themselves. 

 

The other alternative - perhaps a bit more risky for you where an expensive item is concerned - is to forget about tracking and insure the item for full value through a 3rd party insurer.

 

You're right, the new defect system is a tangled, complex fiasco.

Message 2 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

The only ratings that count as a defects are 

 

A rating of 1, 2, or 3 for Item as Described

 

and 

 

A rating of 1 for Shipping Time

 

 

Although buyers can leave low ratings for Communication  or Shipping and Handling charges,

 

they do not count as defects...

 

All numbers are shown in your feedback profile 

 

 

 

A negative or neutral feedback left because of high shipping costs is a defect.

 

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In a situation where the shipping cost is high....  the buyer knows the actual cost at the time of purchase

 

 

 and there should be no negative reactions.

 

I have been shipping internationally with tracking and insurance..... Buyers pay,  and they can see that the parcel has reached custom in the destination country  after about 5 weeks...

 

It also helps if the cost of the item purchased is equal to or very much higher than the cost of shipping.

 

I have actually had buyers upgrade to a more expensive airmail delivery, as opposed to surface mail..

 

International buyers are adjusting... They may not like it... However, if they want it  they will pay

 

 

 

Message 3 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

I notice that although you ship your items outside of Canada, they are only showing a shipping price for Canada. It is really important that you set up shipping prices for all countries that you ship to so that when a buyer sees the listing they know right away what it will cost to ship the item. The less surprises there are..the happier the buyer will be...hopefully 🙂

 

 

 

 

Message 4 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I notice that although you ship your items outside of Canada, they are only showing a shipping price for Canada. It is really important that you set up shipping prices for all countries that you ship to so that when a buyer sees the listing they know right away what it will cost to ship the item. The less surprises there are..the happier the buyer will be...hopefully 🙂

 

 

 

 


If the OP doesn't specify International shipping charges in the listing then a 1, 2, or 3 in shipping charges WILL be a defect.

 

The exemption for this dsr only applies if shipping charges are specified up front in the listing in the proper place.

 

 

I still don't understand why the OP is only offering to Canada & USA and I really can't comprehend ANY reason to use a more expensive tracked service for what the OP is selling.

 

The result of that the OP is doing will mean that the "good" buyers will not be buying and only the "poor quality" buyers will be left for them to deal with.

 

.

 

 

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 5 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

The comments made above  are are very helpful. To clarify what has been said, buyer pays only what CP charges for shipping and for most sales, to lower costs, I no longer add on handling fee. When item is about $100 or above, for my comfort I will ship with tracking only. Most sales for these higher priced items are likely to come from  international buyers and shipping will be about $80.

I always detail  cost of shipping (USA, Canada, International ) directly into the listing description so buyers who read the full description will know cost before bidding.

 

         Some international buyers who have paid $80 expressed their amazement to me but so far they did not leave negative FB. My dilemma is that If I sell only to USA/Canada, I lower considerably the size of quality buyer pool but with each shipment costing $80, I can expect an upset buyer. If I myself  bought a $100 item that I really wanted and it cost $80 to get it, I would pay but I would not do so without being a bit upset. The seller and not CP would be the focus for my reaction. My usual paranoid way of thinking may or not lead to defect, but (as usual) makes me feel queasy.

Message 6 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

If the OP doesn't specify International shipping charges in the listing then a 1, 2, or 3 in shipping charges WILL be a defect.

 

The exemption for this dsr only applies if shipping charges are specified up front in the listing in the proper place.

 

Recped, is that specified in the spring update or somewhere else? I don't remember reading about that.

Message 7 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

You are correct that quality buyers would be my focus but I cannot overcome my inability to ship an item at $100 or more without some kind of tracking. Up to now for most higher priced items, I ship to USA/Canada only because I am not comfortable shipping internationally without tracking. Often, I have been contacted by international buyers who wanted to bid , but not pay international shipping costs. Those sales do not happen- my fault for being a low risk taker.

 

   I am impressed with your ability to sell worldwide and use CP untracked shipping. Do you so so whatever the value of item? 

Message 8 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

First....many buyers do not read the description so the price should be in the shipping area...not in the description. Many buyers will not even open the listing simply because there is no shipping cost showing in the search view.

 

Many of your listings show shipping just to Canada and the United States so you really are limiting your customer base on those items. I suspect that the type of item you sell is not a high fraud item so you really should consider selling (at least some of them) without tracking to the U.S. as you would also attract more customers that way.

 

I can understand being concerned about having an item lost but as you said...paying $80 shipping for a $100 item is a bit much. You might want to consider shipping a less expensive method and using a third party insurance company for some of those items. For a more expensive item, tracked packet would be less expensive than what you are using now and if you felt it necessary, you could top off the insurance with third party insurance.

Message 9 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

You suggestions are most helpful and sorry to be naive, but can you explain how the third party insurer works. Thanks.

Message 10 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?


@realjazz-123 wrote:

You are correct that quality buyers would be my focus but I cannot overcome my inability to ship an item at $100 or more without some kind of tracking. Up to now for most higher priced items, I ship to USA/Canada only because I am not comfortable shipping internationally without tracking. Often, I have been contacted by international buyers who wanted to bid , but not pay international shipping costs. Those sales do not happen- my fault for being a low risk taker.

 

   I am impressed with your ability to sell worldwide and use CP untracked shipping. Do you so so whatever the value of item? 


I only use tracking is it's something that comes with no extra cost or need to upgrade the service. Tracking does NOTHING for you except in cases of buyer fraud. In 15 years on eBay (and 20 years of mailorder before that) I can only recall two times where I suspected buyer fraud when a claim of Item Not Received was made and that is out of about 50,000 transactions.

 

I have had a couple more buyer fraud situation that relate to condition but tracking is meaningless in that situation. I've also had a couple of Feedback Extortion attempts, again nothing to do with tracking or any aspect of shipping.

 

Just in the past week I have shipped (untracked) $100+ items to France, Germany & Greece plus $50+ items to Chile, Sweden & Russia.

 

We both sell records, so I know that the $100 record you shipped probably cost you next to nothing, if you should lose the item you really haven't lost $100 you are really only out of pocket for the original shipping. The $100 isn't really yours until the transaction is fully complete (when the buyer has the item and is happy with it).

 

 

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 11 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

I can feel the force of your convictions and experience in your comments. Your approach is a rational one and obviously works. I could not  (up to now at least) send  untracked $50--100 records to the countries you list. To my thinking, the original cost to me of a $100 record no longer matters, because some buyer paid me $100 so it it now a $100 record. If I can convince myself that a lost shipped $100 record is not a $100 loss, my overall mailing approach will change. I very much appreciate your insights and those others who have made suggestions to my benefit.

Message 12 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

You can purchase third party insurance online and buy it on a per item basis so you don't have to pay for a monthly or yearly policy. There are a few companies that do this...I don't use it often but when I do, I use a company called Shipsurance. I've never actually had to put in a claim so I can't say how easy that is but it is important that you read the company's terms of service. For example, if you make a claim with shipsurance, you must have proof of shipment. If I am using a service without tracking, I print my label through paypal and also print a copy of it which I then have the post office stamp and initial.

Message 13 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?


@realjazz-123 wrote:

The comments made above  are are very helpful. To clarify what has been said, buyer pays only what CP charges for shipping and for most sales, to lower costs, I no longer add on handling fee. When item is about $100 or above, for my comfort I will ship with tracking only. Most sales for these higher priced items are likely to come from  international buyers and shipping will be about $80.

I always detail  cost of shipping (USA, Canada, International ) directly into the listing description so buyers who read the full description will know cost before bidding.

 

         Some international buyers who have paid $80 expressed their amazement to me but so far they did not leave negative FB. My dilemma is that If I sell only to USA/Canada, I lower considerably the size of quality buyer pool but with each shipment costing $80, I can expect an upset buyer. If I myself  bought a $100 item that I really wanted and it cost $80 to get it, I would pay but I would not do so without being a bit upset. The seller and not CP would be the focus for my reaction. My usual paranoid way of thinking may or not lead to defect, but (as usual) makes me feel queasy.


Then, do not do that. Why are you forcing buyers to pay exorbitant shipping costs? To protect them or you? If you, from what?

 

So, you would rather do without 100 sales, than refund one (1)?

 

This is what we all call self-insurance. We take a few pennies from each sale and put it in our self-insurance jar. Compared to paying for tracking, etc, vs using self-insurance, I am $11,000 (eleven thousand dollars) ahead over the last few years.

 

All you really lose, on a claim, is the shipping cost. To me, my inventory is free as it has no cash value. I have had to refund twice in the last 1500 sales for supposed INR. Ultimately, all I lost, was the shipping cost, total of $40. $40 (forty dollars) in the last two years.

 

How much would you pay to insure yourself against a $40 loss?

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Message 14 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

From the seller update... Link to 

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/sellerinformation/news/springupdate2014/sellerstandards.html

 

 

We have the following statement..

 

  • Shipping cost and communication detailed seller ratings will no longer count toward your performance rating. This will protect you from low ratings for shipping cost even though the shipping charges are shown to the buyer right up front when they purchase an item.

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Where does a potential buyer see the cost of shipping?

 

Go to a listing

 

and the cost of shipping is indicated at the top of a listing, just below the price.

 

then go to the ... Shipping and Payments TAB..

 

Change the destination to an international destination....such as Germany... Click Get Rates

 

 

Now the shipping cost shown in all listings viewed by you will be shown for Germany.....  where it was for Canada previously.

 

Change the destination under the Shipping and Payments TAB, and that is the cost of shipping viewed in all listings....

 

Potential buyers see the shipping cost right at the top of each listing.

 

The shipping cost is never hidden as long as the buyer has selected his home country as the destination....

 

 

Message 15 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

Also

 

Why are low ratings for shipping cost or communication not included in the defect rate?

 

 

Over time, issues with shipping cost and communication response time have become less significant and less predictive of whether buyers will return. This is mainly due to increased seller efficiency and seller commitment to shipping promptly and offering free shipping. Also, buyers clearly see the total cost, including shipping, up front in the listing. Leaving these factors out of the calculation gives eBay and you a clearer signal of how you're doing on the factors that have the greatest impact—those mainly related to the buyer's experience once they've purchased an item.

 

Message 16 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

If the OP doesn't specify International shipping charges in the listing then a 1, 2, or 3 in shipping charges WILL be a defect.

 

The exemption for this dsr only applies if shipping charges are specified up front in the listing in the proper place.

 

Recped, is that specified in the spring update or somewhere else? I don't remember reading about that.


Yes, I'd appreciate knowing this too (even though I always specify shipping charges in my listings).  It seems logical, but I can't recall seeing it in the Spring Seller Update material. 

 

 

Message 17 of 18
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defect for shipping cost?

My last two replies takes one to the Seller Update...

 

Pertinent parts have been copied and placed in those replies.

 

There are no... I repeat NO defects associated with Shipping charges..

 

Buyers can leave low ratings.. sellers can see them...

 

But .... There is no defect associated with ratings of 1, 2 or 3

 

whether shipping within Canada, to the US or Internationally.

 

Atleast ...  I could find no such reference!!!

 

 

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