Is there a time limit on having fee's, ebay and paypal, reversed on an old transaction.

[sarahsplace100]

We sold an item last February. Rather pricey at 2600. Canadian dollars to a buyer in the UK. 

We sent the item via UPS 3 day shipping, which the buyer was aware of as tracking number was included.  The item made it to the UK, sat in customs, released and two delivery attempts were made without success.  After watching the progress of the item which was returned to the UPS warehouse, we contacted UPS and attempted to contact the buyer several times without success.  UPS policy is typically to call the package abandoned. We went through hell convincing UPS we would pay to have the item returned to us, which did eventually happen.

The buyer contacted us weeks later saying he was out of town.  I offered to fully refund (this was now April).  The buyer requested that I send again and assured me he would be in town to take delivery of the package.  We sent it out reluctantly a second time through Canada Post Express, which cost us over 100.00.

The parcel again made it to the UK. Several delivery attempts were made. I had checked off return to sender if undeliverable. Sure enough out of the blue several weeks later, Canada Post delivers the package back to my residence. After no contact from the buyer for months, it's now early November, I get a message from Paypal that a dispute had been opened. Immediately after, a second email arrives from Paypal saying they resolved the dispute, in my favor. After no contact again from the buyer, he decides to email through Ebay yesterday, asking for a full refund.

I guess my question is, if I send the buyer a refund after all this time, will I get back the fees paid to ebay and paypal?  

I did read that unless I issue a full refund, I wouldn't get a fee reversal.  The purchase included free shipping. Once. We paid the original shipping costs through UPS, paid again to have the item shipped back and then a third time through Canada Post.

If too much time has gone by to get a fee reversal, I'm tempted to ask the buyer to cover the last two shipping costs. 

Any thoughts on how to go ahead on our situation?

[cumos55]

Call Paypal  to find out how the dispute was resolved by Paypal.

Did Paypal refund the buyer.... but not from your account .... or from your account?

It is also possible that the buyer has already received a refund...

The buyer did not file an eBay claim ...  but did ask for a refund.....  Why now?

Too much time has passed for the buyer to make a claim of not received through eBay.....April to November.....  

If a refund is made ... only if Paypal did not already refund the buyer.... then you might consider to have the buyer cover all shipping costs... plus eBay and Paypal fees.....

Shipping costs include to and from the UK.... Twice to the UK and twice back to Canada....

This buyer did not pay attention to what was happening...

Do everything   carefully and logically.....

The most important thing to know is what Paypal did to resolve the dispute filed by the buyer.....

[momcqueen]

This is a very expensive and tricky situation; I'd go directly to ebay for insight on how best to handle it. 

tyler@ebay can you offer some assistance with this one, please? It's is an unique problem. 

[ypdc_dennis]

Failure to accept package mailed twice is a bit much. And then waiting so long to follow up. Not a good "buyer".

Too late to get fees reversed. Do not make a full refund.

Buyer is not covered by PayPal or eBay protection plans after all this time.

Put "buyer" on your Blocked Buyer list

https://offer.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?BidderBlockLogin

If you decide to make a refund, at most only make a partial refund.

What "buyer" paid minus all shipping costs minus ebay fees minus paypal fees minus your other costs.

-..-

[cumos55]

If buyer has already received a refund.... a possibility based on the fact that Paypal did close the original dispute...  then report buyer to eBay    

The report to eBay would focus on the buyer's asking for a refund after having been refunded  by Paypal.... if that Paypal refund happened.

Everything must be known... contact Paypal... contact eBay....

[sarahsplace100]

Thanks for your assistance.

Paypal found in my favor. He filed a dispute and lost, 6 months had passed. Both times shipped, we had full tracking and the tracking information was sent to the buyer and to paypal.

The first time shipped, UPS went out of their way to attempt additional deliveries, or to contact the buyer, after I had spoken with them. If I hadn't been in contact, the item could have been considered abandoned.

I'll reply to the buyer and tell him that I need to get some direction from Ebay before I refund. If too much time has passed for me to get the fees back, then I will probably offer to refund the full amount, minus the last two shipping costs. The first I will take responsibility for, since it was free shipping in the auction.

Very frustrating for us.

[reallynicestamps]

He sent you money for purchase and shipping.

Twice it was shipped.

Twice he did not accept the item.

Twice it was returned to you.

Although there is still a possibility that he could do a chargeback on his credit card , most cards do not offer this over the same 180 days (six months) as Paypal.

So legally, you are off the hook.

Ethically, you can't have both the money and the item.

But he owes you the shipping costs and your fees.

Subtract those from the original selling price (watch out for currency exchange and remember you were charged 3.7% by PP for accepting a foreign currency payment).

If there is anything left over, use PP's Send Money service to refund him.

I assume he is already on your Blocked Bidder List?

[tyler@ebay]

Thanks for the tag @momcqueen !

Hi @sarahsplace100 - this is definitely a tricky situation. It sounds as though the reason the PayPal dispute was closed so quickly is because it had been so long since they originally paid (coverage for PayPal extends for 180 days from the date of original payment). While from an eBay perspective we wouldn't force you to do anything with this, I agree with others here that keeping the item and the buyer's money is a bit extreme. I don't see anything wrong with giving the buyer a refund less your costs to this point. Thanks!

This is a very expensive and tricky situation; I'd go directly to ebay for insight on how best to handle it. 

tyler@ebay can you offer some assistance with this one, please? It's is an unique problem. 

[sarahsplace100]

Thanks Tyler. It was never our intention to keep the item and his money. We are honest people and I would hope that others would do the same for us in a similar situation.

The main question is, has time run out to refund AND get back the fees I paid to Ebay and Paypal. If those fees are basically lost at this point, then I will take at least a portion off what I do refund, maybe offer to split it with him.

As far as shipping costs, I feel it's fair that I'm still responsible for the initial UPS shipping, and he should be responsible for the UPS return cost to me as well as the second attempt at getting the item to him, which was at his request after he failed to take delivery the first time.

Sound reasonable?

[reallynicestamps · Accepted solution]

You can't get the fees back from PP and eBay.  And honestly, they were paid to do a job and they did it. So they shouldn't be expected to cover costs.

The fault/responsibility/blame is entirely with your flakey customer.

Which is why, when you refund him, all those costs are taken from his original payment before refunding.

All, including the shipping charges that you collected only to turn them over to the post office. All.

You should not be out a single thin dime out of all this. You are the innocent party here.

[sarahsplace100]

Thanks to  everyone for their advice.