01-13-2013 08:16 AM
This is the greatest economic problem we face.
Even though corporations are more profitable, the rank and file employees are getting a smaller share.
Wages have dropped from over 50% of the U.S. economy to 43%. Median household income dropped 12% from 2000 to 2011 - yet the U.S. economy grew by 18%.
Recipe for disaster.
01-13-2013 09:55 AM
Seems like some folks are still fixated on the paycheques of the rich and famous. The concern for the financial plight of the masses is just a mask for envy of the rich. It's a charade, Art. Your beloved Occupy Movement is as misguided and delusional as Idle No More.
01-13-2013 11:39 AM
The greatest economic problem we face is becoming competitive in a world wide economy. To accomplish that we must be satisfied to take less. Compared to just about every other nation we are rich in just about everything. Of course much of it is engrained in public and goverment debt/deficits.
Martha Hall Findlay's suggestion to raise the GST back up to 7%, a good idea Art? Hey she's a former Liberal MP so it must be!
01-13-2013 11:44 AM
"The concern for the financial plight of the masses is just a mask for envy of the rich."
That's a bit simplistic don't you think? Like saying, "The concern for one's illness is just a mask for envy of the healthy."
There is nothing delusional about the statistics showing the melt down of the middle class and the working poor's numbers swelling. When that happens while the rich are getting richer, people have a right to question what's going on.
Peace.
01-13-2013 11:52 AM
"Martha Hall Findlay's suggestion to raise the GST back up to 7%,"
I most definitely agree. It does not matter if the idea comes from a Conservative, a NDPer or a Liberal. If it right, it is right, regardless of the source.
Cutting the GST from 7% to 6% then 5% was a bad idea that did not really benefit Canadians on the long run.
Fairness to Canadians would be better served by increasing taxes on spending (GST) and lowering taxes on earning (income tax, payroll taxes).
The recent increase in Employment Insurance is a typical example that hurts most working Canadians. In the meantime, the rich and very rich save thousands of dollars a year buying fancy cars, etc... paying the lower GST.
01-13-2013 12:04 PM
The greatest economic problem we face is becoming competitive in a world wide economy. To accomplish that we must be satisfied to take less. Compared to just about every other nation we are rich in just about everything. Of course much of it is engrained in public and government debt/deficits.
We are hewers of wood and drawers of water and that will not change. When our resources run out - we are finished. Manufacturing is gone and will not be coming back. Not everyone can be in the middle class and a consumer society can only last until the money runs out. Just look South, it's going to happen.
01-13-2013 12:23 PM
It is a competitive world.
The idea of free enterprise is that some combination of work, risk, capital and ingenuity will reveal and exploit opportunities and produce a reward.
Unfortunately, our corporations are unable to follow this model for several reasons. One is they are virtually unable to take risks. Another is they are controlled by multinationals which divert capital produced in Canada - to projects in low-wage countries. Our workers are relatively less well paid each year and ingenuity fails to thrive in Canada as it is not encouraged by our corporate sector and seeks more fertile ground.
End result, an empty shell country of resource extraction and consumer goods retail.
Our media and business leaders try to sell us that Canada needs to have lower wages to be more competitive. In fact, our competitiveness is held back more by lack of research and innovation than any other factor.
01-13-2013 12:26 PM
The only ‘greed’ that needs discussing is the greed of corporations and their owners. Who cares if there is a multi-millionaire enjoying life….. as long as the people who made him a millionaire are treated fairly and equitably.
It is notable that the people who laugh at, or condemn those who are looking for fairer treatment are those who have their own businesses (and so do the wife), or someone who haves a good pension coming in from a past workplace as well as a government pension. Free money dropped in their mail box every month for as long as they live.
So to them ….they don’t care one iota if an individual or a couple are trying to make it in a world of increasing prices from food to gasoline and rent….as they are making minimum wage, while their bosses have a wealthy home and all the other toys of the rich.....provided by their work.
Then increasingly in N. America when the workers ask for better wages or unions stand up for fair treatment…..the corporate owners take their manufacturing or purchasing to other countries and use the desperate people in those countries as the new millennium slaves who they could pay even lower wages to as many of them worked in dangerous and intimidating conditions.
Without the workers……..the rich would have …….nothing!
01-13-2013 12:53 PM
Yep I know the feeling. My part time hourly wage was cut recently from $20 to $15.50 while the boss lives in a million dollar home and mine less than half that.
Do I complain, no cause I still have a job.
Come to think of it gotta go to wotk tomorrow.
01-13-2013 12:58 PM
Bleeding heart pontifications, platitudes and plagarism - you just don't get it.
Employees and unions got the big money in the 60's, 70's and 80's and it still got better and better until the mid 90's. Everyone was in the middle class. Now, however, teachers, government employees, nurses, auto makers add infinitum - get anywhere from 60K to 100K per year plus another 35 in additional perks.
They are not worth the money they are being paid.
and it is too late to equalize it cause non of them - like you -is going to buy in.
That is the main reason we do not produce anything, other countries will do it cheaper and that is not going to change. Like I said before; when our resources run out it is game over and we will be a third nation. I doubt it is too far down the road.
01-13-2013 01:55 PM
My part time hourly wage was cut recently from $20 to $15.50
Lets lay it all on the table..... you have two pensions coming in, one from Bell and the other from the government...plus investments (all of which you have talked about). And your wife has a pension as well….and maybe more. And you’re at an age now that you’re settled.
Now think of a younger person trying to get a foothold in life and all they have is a 15.00 an hour job and nothing else coming in.
It’s really easy to play with money…..when one has money. Reminds me of the line from Poolhall Junkies……’I'm a millionaire! That's the difference. I lose 80 grand I can get another 80 grand. That’s the difference, between you and me.’
Employees and unions got the big money in the 60's, 70's and 80's and it still got better and better until the mid 90's. Everyone was in the middle class. Now, however, teachers, government employees, nurses, auto makers add infinitum - get anywhere from 60K to 100K per year plus another 35 in additional perks.
You are correct and life was good, especially after WW2. However as people made more money, manufacturers realized they could get more money. Why sell a toaster to someone for 50 bucks and make x amount, when you know people can afford 125 dollars and you can make far more. And government knew people were flush so to raise taxes didn’t hurt them that much. And why sell a house for 100 grand when you know people on average can afford to spend 150 grand. And the list goes on and on of things that started to cost…..more. Then the regular workers and the union workers then seen their standard of living drop so to keep up they wanted more. And the rest of the story is in the history books.
But suddenly…..corporations found they could get manufacturing done cheaper in other countries and there was something else called ‘free trade’ which took away the protection for N. American workers. The unemployment rose as items were manufactured in other countries and N. American corporations moved their manufacturing off shore or some corporations just closed down because they could not compete with the off shore lower prices.
The middle class started ….dying. Then the banks said “here have these pieces of plastic called credit cards and you can buy now…..pay later”!!! So the people fell for it in order to keep to the lifestyle they had been accustomed to. Now……they’re in debt up to their ears!
But in all of this who didn’t lose (generally speaking)?………..the big corporations and the wealthy. Oh they made mistakes and the banks pushed the envelope too far especially in the US ….but the government was forced to bail them out or have even a worse economy than already existed.
In the end the banks are making more…the corporations are making more….and the people making less.
Like I said before; when our resources run out it is game over and we will be a third nation. I doubt it is too far down the road.
You’re correct but our resource loss is a long way away and people aren’t worried about that. Who is worried about it are the First Nations people and Bill C-45 which leaves the government open to use any Native land they see fit and the government has also drastically cut the care and preservation for a lot of the lakes and streams because they know that as more corporations go to our hidden resources these lakes and streams will be ruined.....so that rich corporations can make ....more money.
01-13-2013 03:00 PM
My part time hourly wage was cut recently from $20 to $15.50
Lets lay it all on the table..... you have two pensions coming in, one from Bell and the other from the government...plus investments (all of which you have talked about). And your wife has a pension as well….and maybe more. And you’re at an age now that you’re settled.
Now think of a younger person trying to get a foothold in life and all they have is a 15.00 an hour job and nothing else coming in.
Well that not me but it's close, so lets talk about me.
I quit High School in grade 11 and got a job as an apprentice engraver in Hamilton. I was working at a jewelery company as an apprentice engraver 44 hours per week for $24.00 a week - that was at straight time. After a year they refused me a raise and I went to work at National Steel Car for $105.00 per week plus piece work rates and also became a Union Rep and and organizer. Boy that's a whole other story. After a year or so I knew this was not going anywhere so I went back to High School 4 days a week to finish high school. Finally got most of my Grad 13 and was accepted at McMaster and graduated in what now would be considered Labour Law Studies. I got a management job at General Electric in Toronto as a Labour Relations Rep and ended up 25 years later as a HR Director/negotiator in the Health Care system in Alberta which also included a few years working for Syncrude in Fort Mac.
So don't preach to me Bud - if you get off your butt and start looking out for yourself - you will make it at some level that you can look back on an say to yourself: " I did all right"
Without taking any pious sanctimonious BS from anyone.
01-13-2013 04:06 PM
Fairness to Canadians would be better served by increasing taxes on spending (GST) and lowering taxes on earning (income tax, payroll taxes).
The recent increase in Employment Insurance is a typical example that hurts most working Canadians. In the meantime, the rich and very rich save thousands of dollars a year buying fancy cars, etc... paying the lower GST.
The liberals suggested that, but have you ever seen a liberal drop taxes?
They make lots of promises that they never keep.
01-13-2013 04:26 PM
" if you get off your butt and start looking out for yourself - you will make it at some level that you can look back on an say to yourself: " I did all right"
Bingo!!! Poor people can be every bit as greedy and covetous as rich people, but it is fashionable in some circles to condemn the rich and exalt the poor. Forcible redistribution of wealth.
Anyway, I like Luke 12:48 - "to whom much is given, much will be required"
01-13-2013 04:40 PM
Fairness to Canadians would be better served by increasing taxes on spending (GST) and lowering taxes on earning (income tax, payroll taxes).
since everybody must buy gas ,hydro,phone , clothing those with less money still have to purchase the "basics" so by putting the cost of those up by 2% does nothing for those with little or fixed income other than to increase an expense that they can barly afford to start with.
Reduce income taxes on those on welfare and low income does NOTHING as the majority of those people pay very little to NO income taxes at all. So you are suggesting that those on welfare (who pay no taxes at all) will be better off increasing their taxes by 2% on just about everything they buy?
Just increase the taxes on the highest earners and take away some of thier tax havens and tax credits!
01-13-2013 05:03 PM
"So you are suggesting that those on welfare (who pay no taxes at all) will be better off increasing their taxes by 2% on just about everything they buy?"
No.
Think about it.
Someone earning $25,000 a year or less pays little GST or HST since the bulk of that money goes to pay the rent (no tax) and basic food (also no tax). The relatively low amount of GST/HST paid is largely covered by the GST/HST credit available to all low income earners. It was instituted by the Conservative government of Brian Mulroney and that credit makes sense. It helps those who need it the most.
Someone earning $100,000 a year will spend a lot more money and, as such, was subject to much more GST/HST until Harper lowered that tax.
Someone making $1,000,000 or more spends a huge amount of money on high ticket items. For example, a $100,000 car would cost $2,000 more if the GST had remained at 7%.
It is not a question of taxing the rich or the high income earners. It is a principle to taxing expenses instead of income.
Tax the folks a little bit more on the money they spend and a little bit less on the money they earn through their labour.
Welfare recipients have nothing to do with the concept.except that the government have less money available to spend on those who really need it when they reduce consumption taxes on those who spend the most.
01-13-2013 05:22 PM
Fairness to Canadians would be better served by increasing taxes on spending (GST) and lowering taxes on earning (income tax, payroll taxes).
How would that work? What we earn, we also spend. It matters little if racket moves from one side to another.
When companies started leaving, Chinese were earning $20/month. Those days are long over and there has been a shift in wealth from west to east and we are feeling it. Whatever was working in 70-ties to 90-ties in our favor was based on the exploitation of Asia and that situation was artificial and could not last. Also governments got comfortable and learned to spend recklessly with very long momentum.
01-13-2013 05:25 PM
The second quote above is not actual quote of Pierre, but my reply to Fairness to Canadians would be better served by increasing taxes on spending (GST) and lowering taxes on earning (income tax, payroll taxes). plus some other idea related to the topic. Note to self, use the preview before posting
01-13-2013 05:28 PM
????
01-13-2013 06:00 PM
As I said above, the second quote got garbled and posted my opinion as your quote.
So let's try this again.
Fairness to Canadians would be better served by increasing taxes on spending (GST) and lowering taxes on earning (income tax, payroll taxes).
How would that work? What we earn, we also spend. It matters little if racket moves from one side to another.
Sales tax is indiscriminate, while income tax is progressive. What you are suggesting would help high income receivers and hurt low income