eBay

sylviebee · ‎11-10-2015

Several months ago I bought an item from a seller and had problems with it.

She actually called me on the phone swearing. No polite hellos, just the craziest eBayer I have ever encountered.

About a week ago I sold an item and today the buyer contacted me and told that it had arrived broken.

I refunded immediately and wouldn't have thought more about it but I just noticed that it's the same crazy seller.

She must have been lurking looking for something to buy and make trouble.

I should have blocked her but I didn't. All of this took place on a different id.

She hasn't left FB yet, but I'm pretty sure it's coming.

I wonder if I'll be able to get removed when she trashes my FB?

(Maybe a reason not to buy and sell with the same id. However, when someone is this crazy even if I hadn't blocked her she could have used a different id to buy and maybe it's better to see who she is.)

sylviebee · ‎11-12-2015

i did report the seller.

Whenever I see those "report a buyer/seller" buttons I'm reminded of a situation which took place in schools some years ago.

A program was introduced designed to ferret out parents who were abusing their children.

Students were encouraged to report incidents of abuse. At first the authorities worried that the children would be afraid to come forward.

Not so.

The little monsters lined up to report their parents for endless "abuses." Problem was they were reporting parents for incidents of normal discipline such as time out, restricted TV time, being grounded etc.

They put a stop to the program soon after it was implemented because it wasn't doing what it was designed to do.

The report a seller/buttons always remind of that.

eBay will be inundated with millions upon millions of incidents from buyers and sellers eagerly reporting each other for minor, imagined, meaningless, and fabricated incidents. Among those will be a few bona fide infractions.

The likelihood that eBay is monitoring those reports to any degree is far fetched.

Those buttons are there so that you can push them and get back to buying and selling as quickly as possible.

So, yes, I did push the button but I doubt that anyone took notice.

momcqueen · ‎11-12-2015

I have to agree with you a hundred per cent there. The moment I hit 'send' on a report, I imagine it racing down fibre optic cables across land and sea at the speed of light until it begins to flicker and fade as the cable becomes frayed and then ends in a server half-buried in a landfill somewhere in the Far East. Flies buzzing optional. Maybe one intermittent blinking light.

I strongly suspect that Report a (Whatever) is a placebo, designed to let the user vent and nothing more. If I have ever had to call Customer Service to follow-up on someone or something 'reported' they confirm no record whatsoever of that online report, only the calls placed.

dmil8030 · ‎11-12-2015

Good morning, 'sylviebee',

I wasn't thinking of using the Report button, per se, because yes, I believe they are almost entirely ineffectual.

For real problems - when you are serious - a phone call is necessary to be taken even a little bit seriously.

My point was that in spite of what an employee may have told you, buying from someone expressly to damage

the person's feedback is a violation - according to ebay policy. Telephone attendants do not make the policy.

And it would seem they are not even capable of interpeting it correctly.

As for 'Report' buttons, well, I suppose they are there because far to many people are 'report happy', and giving them

something to click on soothes that need for silent vengeance. Adding a Report button keeps the vindictively-inclined

from clogging the phone lines every time they disagree with someone or encounter someone they don't like, or worse,

- a competitor.

What matters is that ebay expressly tells people that manipulating feedback is an offense, - something I thought you

could use in your defense next time you call. If you call.

Of course what you choose to do, if anything, is up to you. I merely tried to assist your position.

sylviebee · ‎11-12-2015

Good Morning dm:

I don't think you've followed this thread from the top.

I called eBay three times yesterday and in the process spoke with over half a dozen reps as I was put on hold and passed down the line.

Two reps in the highest positions told me that it's clear that the buyer bought from me because I had filed a case on her a few months ago.

However, until and unless the buyer admits (in writing) that the FB was retaliatory that her hands were tied and she couldn't remove it.

That eventually led to a discussion about the fact a vengeful seller can indeed buy from a buyer turned seller solely for the purpose of leaving NFB.

In fact, it does make sense and I believe the CSreps were not wrong.

There is no rule against buying from sellers you've had problems with in the past when they bought from you, and if you do you are free to leave any FB you wish.

The onus is then on the seller to prove what occurred and that's taxing even in the most obvious situations like mine.

Of course they also told me I could report the buyer, and I think we pretty much all agree that's a placebo designed to reduce CS calls.

sylviebee · ‎11-12-2015

Just wanted to add:

On that id I've had one sale only over the past six months and that single transaction was to the seller I filed a case against several months ago and left me NFB in turn.

Could it be any clearer that the purchase was solely for the purpose of retaliation than that?

momcqueen · ‎11-12-2015

Also, it was raised as an issue at Board Hour.....

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Weekly-Chat-Session/November-11th-2015-Weekly-Session/m-p/318607#M3163

I still question what the CSR told you, slyviebee. Who would really believe that a seller who'd been left negative feedback would buy from the buyer who left it with anything but the worst of intentions, and then leave negative feedback for that transaction by coincidence? After all the yelling and swearing that took place as a result of the previous transaction?

It defies credulity. It's like wearing a balaclava into a convenience store in the midst of a summer heatwave and then claiming you aren't really there to rob the place, your head is cold. While you stand at the counter waving a knife around. 'No, really, I'm not robbing you. My head is cold, my face too. But if you want to leave a donation on the counter for the keep-me-warm-fund, that's okay, I guess.' As if!

dmil8030 · ‎11-12-2015

<< I called eBay three times yesterday and in the process spoke with over half a dozen reps>>

Of course I followed it from the top. I thought it all made for a good story, but granted, when I initially

posted I did not discern that you had called three times and spoken with over six different people. That is a lot.

Wearying, too, no doubt.

Well, I just thought maybe I could offer suggestions, to demonstrate what ebay's official position is, to come up with

some way to ameliorate a trying situation. I can't stand it when people are treated unfairly, - when petty little

mean-spirited people are gratified by hurting others. That just seems so wrong. Ebay says,

"Help us make Feedback and detailed seller ratings as fair and honest as possible."

Fair and honest. It doesn't say "nice", - but it does say "fair", -- which as anyone who has been on ebay for any

length of time will agree is whopping great knee-slapper of a laugh. But it is there in print.

And of course, you will have seen this posting:

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Weekly-Chat-Session/November-11th-2015-Weekly-Session/m-p/318543#M3130

I simply tried to help. Sorry if I wasted your time, - haha, hope you didn't read it all if it was of no use.

Just ignore whatever I said, then. I wasn't pounding on the desk, merely tossing out thoughts, possiblities.

Still, I wish you peace of mind about it, whatever the outcome.

sylviebee · ‎11-12-2015

dm, You didn't waste my time and of course it helps to be supported.

I appreciate the time and effort very much.

Thank You

sylviebee · ‎11-12-2015

I did email Raphael.

mj, there are some twists that made my task of explaining what occurred to CS reps more taxing.

I left the seller NFB but then asked her to send a request to change the FB after I'd received my refund.

That is my buying id and it doesn't help for sellers to see you've left NFB when making offers on items.

I revised the negative to positive so that threw them off but it was clear what occurred. They just had to read the messages.

I also thought the seller would appreciate that and leave me alone which was also a reason I wasn't vigilant enough.

I was more than fair to her.

Also, this was a GSP purchase which was billed via paypal and that likely threw them a bit as well.

I filed a paypal case and not an eBay case.

However, even though it may take a little time to read through the details anyone who does so can see what occurred.

Again: this is my one sale on that id over the course of the past six months and it's to a seller I filed a case on and told me in writing and on the phone that she hates me. (really)

momcqueen · ‎11-12-2015

@sylviebee wrote:
I did email Raphael.

mj, there are some twists that made my task of explaining what occurred to CS reps more taxing.

I left the seller NFB but then asked her to send a request to change the FB after I'd received my refund.
That is my buying id and it doesn't help for sellers to see you've left NFB when making offers on items.
I revised the negative to positive so that threw them off but it was clear what occurred. They just had to read the messages.

I also thought the seller would appreciate that and leave me alone which was also a reason I wasn't vigilant enough.
I was more than fair to her.

Also, this was a GSP purchase which was billed via paypal and that likely threw them a bit as well.

I filed a paypal case and not an eBay case.

However, even though it may take a little time to read through the details anyone who does so can see what occurred.

Again: this is my one sale on that id over the course of the past six months and it's to a seller I filed a case on and told me in writing and on the phone that she hates me. (really)

Oooooooh, I see. Extenuating circumstances that required the people you with which you were speaking at CS to read and think and read and then think some more.

Wait, that sounds more sarcastic than it was meant to me.

What I mean is that the reps actually had to think to connect the dots and, to be honest, I don't think that they are able to do that. And I mean given the ability to do so. Whenever I have to call into Customer Service, it sounds to me as if there are sixteen people sharing one cubic foot of space and one, maybe two computers. The last time I had a feedback problem, none of the people with which I spoke actually READ what I was talking about, and they could not be bothered to do so. It's almost as if they could not? Is it possible they have inadequate equipment? Or that they cannot read as well as they can speak if it is their second or third language? I hate to even raise that possibility because it makes me sound like a bigot which I am absolutely not.

Suffice it to say thatI think something is not quite right there. I will have to trust ebay to get to the bottom of it.

sylviebee · ‎11-12-2015

For me these calls are especially taxing.

I have very poor hearing and don't understand accents.

When they also use a head set I could scream.

I have to keep asking them to repeat what they said and speak louder and that's stressful for everyone.

Trying to listen and understand what they're saying when they read through some fluff is torture.

I never fail to end the phone call with a headache.

momcqueen · ‎11-12-2015

I empathize. I have an inner-ear condition that is most torturous during phone calls. Also, it affects my balance which can be great fun when the room suddenly tilts, wa hoo! Like being drunk without the booze and good times.

Take it easy.

femmefan1946 · ‎11-13-2015

She did leave HORRiBLE NFB as expected.

I'm rubber you're glue, your words bounce off me and stick to you.

The person most hurt by nasty fb is the one who leaves it. Too bad buyer's names are no longer visible.

You could turn that account into your buying account, seller's won't worry about a neg, most will never even see it.

And if anyone asks you can, if you wish, refer them to the earlier neg you left--if yours was calm and factual.

sylviebee · ‎11-13-2015

Good Morning femme. It is my buyer's account.

I listed a few items there because I had a bit of overflow here.

The ONLY sale I had on that account during the past six months was to that seller I filed a case on 4 months ago. How could that leave any room for doubt in the CSreps mind that is was retaliatory FB?

Raphael is still looking into it though.

Odd thing is, I just had another sale there just after the NFB appeared.

momcqueen · ‎11-13-2015

@sylviebee wrote:

...Odd thing is, I just had another sale there just after the NFB appeared.

I hope it was not a sale to your person's brother-in-law, co-worker or long-lost great-aunt?

I have noticed that purchases from unrelated buyers often follow feedback left for me. I think it is a byproduct of another member attending my page, or that very recent Feedback as a Seller factors into either the Popularity or Relevance portion of the Best Match criteria.

momcqueen · ‎11-13-2015

@femmefan1946 wrote:
....Too bad buyer's names are no longer visible...

I agree. While shopping here, I often stumble across feedback left for others that comes from those sorts who appear to be the kind of people I would dearly like to avoid by adding them to my Blocked Bidders list. I used it freely in the past to mitigate potential trouble. It worked.

I also think it would be useful to see in the Buyer Requirements Activity Log who has tried to buy from me but is unable to add those items to their Cart. It shows now only identity-free members blocked as a result of Too Many Unpaids and Not in Countries I Ship to but I think those people can still add something to their cart but not checkout.

The point of seeing more information would be so that if a seller had their limit on items set too low, or if a Blocked Buddy had tried to buy something six times and then ten minutes later, it sold to a brand-new member with zero feedback.....

sylviebee · ‎11-13-2015

My new buyer actually lives in my city so it's not the same buyer who left the NFB.

BUT....... what truly worries me is that seller/buyer knows who I am. She has my real name and contact information. I feel very threatened by her.

She can find my other websites and cause me a lot of trouble.

I believe this woman a true psychopath in the clinical sense and I do not feel safe from her at all.

The things she said to me are beyond bizarre.

The FB she leaves for others it beyond bizarre as well.

For someone to lie in wait for four months watching to see if you list something and pounce is extreme behaviour.

Has anyone else ever had a seller phone you up and scream "I hate you" followed by a string of profanities?

sylviebee · ‎11-14-2015

I'm waking this thread up because I'm left with questions about the way this unfolded.

Maybe someone else is interested too and if not sorry to harp on about it.

I sent Raphael the relevant information.

He told me that what the CSreps told me is not correct.

There was never any doubt that one can't buy an item just to leave Negative retaliatory FB. That part was always clear.

However, what isn't clear is how that plays out in the real world.

1) Does that mean you can't buy from a seller with whom you had issues with in the past?

or

2) Does that mean that if you buy from a seller with whom you've had issues that you can only leave PFB or no FB?

Anyone can make something up to look like just cause for NFB. No challenge there.

I'm not sure what the actual guidelines are, but I do know that my case is clearly one of FB abuse and yet the NFB has not been removed so that leaves me with a lot of questions.

pierrelebel · ‎11-14-2015

" so that leaves me with a lot of questions."

What questions? It is all very clear to me.

1) Members are not allowed to purchase items for the sole purpose of leaving retaliatory negative feedback.

2) As Raphael clearly stated the two customer service representatives who advised you that you should or could were wrong. End of story.

3) As far as feedback removal is concerned, in this specific case, since "retaliation" can be "assumed" but cannot be evidenced, the feedback will not be removed.

Time to move on.