Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/08/29/arctic-sea-ice-record-low-nsidc.html



It started looking like this was coming sometime in July.



The story is attracting massive commenting on CBC, running about 10-1 in favour of recognizing the role we humans play in global warming.



Very interesting info at the National Snow and Ice Data Center.



Now they're saying in some circles that the hope of holding global temperature increase to two degrees (over what timeframe I forget) is basically slim to none.



Just the fact that the six last years are the six lowest Arctic ice years by a long shot is mind-blowing. For such an occurrence to be a random accident it would be like the same person winning the lottery six years in a row. For it to be something like "the end of the ice age" (or a "cycle") as some numbskulls propose, it would be like a mile-long freight train stopping on a dime and zipping into reverse as fast as the engineer could say "roger".



The alternative explanations are becoming downright farcical. Scarcely a snowflake of plausibility in the deniers' playbook now.



Article in the latest National Geographic going in depth into extreme weather phenomena.



Quite possibly before all is said and done, oil company execs and lobbiests may be held to account over all their lies, disinformation and misinformation, just as the tobacco industry has had to face a number of billion-dollar suits and payouts because of their lies.



I'm just afraid it will be too late.


Message 1 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

"...the level of Arctic sea ice hasn't been this low for at least a million years."


 


It just sounds so glib:"a million years"  Not 870,000 years,  not 235,000 years.  Nope. A "million" years.   Perhaps in a few years that number will inflate to frighten gullible and impressionable minds.

Message 41 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

A "million" years.   Perhaps in a few years that number will inflate to frighten gullible and impressionable minds.



Not likely to be a problem. Most of these lost souls have already bought into oil industry propaganda ~ so they are immune from being frightened over some mere triviality like polluting the air or abusing the planet.

Message 42 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

Yeah, the Raging Greenies should consider legislating against significant polluters such as forest fires and volcanoes. Ban them.

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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

valve37
Community Member


Yeah, the Raging Greenies should consider legislating against significant polluters such as forest fires and volcanoes. Ban them.



 


Somehow Megan and Dennis have to convince China and India to stop their industrialization. Mission impossible?


 


 


"Global carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions continue to rise despite best efforts to date to curtail them. CO2 emissions reached a record-high 31.6 gigatonnes (Gt) in 2011, according to preliminary estimates from the International Energy Agency, a 1 Gt, 3.2% year-over-year increase.


Increasing fossil fuel use, driven primarily by growing demand in rapidly industrializing countries such as China and India is fueling the rise. Coal accounted for 45% of total energy-related CO2 emissions worldwide last year, followed by oil at 35% and natural gas accounting for 20%,"


 


Keep in mind that the oceans absorb about 20% of the worlds CO² emmissions cancelling out the natural gas contribution.


 


This article supports emissions from volcanoes and forest fires alluded to in the quoted statement. 


 


http://www.helium.com/items/1903061-the-major-sources-for-carbon-dioxide-emissions 


 


"The people who firmly believe that man is the biggest culprit may not take it happily, but the biggest source of CO2 emissions is volcanic eruptions."


 


We can't stop natural causes, been happening since the beginning of time. Known as the evolution of planet earth and no way to stop it and would we even want to?

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

my_igloo_is_melting
Community Member

"The people who firmly believe that man is the biggest culprit may not take it happily, but the biggest source of CO2 emissions is volcanic eruptions."


 


While that statement may be factually true, it is still wrong and misleading.


 


Natural sources always existed. Humans added the extra amount to cause the increase in the rate of the effect. Mankind's contributions to global warming can be controlled, volcanoes cannot.


 


Natural sources are accidental Mankind's is deliberate. Huge difference in intent.

You've forgotten more than you will ever know. My MIL
Message 45 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

The volcano card has been played many times on this board and elsewhere - and soundly debunked every time:



Volcanoes emit around 0.3 billion tonnes of CO2 per year. This is about 1% of human CO2 emissions which is around 29 billion tonnes per year.



http://www.skepticalscience.com/volcanoes-and-global-warming-intermediate.htm

Message 46 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

This is the part I was getting at back in an earlier post:



“The level that we are at now is unprecedented over the last 1,450 years,” says Barber. “And as far as we know we have to go back over a million years to find a period when the Arctic was seasonally ice-free in the summer.”



The Arctic melt is also happening faster than at any time in the planet’s past, says Barber, noting that the geological and historical records indicate it took tens of thousands of years to move to a seasonally-ice-free Arctic in the past.



“Now we are getting there in tens of years, not tens of thousands of years,” he says. “And we don’t know how the Earth is going to respond because we have never seen such a rapid change before.”



We are seeing the change of an age in the blink of an eye.



http://o.canada.com/2012/09/21/ice-rotten-to-the-north-pole/



In the same article, David Barber, a scientist at the U of Manitoba, says that the multiyear ice that remains is "rotten" all the way to the North Pole, so the satellite data we see actually exaggerates the amount of solid ice left up there.

Message 47 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

This is the part I was getting at back in an earlier post; ie. the cumulative effect of volcanoes and forest fires.   Put this in yer pipe and smoke it, Art:


 


"we estimate that between 0.81 and 2.57 Gt of carbon were released to the atmosphere in 1997 as a result of burning peat and vegetation in Indonesia. This is equivalent to 13–40% of the mean annual global carbon emissions from fossil fuels, and contributed greatly to the largest annual increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration detected since records began in 1957"


http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v420/n6911/abs/nature01131.html


 

Message 48 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

btw. A giga tonne, (or a couple of them) sounds like a lot of weight.  More than a few billion tonnes I betcha.  And just from 1 country too; Indonesia.  Them folks know how to do some serious emitting over there.  No Kyoto for you.

Message 49 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

pd if you go to the link on post 45 there's no big spike in Co2 for 1998, just the normal, steady increase. At the time, they may have thought it was a spike.



Your info about peat and forest fires is interesting though. I was on a train trip once that went seemingly for hours through a peat fire. That stuff just burns.



You have to admit that 'measuring' the carbon emitted in Borneo by hook or by crook and then 'extrapolating' it to all of Indonesia is perhaps a little hit and miss ~ but no doubt there were a few pipes worth of smoke there.



BTW, the amount of Co2 produced by humans has increased a lot also since '98. What might have been 13% then could be 2% now.

Message 50 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

a gig is a billion



ya know, meg, gig and all that

Message 51 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

Art - interesting volcano link you posted; enjoyed reading that.


From a strictly CO2 emissions standpoint, the oilsands represent a rather insignificant global contribution: "According to Greenpeace, oil sands industry has been identified as the largest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions growth in Canada, as it accounts for 40 million tons of CO2 emissions per y...[75][ ] According to the dead linkCanadian Association of Petroleum Producers and Environment Canada the oil sands make up about 5% of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions, or 0.1% of g... "


 


The Borneo Peat Burners appear to emit a lot more!  Hope they receive some of those prestigious Fossil of the Day Awards handed out at Climate Conferences.  Maybe Desmond Tutu can dedicate a special diatribe about Indonesia if I bring this to his attention.

Message 52 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever


a gig is a billion


 


ya know, meg, gig and all that



 


Yeah - thanks.  I got mixed up with terrabytes or something.

Message 53 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

valve37
Community Member
And some here are paranoid of CO² emissions

Earth’s magnetic field overdue for a chaos-causing (possibly life-altering) flip


LONDON — The discovery by NASA rover Curiosity of evidence that water once flowed on Mars – the most Earth-like planet in the solar system – should intensify interest in what the future could hold for mankind.

The only thing stopping Earth having a lifeless environment like Mars is the magnetic field that shields us from deadly solar radiation and helps some animals migrate, and it may be a lot more fragile and febrile than one might think.

Scientists say earth’s magnetic field is weakening and could all but disappear in as little as 500 years as a precursor to flipping upside down.

It has happened before – the geological record suggests the magnetic field has reversed every 250,000 years, meaning that, with the last event 800,000 years ago, another would seem to be overdue.

“Magnetic north has migrated more than 1,500 kilometres over the past century,” said Conall Mac Niocaill, an earth scientist at Oxford University. “In the past 150 years, the strength of the magnetic field has lessened by 10 percent, which could indicate a reversal is on the cards.”

Related

While the effects are hard to predict, the consequences may be enormous. The loss of the magnetic field on Mars billions of years ago put paid to life on the planet if there ever was any, scientists say.

Mac Niocaill said Mars probably lost its magnetic field 3.5-4.0 billion years ago, based on observations that rocks in the planet’s southern hemisphere have magnetisation.

The northern half of Mars looks younger because it has fewer impact craters, and has no magnetic structure to speak of, so the field must have shut down before the rocks there were formed, which would have been about 3.8 billion years ago.

“With the field dying away, the solar wind was then able to strip the atmosphere away, and you would also have an increase in the cosmic radiation making it to the surface,” he said.

“Both of these things would be bad news for any life that might have formed on the surface – either wiping it out, or forcing it to migrate into the interior of the planet.” RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW

Earth’s magnetic field has always restored itself but, as it continues to shift and weaken, it will present challenges – satellites could be more exposed to solar wind and the oil industry uses readings from the field to guide drills.

In nature, animals which use the field could be mightily confused – birds, bees, and some fish all use the field for navigation. So do sea turtles whose long lives, which can easily exceed a hundred years, means a single generation could feel the effects.

Birds may be able to cope because studies have shown they have back-up systems that rely on stars and landmarks, including roads and power lines, to find their way around.

The European Space Agency is taking the issue seriously. In November, it plans to launch three satellites to improve our fairly blurry understanding of the magnetosphere.

The project – Swarm – will send two satellites into a 450 kilometre high polar orbit to measure changes in the magnetic field, while a third satellite 530 kilometres high will look at the influence of the sun.

DESCENT INTO CHAOS

Scientists, who have known for some time the magnetic field has a tendency to flip, have made advances in recent years in understanding why and how it happens.

The field is generated by convection currents that churn in the molten iron of the planet’s outer core. Other factors, such as ocean currents and magnetic rocks in the earth’s crust also contribute.

The Swarm mission will pull all these elements together to improve computer models used to predict how the magnetic field will move and how fast it could weaken.

Ciaran Beggan, a geomagnetic specialist at the British Geological Survey in Edinburgh, said studies have also refined our understanding of how the field reverses.

They have focused on lava flows. When these cool and form crystals the atoms in iron-rich molten rock align under the influence of the magnetic field, providing a geological memory of the earth’s field.

But that memory looks different in various locations around the world, suggesting the reversal could be a chaotic and fairly random process.

“Rather than having strong north and south poles, you get lots of poles around the planet. So, a compass would not do you much good,” said Beggan.

While the whole process takes 3,000-5,000 years, latest research suggests the descent into a chaotic state could take as little as 500 years, although there are significant holes in scientific understanding.

“Although electricity grids and GPS systems would be more vulnerable, we are not really sure how all the complex things that are linked together would react,” Beggan said.

© Thomson Reuters 2012





"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
Message 54 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

valve37
Community Member

Anyone in Canada that still beleives in climate warming needs to get their azz outside this morning.;-)

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

 


I think I will keep may azz strictly inside today where it's well-warmed, and well-housed, don't you know!! 😉


 


And walking by the mirror, I can vouch for it being well-fed, to boot!

Beware of kittens with red bows, bullies in bandannas, and whining broken records.

€ Lucifleur

~Lucifleur
Message 56 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

valve37
Community Member

Coldest spot on planet earth this morning so sayeth CBC National. Little Chicago NWT -43C. That otta freeze some sea ice!

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
Message 57 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

 


Just heard  report on the radio that Ottawa is the coldest capital in the world today, and the coldest in 8 years or something.

Beware of kittens with red bows, bullies in bandannas, and whining broken records.

€ Lucifleur

~Lucifleur
Message 58 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

-41 with the wind chill this morning.


 


We came in again this morning with clients cancelling all appointments, second time in a week.


 


This rarely happens but both clients booked for today are in their seventies. Probably best that they did cancel.


 


Union agreement states we have to do four hours before we can be sent home. Oh well, I guess we will rearrange the fridge magnets in the break room again.

Message 59 of 67
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Arctic sea ice hits lowest extent ever

Anyone in Canada that still beleives in climate warming needs to get their azz outside this morning


 


At first blush maybe - Then again, three days of normal January temps in five years perhaps does more to make us realize what winter is supposed to be.


 


I remember one winter it was so cold all year that it went up to - 6 in early April and we thought it was a heat wave. Now in that same city -6 would be considered cool or cold even in Jan and Feb.


---


 


As for the magnetic poles, this is getting a lot of attention now. Hopefully before long we will have some more reliable information.

Message 60 of 67
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