Are we going to have another federal election??:|

[sunset_sports_cards]

So what is the feeling of the posters we have left here. Are we taking the track to another Federal election? Will the tories crumble an already unstable Liberal government? Post your feelings here!

[chuck111fishing]

sad to say martin was best for the job but if wasnt for the recent prime minister chretien he would be in power for 3 terms. Mr chretien as far as i'm concern should lose his pension over this scandal that he created without paul martin. Sad say he would been better than chretien would ever be on business format

[shoplineca]

My take:
If the Bloc convinces the New Conservatives to join them in bringing down the house and forcing an election, there will be a Quebec referendum within 4 -6 months of the federal election and Harper will go down in history as the reigning Prime Minister during the cessassion of Quebec.

Of course if that occurs, there will be another immediate election call and I doubt the Conservatives would be able to stay in power with such a legacy.

Harper should not be too confident about forming an alliance with the Bloc at this time or it will be the end of his political career and likely that of the Conservative party.

This is a real Catch 22 for all parties except the Bloc.

Malcolm

[gezeilstra]

It's Canadians who are going to suffer through all this, the Liberals are corrupt (when is someone going to be up on criminal charges?!), the Tory's are racist Alliance / Reform Party members in disguise, the NDP are well-intentioned but will bankrupt the country and the Block will destroy it.

Is this really the best that Canada can offer? Seems like if there was an intelligent, real party out there this would be their chance to jump in, the problem is not even how corrupt the Liberal's are, but the lack of any decent alternatives. I think the Liberal's would even get in on another minority, which might be the best thing with the crappy options we have.

How about electing a bunch of independants?

[shoplineca]

Better to keep the minority government as it is right now and keep this country running with compromises between the parties than to go back to the polls.

I have a feeling that if there was another election this June, we would set the record for the poorest electoral turnout in the history of this country.

My worst fear is that it could open the doors to a referendum in Quebec at a time people there will vote for separation over the ad scandal and not thinking about the long term reprucussions of their vote.

Malcolm

[sunset_sports_cards]

Yes I agree Malcolm, the referendum would be a bad thing. I believe the minority government should stay, after all look what happened when Jean had a majority, all the election promises went right out the window! There is more responsibility with a minority government, they cannot pull the stuff (AKA Sponsorship scandal) without being looked at under the proverbial microscope.

[audioshack]

Without picking sides, I am of the opinion that the entire system has become corrupt rather than just any particular party.

I'm getting older but I still clearly remember in recent years the AirBus scandal that led right to the top of the PC party. I also remember the Grant Devine gov't - I think almost half of his cabinet is now out on parole. And wasn't there a Conservative appointed senator that was lounging on a Bahamian beach for months on end while he was supposed to be in the Senate. Them there was the rocky five years of the Bill Vander Zalm government where even the premier had to step down in a conflict of interest scandal. BC has had a tough time of it because they were then immediately faced with another scandal that led to the fall of another Premier, Mike Harcourt.

As long as we allow lobbyists to wave fantastic amounts of cash under the noses of underpaid elected cabinet ministers we will continue to suffer these scandals. Likewise, unless we can get control over political donations and the payback and favoritism that they lead to, we will forever be investigating and appointing Royal Commissions.

My cynicism has been developed from years of exposure to kingdom-building bureaucrats that care little for the Canadian public that they are hired to serve. The politicians that are supposed to control them generally seem to be only concerned with getting their photo ops. My opinion is that most of them are largely marking time in the legislatures until they qualify for their lifetime pension at the publics expense

We are not likely to see the election of a quality nation-building personage anywhere in the near future. The likes of John A., Wilfred Laurier, MacKenzie-King (ok, he had the help of his dog and dead mother), Tommy Douglas and PET appear to have disappeared from our country and we are left with scammers, law-breakers and charlatans.

It is indeed sad....

[sunset_sports_cards]

So....the Paul Martin debacle last night on T.V. was less than desirable. More of the same. Stephen Harper said it best. Why are we continuing to prop up the Liberal Government everytime they falter?
I like Paul Martin as a person, it is too bad we couldn't have an election system like the U.S. where you can vote for the guy and not necessarily the party.

[sunset_sports_cards]

I should be politically correct and say "vote for the Person" .;-)

[shoplineca]

If the Conservatives had a brain they would have had a different leader who could take them to a majority government.

Harper is not liked by the majority of Canadians and so long as he is leader, the Conservatives arent going anywhere. They should put in Peter Mackay and see what happens.

Calling an election right now may backfire on Harper. It is very possible the Liberals will win another minority goverment and that will mean the immediate end to Harper's career.

At worse, the Conservatives will win a minority and will NOT have any support from the Bloc nor the NDP. Quebec will hold a referendum in 2005 and win with a respounding 62% "Yes" vote and another Federal election will be called and the conservatives will be out on their asses for being the party in power when the country split and that is the only thing that will be in the history books about Prime Minister Harper:
"Elected June 27, 2005. Quebec voted 62% to seperate. Harper as Prime Minister negotiates seperation with the King of Quebec and another Federal election is called for the New Canada November 2005. Harper looses election".

Malcolm

[marcopoloca]

When Paul Martin was Finance Minister, either:
a) he knew something but said nothing (making him an accomplice), or
b) he didn't know what's going on around him which would made him gross incompetence; how can he shamelessly talked about tax reform and fiscal responsibility when millions of tax$ was wasting away right under his nose?

If there's going to be a referendum, it'll happen sooner or later like tax and death; why keep delaying something you can't avoid.

Mulroney was corrupted but he didn't get caught. Liberal is corrupted and get caught (finally). When you have too much power and money, honesty and integrity always gone down the drain.

[shoplineca]

I dont trust any politicians. I can tell you that I was at a social function last year and speaking with a former Cabinet Minister, very, very high up in Chretien's govt. Bottom line was everyone, including the Conservatives and Bloc knew about the sponsorship program.

Now whether that means they knew about scandals and money leaving the program ond going into the pockets of individuals or perhaps even party meners is another matter.

I think that it may soon be revealed that some of the Bloc were on the take as well as some of the Quebec Provincial Parti Quebecois (PQ).

That part is just a personal guess, but it wouldnt surprise me and would be a move I could see happening. It makes perfect sense to pay off some of the enemy to not be as proactive in their plight and fight for separation.

Malcolm

[rd1000]

We will have an election at the end of June. And so we should. The Liberals will never in a million years find and punish the Liberals responsible for the theft, influence peddling and bribery. They just won't do it. THey will continue to do everything they can to frustrate the investigation, despite Martins chest- beating vow of "I will get to the bottom of it". He won't. I don't recall him offering one bit of testimony to Gomery that would help uncover the truth. Assuming he didn't know about the criminal activities, surely he must be able to identify someone who at least knows something. I mean, if he really wants to help.

At the very least, he should go to GG and have the Conservatives form a government until Gomery is over. Then at least we could know that information would be forthcoming, if there is any left that hasn't hit the shredder yet.

Rob

PS - The sponsorship program was never a secret. It was the stuffed envelopes of money that was the secret.

[marcopoloca]

The Tv appearance was a last desperate attempt for the Liberal to plea for their jobs and stay in POWER. If the CEO of Enron, Laidlaw, Worldcom had the same privilege of the PM for the nation's attention and promised to clean up the corporation. Would be say...sure, no problem?

[llee2]

I just find it incredulous and unbeliveable that Martin, as Finance Minister, knew nothing of the millions being laundered. And in the odd chance that he was completely out of the loop, what does that say about a Finance Minister who can't account for 100 million dollars? Guilty as the rest or grossly incompetent...which would be worse?

Lincoln

[shoplineca]

I am not making an excuses however you have to look at 100 million in relation to the total budget. That would be like asking you what happened to $50 your wife spent a few years ago over a 3 or 4 year period.

$1 billion with HRDC I understand that to be something that the Finance Minister should have greater knowledge and understanding about but $100 million thats another matter.

Plus the $100 million was fully accounted for through fake invoices whereas the $1 billion (HRDC) is just totally missing with some evidence of monies going to defunct corporations ad individuals.

Sorry, in my books this is nothing more than the Lewinski/Clinton fiasco to bring down a government. We are content to go after the pennies but leave the losses of billions to be written off because we doent understand 'billions'.

Each government has pi$$ed away billions but nothing will be done to end that type of irresponsibility, it will just change hands from one friend of one government getting kickbacks to a different friend in the other government.

Face it, it is only natural. If you were running a government and were supported by a corporation that made widgits and the time came to give a contract for making widgits, would you give it to the company that supported the 'other' side in an election or the one that worked for you and that you trust?

If a law firm gave money and people to your campaign, would you turn legal files to the firms that supported the other party or the firm that supported your party?

Is that corruption or common sense?

Speaking of power and corruption, I remember learning when the environment friendly NDP were in power in Ontario and the leader had his limo driver drive his limo from Toronto to Ottawa to meet him here when he flew in as he preferred his own limo.

Cynical? your darn right. I think when the people start taking back power from the governments is when we will gain control of our lives and our finances.

Governments have continually taken more control of our ives. Take municipal politics as an example. Municipal politicians are simply to be the Board of Directors over city staff. It was intended to be a part-time position. But in sucessive years they have adopted more responibilities and with that, increases in pay and tax-free benefits.

Cities were charged with the responsibility for roads and sewers and parks, but as time progressed they got into into the arts, and sports and recreation, and into smoking bylaws, and pets and private lawn care etc etc.

Each government sucessively more control of our lives and with it, more money from us for doing it. When that flood gate stops, corruption will come to an end and not before.

Malcolm

[rd1000]

The whole country is cynical, and for good reasons. I think the country sent a pretty clear message to Mulroney, and I wish we would do the same to Martin/Cretien. At the very least, it would force them to rebuild what was once a respectable party from scratch.

The problem with re-electing them is that we are saying their way of doing business is acceptable, and it is not. They won 3 election using millions of embezzled dollars. Maybe governments will always "lose" or "waste" a ton of money, but now they are interfering with the electoral process. Malcolm, you have to admit, money plays a big part in winning elections.

I agree that the sponsorship sounds like peanuts in the big picture, but it is the practice of funnelling money directly to the Liberal party. If the gun registry funding was auditable, I think we would have found the same things happening there. What are the odds that the Liberals contained this practice to just sponsorship money? 1.2 billion for a database? I don't believe it for a minute. They were just smart enought to make the funds completely untraceable this time.

Send a message Canada. Wipe them out and let them spend a few years regrouping. It wouldn't hurt to have a little conservatism to balance the socialism anyway. I don't care what side you are on, you have to admit that neither political spectrum is always correct on every issue.

Let the Liberals have their next caucus meeting at a booth in a diner. On their own tab!

Rob

[sunset_sports_cards]

Which is the very reason I do not like Majority Governments...they can do what they want with little or no accountability.

[audioshack]

I'm not entirely certain that it is fair to hold Martin responsible to the extent that many seem to want to. Even as Finance Minister, his realtionship with the little guy from Shawinagan was strained. His portfolio as Finance Minister allowed him to allocate funds to various departments but the spending is controlled in those departments by the ministers and senior bureaucrats. The sponsorship program spending was not directly controlled by the Finance Minister or his staff.

It is also well documented that the PMO routinely interferred in the day to day running of various departments. It should not be a surprise to anyone that the PMO would have had a hand in strongly "urging" the allocation of funds to a particular department to which the Finance Minister would respond in his budget or be replaced (as he was in the end when he was removed to the back-benches for disagreements with the PMO).

While the Liberal Party has obviously been shown to be corrupt, I'm not certain that Martin is the one to take the fall. Justice Gomery should be allowed to complete his investigation and then let the fingers be pointed. Right now, but without all of the facts in, they certainly appear to be leading right up to the former PM's doorstep.

What I will hold Martin immediately accountable for is his pledge that the perpetrators will be prosecuted. If that means hauling people and their monogrammed golf balls in for justice I would expect the RCMP to be directed to do so.

Martin is in a very difficult spot but, thusfar, I think he has tried to be above board. He well knows that his political future depends on it. He can be reflected in history as a PM that found corruption and dealt with it harshly or he can have his picture on the facing page to Kim Campbell in the section devoted to PM's that took the wrap.

[marcopoloca]

The bucks stops here! If no one high up is ever held accountable for, the system will never get changed; it seems everyone is blaming everyone else while 100 million is gone missing. 100 million is still 100 million and it's scary to think any one individual consider it as drop in the bucket. I bet you that when 10 million gone missing were consider just that, before it gets to 100, 1000....
do you tell your kid it's ok to steal $1 even though you might have 100,000 in your bank?