Buyer demanded refund + cancel transaction case opinion needed

[mommandadd]

I have a situation where the buyer wants to return the item because it isn't what he thought. He thought the item was worth a 200-300 hundred dollars and so was happy to pay $20 for it (it's probably woth $50 or so).

I said fine as I take things back no questions asked. So I opened a cancel transaction case.

Next I received an e-mail from the buyer stating that he mailed the item December 27, 2012 and expects me to refund his payment plus all postage costs on or by January 1st 2013. If not he will void the cancel transaction case and stick me with the fees. While still expecting the refund.

So what are my options as that give me two mailing days for the item to arrive December 28th and December 31st.

[pierrelebel]

"So I opened a cancel transaction case."

When dealing with customers who want to return an item, I generally wait to start the cancellation process until the item is received.

A typical reply to a request to return an item for refund will be:

"Thank you for your message.  I am sorry the item you received does not meet your expectations. The process to give you a full refund will be start immediately upon receipt of the item.

At that time I will ask eBay to cancel the original transaction.  Once you have confirmed the cancellation to eBay, the full refund will be processed through PayPal.

Please let me know once the item has been sent back.

Thank you."

Unfortunately, you seem to be dealing with a PITA buyer.  It happens. 😞   Have you checked the feedback the buyer leaves for other sellers? Can you discern a pattern of bad faith?

"...he mailed the item December 27, 2012"

Maybe he did, maybe he did not.  Maybe you will receive it, maybe you will not.

In any case, I would not issue any kind of refund until the item is in fact received.

[i*m-stilll-here]

Clearly, you should have waited to send the "Cancel Transaction" form, but since you did not........ :

I'm assuming that the item was shipped without tracking or you would have mentioned that.

Is that correct?

If it was shipped with tracking then I don't think you'd have anything to lose by refunding now.

Just be sure it's "Real" tracking.

It's not 100% but I think I would.

If it was shipped without tracking then wait.

You do hold some pretty powerful cards.

If you use them wisely you should be able to escape with no collateral damage but be very careful not to threaten in any way.

Just be very strategic in all of your moves from now on.

IMO FVFs and the rest of it are not nearly as important as FB right now, so be careful from now on.

[stevephinn2012]

IF he cancels the request and sticks you with the fees then just deduct those fees from whatever refund you are going to give him

at this point i would assume you are getting negative feedback  anyway.

[mommandadd]

I have been very polite the whole time - he started off saying he's an expert with a Phd and that it was piece of junk, he wants his money back etc. So I said fine, no problem, please return the item. He wanted the refund up front before sending the item and I said no. Finally he agreed to return it.

I had a couple cases previously where I gave refunds and then the buyer refused to cancel the transaction. I got stuck with the fees. I complained to e-Bay and they said I have to work it out with the buyer.

The buyer is in Canada and it's a parcel so it will automatically have a tracking number.

The question is, what's inside and what condition will it be in? I can't give a refund without seeing the item.

I'm not worried about feedback or stars as I'm going to do the 50 free auctions next month and then call it quits.

So the general consensus is wait for the item to arrive and then go from there?

[pierrelebel]

"wait for the item to arrive and then go from there?"

Yes.

And since the item will most likely not have been received on Monday, you may contact the buyer - stalling - and explain Canada Post could not deliver according to his deadline and the process of refunding will take place once the item is received by you.

[i*m-stilll-here]

So the general consensus is wait for the item to arrive and then go from there?

No..... I don't agree.

However, since you don't care about FB or stars things might be a little different for you.

If the item was shipped with tracking, then you should be able to see where it is.

Was it shipped via Expedited?

If so, then if you did care about FB etc., AND if the item was shipped with tracking then there would be very little reason not to refund now.

I would and I'd make the buyer think it was MY idea.

That's pretty much the inevitable outcome anyway so why fight it?

Also, you have a very annoyed buyer.

Consider that the buyer was very disappointed and then in a position of having to pay expensive return shipping on top of everything else.

Even you seem to understand that the buyer may have been fooled into thinking he had scored a $300 item for $20.  It happens all the time.

These old toys can be tricky.

I don't know what the item # is and perhaps the description was misleading to someone who is not in the know?

(In fact, I'm not sure that I would even have requested a return at all, but without the details it's hard to say.)

[mommandadd]

i*m-stilll-here - if I refund the money now what do I do if the item is returned damaged? Or exchanged? Or the box is empty? Or the item somehow gets lost?

And what would would happen if I refund the money and then they don't agree to cancel the transaction?

Previously I had a non paying buyer who asked to cancel the transaction instead of me doing a non-payer. Then they refused to cancel the transaction but never paid for the item. I contacted e-Bay and was told that I have to work things out with the buyer as they don't get involved in these issues. So in the end I got stuck with the fees.

 pierrelebel and stevephinn2012 have better ideas. Don't refund until the item is returned and if the don't agree to cancel the transaction then just deduct the fees.

As for the feedback, sure it doesn't really matter to me but I don't want to stiff a buyer. One bad seller hurts all sellers.

[i*m-stilll-here]

All I'm saying is that IF the item was shipped with tracking you will have to refund eventually, so why not refund now?

You have nothing to lose.

I'm going to speculate a bit here, and I could be wrong, but until you post the item number it's just guess work.

I don't know what the item was, but for some reason I suspect it was an old tin toy or something very much like that.

In any case, it sure sounds like your buyer bought a replica and not the real deal.

That's the only reason I can see that someone might confuse a $300 toy with a $20 piece of junk????

Unless you stated in your listing that the toy is a replica then IMO that's a problem because as a seller it was your job to make sure that did not happen.

If that is the case then perhaps you should also pay return shipping in addition to the refund and start apologizing to  your buyer and stop worrying about receiving an empty box or whatever.

That might sound harsh but unless you post the item # it's the only conclusion I can draw.

[mommandadd]

You didn't answer any of the quetions I posed. 

[i*m-stilll-here]

You didn't answer any of the quetions I posed. 

Me?  Yes I did.

You have nothing to lose by refunding now IF the seller shipped with tracking.

If the seller shipped shipped with tracking and returned an empty box or a damaged item or a different item you still have to refund.  You can take the rest up with the police if you choose after you've refunded your customer.

(That's the way it used to be.  While I have noticed recent changes  including allowances for complaints re. empty parcels, I doubt that is relevant in your case.)

You didn't answer my questions.

Did the seller ship with tracking?

What is the item number?

[reallynicestamps]

And what would would happen if I refund the money and then they don't agree to cancel the transaction?

Then you are out the fees.

Which on a $20 sale runs around $4.00.

Less than the price of a medium latte.

Worry about feedback and DSRs rather than a little money.

Stay polite. I'd follow pierre's advice.

Your buyer is a bully (and probably a liar- who boasts about a PhD?) Sucks to be him.

Remember that you can leave a calm and factual Response to any feedback he leaves, or to your own if you already left it.

[bb_cool_stuff]

Agree with the others.

Wait until you have the item back in hand.

[i*m-stilll-here]

I too agree with the others.

Since you don't care about FB or stars wait until you have the item back before you refund.

[itcouldhappentou2]

I don't know which idea is sillier.

Providing a refund before the item has been received.

Or thinking that the police would bother to get involved in a $20 dispute.

However this is a nice thought: "I don't want to stiff a buyer. One bad seller hurts all sellers."

[dipmicro]

Providing a refund before the item has been received.

Or thinking that the police would bother to get involved in a $20 dispute.

They do if B&M store calls them to pick-up shoplifter they caught. The fact they drop the kid at his home without formal charges and tell his parents to discipline him is different story, but they have been seen to show up.

Technically, refunding voluntarily means implied agreement. Refund forced by buyer without seller's agreement leaves the buyer open to potential civil suit, which may be quite inexpensive way to annoy the heck out of them for free because if they are in the wrong, they will be liable for your costs including filing and legal fees and even compensation for "lost wages", harassment and stress, so you might be able top make money this way. Forget business reputation, that one is ruined (hey, this company sued their customer ...)

[i*m-stilll-here]

I don't know which idea is sillier.

Providing a refund before the item has been received.

Or thinking that the police would bother to get involved in a $20 dispute.

However this is a nice thought: "I don't want to stiff a buyer. One bad seller hurts all sellers."

The way things get taken out of context here is bizarre at times.

Once Again: My point is that since the refund is inevitable IF the item was shipped with tracking,  then whether you refund today or a week from now is a moot point so you may as well refund at a time when it benefits you the most.

NEVER did I suggest that the police would get involved for a $20 dispute.   I just pointed out that the only that the only thing mommandadd could do if something went wrong was to call the police.

Also, it's a VERY IMPORTANT thought.......... not wanting to hurt other sellers.

One reason that a lot of people do not shop on ebay is because of bad experiences.

It does, in fact, hurt everyone a lot.

Here is a buyer who for some reason thought he had scored a $300 item when it's far from that.   This buyer will be a difficult buyer from now on or never return and he'll spread the word to boot.

[Anonymous]

Sorry it happened to you.  Ask him if it is included a real tracking number.

As for feedback, I would leave him a feedback as "Bid or bought and not happy with purcahse, refund & keep item"  or "claim to return item but never did, etc." on his feedback.  I don't think it is a negative comment.  eBay does encourage us to give us "our experience" with our buyers.  There, eBay??!!