Don't blame eBay for poor sales......but don't blame yourself either.

[finells]

Hello Everyone,

I have noticed lately that alot of people have been frustrated with eBay and have closed their stores and left ebay all together citing eBay fees and the declining dollar as problems.

After looking at some of the sellers items I realised that the problem may just be simple: DEMAND FOR TEH PRODUCT. I am in one of the most competitive sectors of ebay, DVD's, I have to worry about bootleggers and large Incorporated businesses, but since their is such a demand I can get away with it. Some of the products these sellers were offering just were not in demand.

eBay is not the right sales channel for everyone. When you sign up they do noy tell you you are going to be making thousands of dollars a month with no headaches. I think we all expect a bit too much from ebay at times and that leads to our dissapointments.

[shoplineca]

finells
Sorry but it is easy to determine that changes eBay has been making have had a detrimental affect on sales and profits.

As an example, they spent fewer dollars advertising in Canada to attract new buyers or to encourage existing menbers to buy.

Their job is to bring the buyers to us. That is their principal responsibility. Second is to provide the technical support so that the Buyer can bid and purchase fromthe Seller.

Oncew again, so called improvements to eBay's sytem has resulted in greater problems over the last 1 1/2 years.

There responsibility is also to keep the frauds, cheaters, scam artists, copy cats etc etc etc off eBay both as Buyers and Sellers however the incidents of stolen items and knock-offs has been increasing on eBay.

Add that and more (I dont have the time to list them all) coupled with increased fees decreasing my income and tell me again why I should love eBay more today than a few years ago?

Malcolm

[cartoonsinabox]

I don't agree. I think you can make good sales on Ebay if you manage to differente yourself from other sellers. That means finding rare or hard to find product(s). Yes you will have a harder time selling the same item if there are 20 sellers selling the same item (It will end up with who's selling at the lowest price). We manage to import products from Europe or find trendy products hard to find and we have a regular repeat clients. I do agree there are alot fraud or fake stuff here that make it harder to sell. Also reputation(feedback) & customer service(before and after sale VERY IMPORTANT !). I don't know much about musical instruments BUT if you can find harder stuff not sold in North America you can probably make a killing. Also maybe open up your selling destinations (Not only to USA & Canada). I am sure you can find buyers in Italy, France, Japan,etc.). We now sell in places we never thought of selling such as Italy, UK, Japan, France, Austalia,etc.

[ononokajibwa]

I agree with Malcom to a degree. I do sell niche products but with the associated costs to bring items in, Ebay fees, Paypal fees, etc... I often wonder what's the point. Even worse, with whatever is left over the Fed/Prov governments are there with their hands out. The increase in fees by Ebay were absolutely uncalled for and I don't think there was a significant reason to justify them. Can you imagine if landlords starting hiking their rents in the same ratio that Ebay charges its clients? Despite the fee hikes, however, it's marginally cheaper to list here - for now. I'm still thinking of starting my own website and see how that goes.

[recped]

Can you imagine if landlords starting hiking their rents in the same ratio that eBay charges its clients?

I don't need to imagine! I have 25 years of experience leasing retail space. As a landlord eBay is by miles the BEST I've ever had.

Even worse, with whatever is left over the Fed/Prov governments are there with their hands out

Big Taxes? you are either making big profits or have a lousy accountant.

There responsibility is also to keep the frauds, cheaters, scam artists, copy cats etc etc etc off eBay both as Buyers and Sellers however the incidents of stolen items and knock-offs has been increasing on eBay.

Yes scammers are a problem but I'd take them any day over shoplifters. Copy cats, ever seen a successful retail concept that wasn't duplicated to death? Knock-offs, never seen bogus product in a B&M store?

The gravy train of the early days of eBay are long gone, it was good while it lasted. eBay is now just a place where those that work hard, are creative and persevere are the only ones who will survive and prosper.

Personally I don't have a problem with that.

Ben
"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915

[shoplineca]

I bring in unusual instruments as much as possible and find I have about a 2-3 month window before the market is saturated with people that have gone out and found similar, cheaper quality ones and then the market completey dies.

This has happened with well over a dozen specialty instruments that I have brought in.

I shipped globally however the costs of shipping and the duties charged my customers made it far too expensive for most to purchase my items despite all the best efforts I made including subsidizing shipping costs through profits from my sale.

I have shipped to Australia, UK, Netherlands, France, Germany, Scotland and more however the comments from some having to pay duty in excess of the cost of the item plus some shipping delays of over 7 weeks didnt make the endeavour a financially a good one.

That coupled with the amount of time I spent answering inquires about HOW MUCH to SHIP HERE? was a waste of time in relation to any increased volume in sales.

I also sell private label instruments (several brands) and have the International right to them so I do not comepete with any name brand instruments. My costs are about 5% over the delivered/manufactured cost based on container quantities so I am able to compete with both equal quality products as well as most cheaper quality instruments.

But if eBay is spending its money on bringing China on board to bid for our products, I am out of business. I need middle class people with a decent income to purchase my items, not people that are going to have to blow two month's salary to buy something that I sell.

When I started out on eBay, my average selling price was around $250 USD with my highest priced items selling around $600 USD and I had a 85% sell-through.

Today, my average selling price is now around $150 USD, my highest selling item around $300 USD with a 45% sell-through yet I continue to seek out unusual items to be the only guy on eBay selling those items.

The fee changes eBay made hit me hard where I was once able to run interesting auctions that led to me making some good profits. Those were ones with reserves and BINs however with LESS buyers coming to my listings, the costs of continually running auctions and relisting was eating into my profits. I used to run from 28 to 40 auctions at a time of all distinct items.

I also found that I was driving more business from my web site to eBay than eBay was bringing to me. Even today, we nothing featured on my web site, no prices, no shopping cart, I sell more through my web site than I do through eBay.

The other factor to consider is where you have set your profit margin and how much work do you have to do to achieve the same profits that I expect.

I do not want to be a volume seller. I generally strive to make a $100 gross profit minimum per item I sell. SO a good month for me was December 2004 with about 50 sales in the month.

The big change for me is that I was making around $150 gross profit the year before with the same 50 sales in December 2003.

Taxes arent the problem as Ben pointed out, especially if this is a home-based business. Your profits should pay a good portion of your home expenses and automobile.

eBay is no proactive with respect to the increase in scammin, and stolen goods and knock-offs because their sales are generating needed income to satisfy shareholders.

That is like eBay being the landlord of your B&M store and renting to known criminals, the space above your store and providing them with the keys to your business as well as the alarm code. It is not the same as shoplifters.

Malcom

[cartoonsinabox]

Maybe you should concentrate on your website store more then on Ebay (even consider to stop sellling here). I guess we sell more volume(I also noticed alot of competition from the chinese but must of the item they is cheap stuff badly reproduced so most of are client will want the original). If an item doesn't sell first time we can relist and expect other items to sell. We actually do Ebay and operate a website store and a physical store. I guess selling on Ebay isn't obvious for everyone and price hikes seem to hurt alot of sellers. I hope they will wake up one day and star to listen to there clients.

[ospreylinks]

In my opinion, the arguement I have with Ebay (over and above the fee increases) is the lack of attention in attracting new buyers.

I think most will agree that the number of buyers or even inquiries is way down from a couple of years ago and that is alarming (or in my opinion it should be alarming).

I equate Ebay as being a big mall. Their primiary business is to rent space to us the vendors, but they also have to create awareness and excitement about the mall to make people want to visit. Over the past 24 months the only promotion I have seen Ebay run is directed at us the vendors trying to get us to list more or use different listing services (all with a cost), while virtually no print or TV media encouraging Joe Q Public to check it out.....

I may be all wet, but.... ebay collects its fees (not including Paypal) through three avenues... listing fees... accessory fees (bold listing, add ons etc) and final valuation fees. We have seen listing and add on fees increase and in my opinion this is to make up for the current and future perceived shortfalls Ebay expects in revenues from falling sell-through rates..... so the impact they sustain by not generating sales is minimized by the increase in listing and add-on fees...

Too bad we merchants didn't have some method of making up for the decrease in sell through.

Jeff

[finells]

This has been more interseting than I thought, it seems as though some very good business minds have been stumped by eBay. Malcolm seems to spend more time on the powerseller board than the eBay logo does. I am dissapointed by all the godd business people who have just given up on ebay.

I do not remember learning that business was easy and that the money should just flow into your pockets. We all became powersellers for a reason and one of the reasons was not giving up. Business always has tough times and good sellers adapt and are innovative. If you wanna give up gp right ahead but my sales are up at an all time high and I attribute that to creativity and product diversity.

Bon voyage to all the so called "eBay powersellers"

[ospreylinks]

Finells (post 😎 congratulations on your business doing well here. I see you registered in 2002. Kind of the peak to late peak I would say.

Now honestly, you can say that your sell through rate is escalating? If it is that is good, but for many of us as well as through other data, the number of queries or visitors to the Ebay site is dwindling....

You want to sell a zillion items at $4.99 to turn a profit. That is great for you and I wish you nothing but success.... but don't put all of your eggs in the Ebay basket.

We all work hard at our businesses. We use Ebay as a channel to move older stock, close-outs etc. It is not our primary business. With the past US exchange plus more buyers, it actually use to offer us a reasonable return on investment and time. Now due to increase in Ebay fees, reduction in site visits and the dwindling US$, it is not as lucrative and we can get just as good a return by other markets.... that is it....

So a business decision on our part is to minimize our Ebay exposure and seek other avenues. Sure, we still have a few lines that we will list as they are proven sellers and we will take our few dollars in profit and buy Bazoka Bubble Gum.... but our days of posting 40 or 50 listings are gone....as the return isn't worth the time.

Jeff

[shoplineca]

finells
If it werent for people like myself and Jeff and a few newbie PSers that I have seen making good contributions to this board, this board would not exist!

We happen to be sucessful business people who know how to GIVE BACK to the community, including the business community and to the Power Seller community.

I have bought and sold more businesses and run more corportions that you could ever dream of having the opportunity to so rather than pass apparent negative judgement on people that are here assisting others while you seem to be spouting unfound praise for your short-term success on eBay, take the time to learn from the experience of others.

I am not so smart as to not learn from others and that is why I come to the board as well. The best atheletes learn from others, the best musicians learn from others,
the biggest failures know it all, and all too soon!

eBay is a venue to sell product. If that venue doesnt attract business to what you sell then it is the venue that gave up, not those selling.

Lets suppose you produce DVDs on making marriages between a man and a woman more sucessful and you advertise those DVDs in your local newspaper and enjoy some great sales for a few years.

All of a sudden that newspaper changes its format and caters only to the gay community. Are you about to toss out your DVDs and start producing new ones for the homosexual community because that advertising venue changed?

I dont know if eBay is your sole source of income or not. Nor do you know anything about what small piece of my life eBay takes up and how much it financially contributes to my household. I can tell you that I do about 6 figures between eBay and online sales for what amounts to less than 10 hours per week.

I am a Silver Power Seller right now, but will loose that status shortly.

I can also tell you that I received a personal email of thanks from Rizal of eBay.com this week for my regular contributions to a particular thread on the US Power Seller Board so dont lecture me on what makes a good Power Seller or not!

"Hi Malcolm,
I just wanted to say Thank You for all your effort on the thebidwatcher's Canadian selling thread. You effort is very much appreciated. Keep up the good work!
Rizal"

I know little about you finells except from the few comments you have made here and from what you sell. I think you may be confusing selling volume with success and perhaps not overly concerned at how much profit one should expect from their eBay business. That is fine, its your business.

Some people are here running a business on eBay full-time that gives them $2,000 per month to live off (profit, not gross sales) and they are quite happy with that. Others have a B&M operation and eBay allows them to move extra inventories or older stock, as Jeff suggested he does with the golf course he owns. For others this is simply a hobby, such as shooger, who trades in a certain type of card and eBay produces some income for him to enjoy some extras while he is finishing school and gives him an opportunity to enjoy his hobby at the same time.

So DONT be disapppointed in those you dont know anything about, you dont have any right to be.

DONT suggest that we shouldnt have a right to negatively comment on the changes eBay is making such that it is having a detrimental affect on so many businesess.

DONT suggest that we are "so-called" Power Sellers because you certainly lack that right to do so by your comments to those of us who have enjoyed that position longer than you have and have played an active role in its community.

Malcolm

[finells]

Well...I see that this has taken a turn for the worse. I never said you do not have the right to criticize eBay for their decisions.

I would like to say that you also know nothing of me and your statements about what I have done in my life hold no merit. I do this for fun, and even so I am more profitable than most who dedicate their lives to this. I hold a very senior position at one of the top 100 companies in North America and I am only in my late 20's.

This was not supposed to be a personal debate, all I wanted to do was say that if people are not happy with eBay than just leave. eBay has given people more opportunities than almost any other venue would. People who knew nothing of business or were on their last gasp have come here and turned their life around, and to sit here and watch people complain that they are not making $150 profit a sale makes me sick.

I wish everyone on ebay the best and apreciate your contributions, they have helped me at some points.

Thanks Malcolm and Jeff.

[recped]

Shoplineca If it werent for people like myself and Jeff and a few newbie PSers that I have seen making good contributions to this board, this board would not exist!

Malcolm, nobody is disputing your contribution to this board, I've always been surprised by the very small number of posters here, I only hope there are plenty of lurkers.

I have to agree with finells, you have come to the conclusion that eBay does not work for you any more and basically are sitting and waiting for the plug to be pulled on your access to this board. It does no good to help or encourage active sellers to be constantly providing your doom and gloom story. We've all read it often enough and although we sympathize with your plight it's just become like a broken record of a grumpy old man (I know you are neither grumpy nor old).

eBay is just a venue, you make what you can as you can from what is provided. While eBay may have trouble continuing the historical growth rates or even experience a net slippage in buyers and transaction value the facts remain as others have stated...

eBay provides an opportunity for tens of thousands of people to participate in a market worth billions of dollars. Some will succeed and prosper, others will not.

Ben
"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915

[shoplineca]

finells
First of all I made no comment about why you do eBay and in fact said everyone does it for different reasons, from hobby to business or whatever.

You made a sarcastic comment about the amount of time I devote to the Power Seller board which I dont feel was called for.

Then you suggested that the Power Sellers (those who have made comments about eBay changes, those who are closing their stores etc.) expected money to flow in easy, something you never learned about in business, an insinuation that we know nothing about business.

... and you ended it with wishing us "So-Called eBay Power Sellers a Bon Voyage".

I responded alot more diplomatically than I had to over those off-the-cuff assumptions on your part.

Ben,
Long before you came to post on this board, it was nearly dead. I started posting within a month of eBay.ca beginning and it was a healty board with great people and wonderful discussions, very busy indeed.

Of the original Power Sellers that have been posting here, ony two or three remain. The rest spend their time on the US Board.

Now your comments about my continually promoting my "doom and gloom" story is from exactly where Ben?

You said that eBay no longer works for me so I am sitting and waiting for the end! What a load of crap!

Loosing Power Seller status for me as stated ealier is only loosing the access to this and the US Board and I assure you there is no doom and gloom in that.

I certainly have a problem with the absence of eBay advertising in Canada. I dont see any. I dont see any Pinks on the Canadian Power Seller discussion Board and in general I am paying aot more for less.

I notice the biggest difference between the Cdn Board and the US Board is the attitude of the people. The Canadians are only to ready to accept what is thrown in their face while the Americans both challenge and demand better and I guess that is why they get it and we dont.

So lie down, be good little Canadians and accept increased eBay fees, less eBay advertising and less eBay service and what ever you do, dont complain about it or try to do anything to force them to undo what they have done and please dont allow them to improve things for us. That would be so un-Canadian.

Malcolm

[ospreylinks]

Finells' ..... In your 20's and hold a senior management position with a major North American company.... hey that's great!

I don't chastise, but put forward my point of view...

Site visits to Ebay are down.... many people are indicating sell through is down.... now I don't dispute that some are doing very well.... that is good....

But to us that were here prior 2001.... there has been a definate decline in PROFITABILITY.....due to a number of factors.

I am not getting into an arguement, just stating facts as they apply to my business....

Jeff

An honest question, if you have a senior management position with a major North American corp, why waste your time selling game cartridges for 5 bucks? Just seems strange to me.

[discountlabelsupplies]

Look, you can analyze it to death. This is a total side business for me and my sales had a slight jump last month and now are down in the dumps again. Yes I am also going to be finished very soon.



I consider myself to be a good businessman, but there is no way to compete using accepted business practices. Margins that are needed to sustain a brick and mortar business do not work in the virtual business realm. This is free enterprise at its best (worst?!!)

In many sectors, sellers 4 years ago were getting higher dollars on ebay than from a brick and mortar stores. Now ebay has been flooded with sellers that are willing to make 2 , 3 or $4.00 on a sale of $25.00 or $30.00.

Ebay is becoming a total buyers market. This is great but you have to work pretty darn hard to make a few bucks these days selling on ebay.

[shoplineca]

Actually its not a very good place for Buyers either. All the carriers have taken advantage of eBay' success and are maximizing their profits as well.

When Sellers suggest to Buyers not to spend $30 in stores when you can purchase the same item on eBay for only $20 and then the Buyer gets hit with $10 in shipping and waits 2 weeks for his item, it is no longer the great venue it once was.

With eBay increasing their fees, many Sellers have had to look at making up the loss of income by slightly marking up their shipping costs.

discountlabelsupplies, you are 100% correct in your suggestion that running an eBay business contradicts running a business in the real world in almost every way.

99.9% of people selling on eBay dont cost their time, their packaging, their cost of gas etc to their business. So when they think they are turning a small profit because their is some extra cash in their pocket, in reality they have not paid themselves a salary for their time in eBay.

For someone to take a whack at my statement that the $150 per item profit I made 1 1/2 years ago on eBay, now turns only a $100 profit and suggest that my complaint about no longer making $150 makes them sick, reflects how little they know about operating a business in the real world.

They dont factor in the cost of the item, the time and effort to import, to pre-pay for shipments, inventory costs, GST etc.

The greatest problem that I see today is going to be the Chinese market that eBay is penetrating which will create a mnassive trade imbalance. In the short-run, we can expect a massive surge in North Americans buying from China with a continuing erosion of North American Sellers.

Oh, sorry if this sounds like doom and gloom Ben. Its really not. Its a discussion that hopefully leads to some positive approaches to resolving a potential problem that perhaps can eventually be put before eBay to consider implementing.

This would include eBay enforcing the intellectual proerty rights of owners more fiercly and pulling the increasing number of people copying others' listings. This would mean stronger and faster action taken against those selling knock-offs. More proactive approach to the spamming and the Nigerian scammers.

There is a big difference between recognizing problems and discussing solutions than passing those comments off as one spouting doom and gloom.

Malcolm

[finells]

Hey Jeff,

I sell cartridges because it is a hobby. Being as old as I am NES was a apart of my youth. That's all. I am not looking for massive sales numbers. I make a few bucks a month that provides me with a golf fund.

As far as this discussion board goes, I understand that You and Malcolm post and try to help others but you 2 are the exception rather than the norm. Most people besides you and a few others come into this discussion board to vent their frustrations. Then you add discouraged powersellers to the mix and all this does is further discourages them to quit. That is my main concern with the forum in its current state.

[shoplineca]

Venting is a very important and normal part of anyone's life in business. With eBay, most Sellers are on their own until they come to the Board when they quickly discover that they are not alone, that thir problems are not unique and that others can offer sympathy, suggestions, constructive critism or simpy a shoulder.

Sometimes one needs to let off some steam and when so many Sellers sit at home alone, this is often the place to do it.

It could be becuase of a deal gone sour, another Seller stealing their listings or pics or just boredom. Most face it and everyone nneds a means to vent, let off steam, seek refuge or turn for help.

This goes for the long time, experienced Sellers as well as the more recently appointed Power Sellers. There is no discrimination between any of them as to why they come here to post or to lurk nor should anyone be refused the opportunity to vent, to question eBay or to post a Funny of the Day.

Where the Board gets ugly is when a Seller tells another Seller or group of Sellers what they can and cannot do or can or cannot post on this board.

If it violates eBay's rules then report it, otherwise the choice is to read it or ignore it.

Malcolm

[ospreylinks]

Actually I don't think I have started any discussions about quiting, but have commented on a few....

Oh well, I guess I don't hold the same right to voice my point of view as others.... so I will depart quietly...

Enjoy the board.... you are the boss and its your!

Jeff