FEEDBACK EXTORTION QUESTION

[2012sincity]

Hello All. 

As it sometimes happens you get a customer than simply isnt reasonable, as in this case. I sold an item to a customer that had a couple of pcs missing. It was an error on my part, I admitted it. I offered to send the missing pcs, or I would pay for the item to be returned and then send a replacement with the missing pcs.

The buyer wanted me to send a replacement first then return the item. Well we all know not to do that. So then the buyer says" well just send the missing parts". I agreed. While I was preparing to resolve the issue, the buyer gives me a negative feedback, stating , not as described and I wouldnt do anything to fix the problem. Obviously I got a little excited and emailed the buyer asking what the h3ll was this about. That this was unfair as I am doing everything I can do to help you. I also stated that due to the statement of not doing anything, I will not make you a liar and wont send you the pcs. The buyer then stated that the feedback will remain till the pcs are sent or a replacement is sent . 

Is this feedback extortion?

I would also ask if you know how to contact Ebay about Feed back Extortion, because it seems they have changed things around

[amethyst1415]

I'm not seeing any negative feedback left for you. Did you already fix the problem?

If not, I would respond underneath the negative feedback that you and the buyer agreed on sending additional pieces before negative feedback left. I would also NOT send the remaining pieces. I think what they did is rude. Turn the tables around. Tell them when they revise the feedback you will send the additional pieces.

As for the negative feedback: When I am looking to buy something and I check the sellers feedback if I see only a couple of negative ones with an explanation underneath I realize it is probably the buyer who was ridiculous, as in this case. It's when there are more than five negative feedback with the same problem then I realize it is the seller and I do not buy. I wouldn't worry about one negative feedback.

🙂

[rose-dee]

Well, I would contact eBay about this one -- use the Customer Support link, follow the prompts and get a phone #.  Usually FB extortion doesn't happen after the fact, but this buyer is clearly wrong to hold you hostage, and it could be seen as extortion.

Did you communicate with the buyer through eBay Messages?  I hope so, as eBay will be able to see that you offered a replacement or to send the buyer the missing pieces.  Personally I would have simply offered a refund or a replacement upon return of the item, but it was generous of you to offer to pay for the return shipping. 

This buyer's behaviour is outrageous, but I wouldn't get into open jousting with him in the FB forum just yet, because a response will not be necessary if you get eBay to remove his FB.  (BTW, I don't see a negative on your FB page -- did eBay already remove it?). 

Also remember that with the new seller standards, FB removed by eBay will not count as a defect on your record, whereas FB revised by a buyer will.  So even if he revises his FB to positive, it won't do you any good, and if he revises it to a neutral, you'll still get a defect.  I would not engage in any further communication with this seller until you've spoken to eBay. 

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

grow up. 

This is why the feedback system is so flawed. It's often based on emotion and things turn into a spitting match. 

Apologize to the buyer, send the missing parts, and explain how negative feedback can stop you from selling  so you got upset when you shouldn't have. 

The FB sounds like it was allowed under ebay's rules. If so, it's not extortion to say you won't remove it until the problem is resolved. 

You are allowed to say Fix the problem or I will give you neg FB, or fix the problem or I will not remove neg FB. 

Sellers who react in a **bleep** for tat emotional spat do not help small sellers on ebay. Next time suck it up . A seller is at a lot of disadvantages, this is one of them.

If you can get back on the buyers good side, see if you can get the FB removed, but I believe it's still a 'defect'  

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

the forum edited out my 'ti.t for tat' comment. 🙂

'Ti,t' and 'tat' are both the names of small blows which originated as 'tip' and 'tap'.

[i*m-still-here]

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@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:

grow up. 

This is why the feedback system is so flawed. It's often based on emotion and things turn into a spitting match. 

Apologize to the buyer, send the missing parts, and explain how negative feedback can stop you from selling  so you got upset when you shouldn't have. 

_________________________________________________

Ditto.  That's a lot like the message I was going to post and didn't.

Clearly, there were a lot of messages exchanged between the two of you.

The buyer left NFB and you responded that you weren't going to follow through on your promise because of the FB left.

That sounds like extortion too.

[nuvistors]

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@2012sincity wrote:

Hello All. 

As it sometimes happens you get a customer than simply isnt reasonable, as in this case. I sold an item to a customer that had a couple of pcs missing. It was an error on my part, I admitted it. I offered to send the missing pcs, or I would pay for the item to be returned and then send a replacement with the missing pcs.

The buyer wanted me to send a replacement first then return the item. Well we all know not to do that. So then the buyer says" well just send the missing parts". I agreed. While I was preparing to resolve the issue, the buyer gives me a negative feedback, stating , not as described and I wouldnt do anything to fix the problem. Obviously I got a little excited and emailed the buyer asking what the h3ll was this about. That this was unfair as I am doing everything I can do to help you. I also stated that due to the statement of not doing anything, I will not make you a liar and wont send you the pcs. The buyer then stated that the feedback will remain till the pcs are sent or a replacement is sent . 

Is this feedback extortion?

I would also ask if you know how to contact Ebay about Feed back Extortion, because it seems they have changed things around

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You made an error and then placed the blame on the buyer by  not sending a replacement.   (without a great deal of  nagging)

That is not a good way to  make friends.

[rose-dee]

@nuvistors wrote:

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You made an error and then placed the blame on the buyer by  not sending a replacement.   (without a great deal of  nagging)

That is not a good way to  make friends.

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I disagree.  The OP apparently made an honest mistake (parts missing).  We're all capable of that.  The OP offered the buyer two reasonable options to "make things right" - including paying for return shipping, which eBay does not require a seller to do.  Instead the buyer decided to use FB as leverage because the OP refused to send a replacement before the original item was returned. 

This was a completely unreasonable demand on the part of the buyer -- the buyer would then have two items and the seller would have no assurance the first would be returned, nor any assurance the whole thing wasn't a scam on the part of the buyer.  The buyer had no business using FB as a means of getting a 2nd item before returning the original one, especially if this was an item of any value.  He obviously thought he could hold the seller's feet to the fire to get his way. 

I do think the seller should probably have stopped at that point, contacted eBay to deal with the buyer and allowed the buyer to open a case if he wanted to, rather than engaging in further unpleasant communication. 

Since the negative FB was already a defect, the seller really had nothing to lose by letting the buyer open an INAD case if he wanted to.  The buyer would have discovered that eBay's policy in such cases is "return for refund" at the buyer's cost.  So the buyer would have found himself back where he started, with the possibility of having to pay for return shipping himself. 

I wouldn't be surprised that the fact the FB is gone may mean eBay did the right thing and removed it. 

[mr.elmwood]

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@2012sincity wrote:

Hello All. 

As it sometimes happens you get a customer than simply isnt reasonable, as in this case. I sold an item to a customer that had a couple of pcs missing. It was an error on my part, I admitted it. I offered to send the missing pcs, or I would pay for the item to be returned and then send a replacement with the missing pcs.

The buyer wanted me to send a replacement first then return the item. Well we all know not to do that. So then the buyer says" well just send the missing parts". I agreed. While I was preparing to resolve the issue, the buyer gives me a negative feedback, stating , not as described and I wouldnt do anything to fix the problem. Obviously I got a little excited and emailed the buyer asking what the h3ll was this about. That this was unfair as I am doing everything I can do to help you. I also stated that due to the statement of not doing anything, I will not make you a liar and wont send you the pcs. The buyer then stated that the feedback will remain till the pcs are sent or a replacement is sent . 

Is this feedback extortion?

I would also ask if you know how to contact Ebay about Feed back Extortion, because it seems they have changed things around

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Too many choices. Buyer could not process all of that and got madder than they already were. To them it sounded like you were dodging the issue. They had a problem and you answered with a question. They did not want a question, they wanted a direct answer.

You should have done one of two things:

- Return for refund

- Sent the needed parts out.

The "Golden Rule" does not apply as it does not work. The better rule is: "Treat the customer as they expect to be treated".

This is not FB extortion as the FB has already been left. FD is the buyer's "opinion" of the transaction.

[rose-dee]

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@mr.elmwood wrote:

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You should have done one of two things:

- Return for refund

- Sent the needed parts out.

This is not FB extortion as the FB has already been left. FD is the buyer's "opinion" of the transaction.

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With all due respect, I still disagree.  The two choices you mention would still would have been a question to the buyer asking him to make a choice. 

I don't think the buyer was being asked to deal with rocket science -- the OP told him he could have the missing pieces or return the item and get a whole new one.  That really doesn't seem too complicated, and it sounds as if the seller was being very accommodating to a customer, very "buyer friendly".  I had a similar situation recently (as a buyer), and the seller offered the very same thing.  I was impressed, and told him so. 

As far as the FB is concerned, IMO it might still be seen as extortion if the buyer was using it (holding it over the seller's head), attempting to get a 2nd item without returning the 1st, which is not what eBay wants a buyer to do. 

I hope the OP comes back and tells us how this turned out.  Since the neg FB is gone, it would be interesting to know why/how. 

[mr.elmwood]

I expressed myself poorly. I meant the seller should have done one of those two things, not offer up alternatives.

The mantra over on SC .com is "return for refund". Wash, rinse, repeat. If the customer wants something else, let them direct the conversation.

I appreciate that our OP was trying to do their best. The road to heck is paved with good intentions.

[rose-dee]

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@mr.elmwood wrote:
The road to heck is paved with good intentions.

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I do agree with that - d----d if you do, d-----d if you don't sometimes. 

Mind you, my buyers are by and large a wonderful bunch, who are willing (and able) to read, so I've never run into one who had trouble making a choice between two clear options. 

[mr.elmwood]

I have run into them. They create a problem and then get defensive. Then it starts compounding.

They believe the squeaky wheel gets the grease and just start screaming, I have had two, that bad. Both times, they screamed themselves into losing.

Does not matter what you say, you are going to lose. That is why I always say "return for return". I let them initiate any conversation.

"Return for refund" is code for "I'm not going to give into your screaming. You make your own best decisions". It is amazing how often that leads to "Not what I meant" as they back away from their original stance.

[jersey..authentix]

" I hope the OP comes back and tells us how this turned out.  Since the neg FB is gone, it would be interesting to know why/how." 

I do apologize for the confusion. I do still have the Neg feedback. It is on another account. I sell different items and like to keep them on different accounts

I dont know if Ebay will allow this but I am pasting one of the messages I received. . This is what I received after the Feedback was left where I went on to tell her about the fact that I was more than willing to fix the problem. Her response.

[rose-dee]

Thanks for posting here again.  

As I said, since you'd already offered to send the missing pieces or a whole new (complete) item upon return of the original item, and the negative FB was left by this buyer, it might have been better to just let her open a case anyway, since you already had a defect on this transaction.  EBay would have instructed her to return her item for a refund (with tracking, at her own cost) and any further back-and-forth discussion would have been avoided. 

Since that's now water under the bridge and can't be changed, have you contacted eBay about getting the negFB removed? 

Was this an expensive item?  If so, in eBay's eyes it might support your decision not to send a 2nd item until the 1st had been returned. 

[rose-dee]

I have to say there's something classically passive-aggressive about that message you received from the buyer.  You should block them once this is resolved, IMO.  Incidentally, where was the buyer located - in Canada, US, or overseas?

[jersey..authentix]

The buyer left NFB and you responded that you weren't going to follow through on your promise because of the FB left.

That sounds like extortion too.

As a part of the buyers statement, she said that I wasnt will to do anything. Before this was left, I offer to send the missing parts or have the item returned where I was willing to pay for return and replacement shipping cost.

Well I didnt want to make her a liar ( as I told her ), and I rescinded  my offers. 

[jersey..authentix]

Since that's now water under the bridge and can't be changed, have you contacted eBay about getting the negFB removed? 

I have contacted ebay to see if I can get the feedback removed. Still waiting for a response.

She did file a claim and she  has now  the option to return the item at her expense or I guess keep it. Havent heard anything yet.

I blocked her as soon as I told her that my offers were off the table.

She is a Saskatonian. 

[rose-dee]

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@10hello9 wrote:

Well I didnt want to make her a liar ( as I told her ), and I rescinded  my offers. 

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Despite the fact that I feel this buyer acted very badly in this transaction, it would have been best not to engage with her in a test of wills like this.  This sort of thing only escalates the tension, and will not do you any favours with eBay.

Let's hope not, but if you ever have a similar situation occur again (i.e. buyer holding your FB hostage to make you do something eBay does not require -- or even recommend), it's best to let the buyer open a case and have them deal with eBay directly.  They would soon find out they were wrong to insist on receiving a 2nd item before returning the 1st.  They'd also find out that "reporting" the seller in this situation would be absolutely meaningless.

[rose-dee]

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@10hello9 wrote:

Since that's now water under the bridge and can't be changed, have you contacted eBay about getting the negFB removed? 

I have contacted ebay to see if I can get the feedback removed. Still waiting for a response.

She did file a claim and she  has now  the option to return the item at her expense or I guess keep it. Havent heard anything yet.

I blocked her as soon as I told her that my offers were off the table.

She is a Saskatonian. 

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Please come back and report on the outcome of this issue -- I'd be very interested to know if eBay does the right thing and removes the FB. 

It's a situation that I think any seller could run into - we all are capable of making a mistake.  Good sellers try their best to make things right as soon as they're aware there is a problem, although as I said, in this instance I would have avoided further contact as soon as the buyer insisted I do something against eBay policy.  I would have either reported her, and/or contacted eBay immediately to remove the negative FB. 

You just seem to have run into a very cranky, difficult and unreasonable person who was determined to create a mountain out of a molehill.  Some people unfortunately thrive on conflict.

Best of luck with this.  Please let us know how this turns out.  Now that the new defect system in place, it's much more important to know how eBay deals with such matters.