HANDLING FEES: Am I the jerk? Excessive to charge $10 handling to mail a damaged item in used box?

[momcqueen]

I've made my personal thoughts on handling fees clear over the years so I will preface my question by stating that bias up-front. 

I bought something from a Canadian seller as a result of the Buy Canadian promotion and they charged me a $10 handling fee to ship me something in a clearly used box with clearly used packaging materials which protected an item with undisclosed damage. Do I have any right to feel as if I have been bamboozled? 

The item cost $50 Cad and I paid $23.16 in postage. The actual cost of postage was $13.13 CAD. And, like I said, there was no expense to consider for packing material. And I was sent an item that was bent and beat up. 

On the other hand, a week later, I bought the exact same item from another Canadian seller who charged $54 Cad for the item in question and $15.97 postage but the postage they paid was $13.79 Cad. Same type of used box and used packing material. Handling fee of $2.18 and the item was in mint condition. Perfect. 

Of course I realize seller B charged me $4 more for the same item than Seller A did. Seller B sent me a better item, however, and only charged $2.18 for handling. Both utilized previously-used shipping containers and packaging material. 

Is a $10-handling fee on a damaged $50 item shipped in a used cardboard box 'excessive' by anyone else's standards? Or is it just me? I have not yet spoken to the seller about it, and I have not left feedback. 

I want honest opinions on whether my feelings are unreasonable in this respect, please and thank you.

[momcqueen]

Also, both eBay and PayPal invoices show Shipping and Handling. Again, please ask for screenshots if you require that to believe me.

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

Whether or not handling charge of $10 is excessive is irrelevant. The item is SNAD since it arrived damaged, period.

When I buy I look at the overall price of the item to see if I think it's worth it. Sometimes I see books from Japanese seller, list price $20 and shipping $10. I know it does not cost $10 to ship that book with regular mail so to me the question is, is this book worth $30? If yes, buy. If no, move on.

And I re-use boxes, cardboard paper, and bubble wraps all the time. My bubble wrap travels from Japan to me, then to the rest of the world... 🙂 I use "free" shipping because I simply find it more convenient to include my costs into the listed price of the item. I like to reuse things (if they are in reusable condition) to be more eco-friendly. I actually frown when I receive items in excessive new packagings. 

You mentioned contacting eBay customer service. Have you thought of messaging the seller first to give them a chance to present their side of the story? Communication is key. I would think buyers who open INR at me without communicating with me first are jerks. And really I think you are overthinking about this $10 handling charge only because the item arrived damaged. Let's say the item arrived damaged but sent in brand new packagings, would it make you feel better about the $10 handling charge? Personally I wouldn't, to me it's still a SNAD but I'd message the seller about it first, and I personally would settle with a partial refund. 

I'm not certain my lovely children have earned a $73 gift today only because the seller was not forthcoming about its true state.

Save it for X'mas present? Now you have one less thing to worry about on your shopping list 😄

[marnotom!]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

I made no mention of import fees until you raised it, I'm not confused.

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I did not raise the issue of import charges until after you did.  Please re-read my post.  I mentioned the Global Shipping Program, yes, but only in the context of a shipping option.

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

To answer the second part of your question, yes. I always calculate shipping paid by the seller and compare it against shipping paid to the seller so that I have an understanding of the handling fees I have paid, whether that was done upfront or secretively charged to me. I believe every buyer has this right. If a seller has charged me handling well above and beyond the service they have provided, I don't return with repeat business. I don't operate on gut instinct, I use math and facts on which to base my opinions.

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If I were to strike out the word "handling" in the second to last sentence, we'd be on exactly the same page.

If you were unable to ascertain the cost of the shipping method the seller used, you would be unable to use "math and facts" to base your opinions, such as with a purchase from a commercial online retailer.

[marnotom!]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

And anyone who has created a listing knows 'handling fees' exist. They're on the Sell Your Item form flow. Have you used it lately? I can provide screenshots of it if you need proof. Happy to do so.

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Not all buyers have sold on eBay, though.  Try to think like a buyer who does nothing but buy on eBay.  There's only one reference to "handling" on an eBay listing page and it's in probably the smallest font size possible.

[momcqueen]

A commercial shipper? I pay no additional postage fees for commercial orders I place because I shop carefully and deliberately to take advantage of free shipping promotions. With 'free' meaning, of course, already included. Not added to the order for no particular reason with no added value.

[momcqueen]

My opinions on handling fees were formed as a buyer. I didn't like feeling ripped off by sellers who charged excessive handling fees without offering a service in return so my vow as a seller was to charge none myself. Note: excessive handling fees. A dollar or two, or even more when exceptional care has obviously been taken in packaging an item -- that is a valid handling fee. Charging a buyer $10 for nothing at all is excessive. Check the guidelines offered by Raphael above if you don't want to take my word for it.

[marnotom!]

The amount a seller adds to their shipping costs to cover handling is not treated as a separate line item on an invoice.  The whole kit and kaboodle is called "shipping and handling" or, as seems to be increasingly the case these days (such as PayPal), simply "shipping".

The buyer only sees one charge on the invoice, not two.

As usual, I don't think we're that too far off in our opinions.  I just think that your objections to the seller's--uh--handling of this matter would be better framed as a value for money proposition in terms of what they charged you overall in shipping and the care and attention they put into their packaging.

You've deflected a couple of times now the point that if the seller used a shipping method where you had no idea of what the seller was charged by the carrier, you probably wouldn't be railing about the seller's handling fees or, more accurately, the mark-up of their shipping costs.

[momcqueen]

That's because there is virtually no circumstance under which I pay shipping without knowing precisely in the end what the difference is between what the shipper has paid for postage versus what he or she has charged me. It doesn't happen. I spend my money carefully, and I do my research. When a seller charges me $23 for shipping, my expectation is that it will cost them $20 to mail it to me. If it costs half that with no value added for service -- which is the entire point of a handling fee according to eBay -- I cry foul.

I already answered that above. I don't buy from other online retailers and pay postage. Ever. I wait until I have need for thr amount that triggers their free (postage included) amount. That's an average of $35 most places I shop for my household.

When I buy online from eBay and the seller is offering free postage (postage included) I already know what they'll need to pay postage on that item to get it to me from their stated location.

Like I said above, I spend my money carefully, and I am aware of where it is spent.

This seller was in Ontario. The shipping seemed high but I knew in advance the weight and dimension of an item such as this so I assumed they dispatched from a rural or remote location. I'm not going to discriminate from a seller shipping from a rural or remote location. Also, I would not complain if the item had been so perfectly packed or in such pristine condition it appeared to have been birthed by angels. This was an excessive use of a handling fee with no value-added for the fee which, according to eBay, is the reason to use a handling fee. Don't just take my word for it, read it for yourself where it is cited above.

[momcqueen]

I'm back. Having spoken now to Customer Service about this, I have officially opened a Return request for Item Not as Described due to the undisclosed damage on my order. (Also, there is a discrepancy between the seller's item title and photo and their Detailed Item Information as provided in the Product Catalogue which is for an entirely different item.) We will see where things go from here. As always, the seller has five days to respond to the return.

As to the issue of the Handling Fee, ebay Customer Service confirms a handling fee is supposed to represent 'actual' cost of handling an item for shipment. (Like packaging supplies or additional above-and-beyond effort to ensure safe delivery of an order.) To misrepresent actual costs on an item is a violation of ebay policy, the CSR said, and I was urged to 'report the seller for that violation' which I declined since I assume my Return request will more than likely offend them as it stands alone. 

That would reinforce my understanding that handling fees that represent no value for service (previously used shipping materials and an item that arrived in a damaged condition anyway) is a violation of the policy. This is the basis of my opposition to the whole $10 extra I had to pay on shipping than was spent by the seller. That being said, I think most buyers aren't going to beef about a buck or two in handling fees even when they don't see an obvious benefit from the money they parted with.

But once the dollar amount exceeds a buyer's comfort level, that seller leaves themselves open to reports for policy violations on their handling fees. This I learned today. If I did indeed charge handling fees, as a seller, I would be very careful to ensure they were modest so as not to incur any buyer's wrath. Buyers view postage as throw-away money not as adding value to their item so handling fees on top of that seem only sneaky and tricky to many of them. 

I will also point out that the CSR was overly apologetic for my difficulty with this transaction and sought assurance it would not prevent me from buying on ebay in the future. As a sellers, this should raise a big old red flag for us: if ebay worries that poor buyer experiences like too-high handling fees and issues with Returns which are for Items Not as Described, we should be too. Every time a buyer gets cheesed off by a poor experience with some other seller and vows to never return, it affects us all. 

[marnotom!]

I'm having trouble reconciling this statement of yours:

. . . there is virtually no circumstance under which I pay shipping without knowing precisely in the end what the difference is between what the shipper has paid for postage versus what he or she has charged me. It doesn't happen. I spend my money carefully, and I do my research.

with this one:

The shipping seemed high but I knew in advance the weight and dimension of an item such as this so I assumed they dispatched from a rural or remote location.

I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but one reading of this scenario that I keep coming back to is that we're looking at is that this is a variant on buyer's remorse.  You're disappointed with yourself for not conducting yourself to your own standards as a buyer.

We can keep discussing what's eBay "legal" and what isn't and how much a seller is able to let buyers decide what's an appropriate price for an item and services connected with that item, but what's getting ignored here is the human factor.  At this point we have no idea what was going on in the seller's head when they marked up their shipping cost the way they did.  They may have reasons that, while not jiving with the Word of eBay, may actually be somewhat reasonable, such as the possibility of hiring someone to do the packaging and shipping.

I am interested in getting more information on the seller's side of the story and seeing how this unfolds.  I'm sure you'll keep us posted.  

[momcqueen]

Buyer's remorse? "You're disappointed with yourself for not conducting yourself to your own standards as a buyer."

I'm not certain who you think you're taking to here but you are making assumptions and taking liberties that I find personally offensive.

[marnotom!]

I described this as a variant of buyer's remorse and indicated that this is only one of several possible half-baked scenarios I'm playing with right now based on what's been written in this thread.  No judgment has been rendered.

However, what keeps nagging at me is your suggestion that you know precisely what a seller would be charged for shipping before buying from them, yet in this case you based your decision on an assumption rather than what you term "math and facts".  I don't know how to reconcile these two statements.

[pjcdn2005]

Why worry about reconciling them?  You've given your opinion, mj has given hers, I don't see any point in hashing out all the nuances of why she feels the way she does.

[momcqueen]

By offering your opinion that this situation should be labelled 'buyer's remorse' you are, by extension, accusing me of committing a Returns-related fraud. I take exception to that.

You have overlooked the facts: (1) The item arrived damaged. (2) It did not match the description. (3) The handling fee was almost equal to the actual cost of postage, and did not reflect actual value in handling. All three of these things are prohibited by eBay policy.

'Buyer's remorse' plays no part in this. Suggesting that it has is akin to publicly accusing me of dishonesty at best. And actual fraud at worst. That is not acceptable.

I bought an item, I paid for it, I did not receive what I paid for. Period. Please save your conjecture, marnotomi, for some other situation.

[marnotom!]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

By offering your opinion that this situation should be labelled 'buyer's remorse' you are, by extension, accusing me of committing a Returns-related fraud.

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But I'm not labelling this situation as "buyer's remorse" as you seem to be defining it.   Either you are misreading/misunderstanding my post or you feel you have to throw up some sort of smokescreen in front of my other point.

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Why worry about reconciling them?  

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I guess to me this inconsistency is at the crux of why this situation occurred in the first place.

[momcqueen]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

By offering your opinion that this situation should be labelled 'buyer's remorse' you are, by extension, accusing me of committing a Returns-related fraud.

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But I'm not labelling this situation as "buyer's remorse" as you seem to be defining it.   Either you are misreading/misunderstanding my post or you feel you have to throw up some sort of smokescreen in front of my other point.

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I have no idea what you mean by 'smokescreen' but I don't think I care to learn.

Thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts. 

I am now looking toward to hearing what others have to say about it.

Goodbye. 

[marnotom!]

Fair enough.  I was planning on bailing out after your next post anyway.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[kitschnvintage]

... "a $10 handling fee (1) to ship me something in a clearly used box with clearly used packaging materials (2) which protected an item with undisclosed damage (3) " ....

Is this the eBay version of a hat trick? 

I personally think $10 is excessive for handling in most cases ( unless it was a really big or heavy or fragile item that required super awesome packing materials ). To me $10 sounds like a recoup of ebay & paypal fees for this specific transaction.

Does the Seller in question have 5 stars in the shipping costs of his/her feedback profile? Maybe others have been "complaining" by leaving less than 5 stars?

I have found that most Sellers will refund the "excessive" shipping costs when contacted ... I usually say something like Thank you so much I have received the item today and it's wonderful ( I know yours was not but lets treat that as a separate problem ...)  and I hate to bring this up but I noticed the actual shipping costs were only xx.xx and you charged me xx.xx .... do you ever refund over charges in shipping? Thank you very kindly for your time. 

Usually the Seller will offer a refund of the difference with apologies, they forgot or didn't notice ... that sort of thing.  Sometimes a Seller can enter the wrong shipping dimensions or weight in the ebay calculator and they don't realize just how much it inflates the shipping costs.   But in a nut shell, I think $10 is a lot and I would have contacted the Seller right away. 

[kitschnvintage]

So, let's pretend you let the $10 handling fee slide. You notice you've paid $10 more for shipping but you're like oh well whatever.... You open the box and .... now for your second problem of the item not as described ... you get an item that has undisclosed damage ... you do the polite thing of contacting the Seller first and you say I have received the item today, thank you so much for the prompt shipping , but I am disappointed that the box has damage that is not stated or pictured in your listing.  I would like to make arrangements for a return please. And the Seller replies ... well how about a partial refund of $10 to compensate for the fact that the box is not in mint condition and you keep the item?  Now you're like great, I'm getting back the $10 you overcharged me for shipping which isn't really discounting the damaged item is it? You could try pointing that out to the Seller to see if he/she could dig a little deeper into their pockets for a true discount for the damage .... Most people probably wouldn't they would just go woohoo I got $10 off  ...  and at the end of the day you'd probably be filing a SNAD because by then the Seller is no longer on speaking terms with you ... 

I'm not sure if I've answered any type of question you had or was just writing to myself at this point , sorry 🙂