eBay

dhslk · ‎08-18-2014

Hello. Against my better judgement, I am posting here (trolls, please stay away). Are any other Canadian sellers who ship a large percentage of their orders overseas via CanadaPost SURFACE mail having the same problem as me?

I have been selling internationally for over a decade, have been TRS since the program started and have 100% positive feedback. This year, I have a fair number of "DEFECTS' for international opened cases for INR, all but one of which were closed by the buyer when their order arrived shortly thereafter. Virtually all of these follow the same 'script" . Buyer opens case with comment something like "Hi. I know you said it would probably take about xxx weeks to arrive, but I'm opening the case just in case" (READ ebay keeps sending me emails that are making me paranoid). Buyer closes case when item arrives and leaves me positive feedback. They are VERY happy with their order and happy that I gave them the option to choose the less expensive surface mail (airmail is also offered). No problem should exist. However, ebay counts this as a DEFECT, despite the fact that I delivered exactly as promised and exactly as chosen by the buyer and the BUYER closed the case.

I also sell on other venues. ONLY on ebay does this occur because only ebay does their best to make their buyers nervous. And, only ebay would penalize you for a transaction that ends well.

In the 'olden days", the window to initiate a case was 8 weeks, which meant that major countries like UK/Germany/France were not a problem. Only the odd case from Australia, etc. was opened. And I don't think ebay used to send out 'paranoia-inducing' emails in the 'olden days'.

I am still projected to be TRS in the US (I have never had an INR there), but, even there I could be in trouble with a bit of bad luck. I just had a SNAD opened the other day by a buyer who stated in their reasons "Sorry. My mistake. I thought I was buying a sofa, not a slipcover. Please send me return instructions.)" Again, shouldn't be a problem. I have a no questions asked return policy and was happy to accept the return. BUT this 'DEFECT' will stay on my record for a year.

And, does anyone know what will happen to TRS status in Canada? It appears that GLOBAL status will affect ebay.ca ranking, even though I have NEVER had a case of any kind opened against me from a Canadian buyer.

Anyway, has anyone looked into possible legal ways of fighting this defect policy? It is INSANE that a seller should have to worry about being penalized for a no-fault situation that ends amicably. Has anyone had any success by contacting ebay's legal department and, if so, can you provide some advice?

femmefan1946 · ‎08-19-2014

The Third Reich lasted from 1933 to 1945.

The Roman Empire for nearly 1500 years.

Oh. This thread is now also subject to Godwin's Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

mr.elmwood · ‎08-19-2014

I know a few people for whom every argument is "It's Communism". They have no idea what the word means. It is just their last resort argument and then they stick their fingers in their ears "la la la la la la, I can't hear you".

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ca_cunn · ‎08-19-2014

There is no reference to Hitler, there was no mention of Nazism. The context was that systems that believe themselves infallible ultimately fail. Any perceived reference to anything else is that of the respondent, not of the original post.

cumos55 · ‎08-19-2014

If I won the lottery maybe a legal option could perhaps possibly every so likely be sort of possible.

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But if you read what I wrote.

Make the adjustments.... accept eBay's rules as they are.

and carry on just like I have done...

Make adjustments as required

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I do not know how things happen ...

BUT... Each of my adjustments to selling on eBay occurred long before eBay creates a rule...

My adjustment to each update was quick and easy... and very much in place before the update was released by eBay

and finally

If you read the User Agreement for eBay.ca carefully...

eBay limits it liability... and

If eBay wins... Plaintiff pays eBay's full cost to go before a judge.....

rose-dee · ‎08-20-2014

@ca_cunn wrote:
There is no reference to Hitler, there was no mention of Nazism. The context was that systems that believe themselves infallible ultimately fail. Any perceived reference to anything else is that of the respondent, not of the original post.

Sorry, but there was such a reference, by implication, in your earlier post: "Possibly but as I remember Rome felt the same way and so did the Third Reich." Godwin's law rules!!

However, to get back to the OP's original issue, I'd sum up the possibility of a successful lawsuit of any sort as a classic lost cause. It wouldn't even be a David and Goliath fight, as David would have no ammunition at all.

The point is that we, as sellers here, are dealing with a private US corporation that sets its rules and regulations, and we either accept and work with the policies (as onerous and obnoxious as they may seem), or refuse to (digitally) sign the user agreement, and find a better place to sell. This isn't a democracy or a public foundation, nor do we have any say really in what rules are set unless we happen to form a large block of shareholders. Now that might be the only way to truly have a say in how eBay does business, but you're going to need a mountain of cash.

Quite frankly, this isn't much different from the kind of arrangements B&M stores have to deal with when they sign a lease in a shopping mall, for example. The owner owns the building, sets the rules, usually even dictates where and how store operators can put up signs and how much they have to pay for insurance, heat, lighting, maintenance, and on and on. Believe me, in comparison those agreements are far more onerous than the tenuous commercial relationship between eBay and its sellers.

There are reasonable solutions to the OP's issues that don't involve a pointless attempt to sue eBay. As 'cumos' has said, adjust your views about shipping. If surface shipping results in defects that you don't want, find other ways to ship.

Yes, some of your customers might have to pay more, but possibly not all of them, if you use the various strategies that eBay makes available. If I have to set those out here to someone who has been selling for several years, then you've missed the boat and are effectively acting as your own worst enemy. Take a good, hard, analytical look at the root cause of the defects you get and use the tools and features the site does have to your own maximum possible benefit. It can be done, and is a lot more productive than working up scenarios of legal battles against eBay.

There is a legal concept called "mitigation" which means that, even if a commercial case were to meet all the criteria I mentioned in my earlier post, you would still have to show that you had little or no responsibility for any loss, damage or harm that was done to you. If your imaginary case were to get as far as a court, one of the first questions would be: "What did you do, or could you have done, to prevent or lessen your losses?" The second would be: "What did you do to cause the loss to continue or increase?" Take a look at your shipping procedures and you'll have the answers to those questions.

In real life legal situations, any decent lawyer would send you away after asking you those questions him/herself in the first interview. That is why a legal suit on the basis you suggest would be impossible.

dhslk · ‎08-21-2014

Thank you to rose-dee and some others for your thoughtful responses.

rose-dee · ‎08-21-2014

You're very welcome, I hope I was of some help. At least I hope my 20+ years in law can serve to do somebody some good!

By the way, do you know what the biggest issue is for plaintiffs attempting to sue in the civil courts? Over the years I came to realize that the mental and psychological stress (and even sometimes near-breakdown) is the worst problem people grapple with when pursuing a legal claim, even if they have an iron-clad case and the money to see it through. It's incredible what a toll such a process can take on most people.

It can become a monster that consumes people's lives unless they happen to be the type who by nature can sit back calmly and leave all the trouble, risk, worry and details in the hands of the lawyer -- and very few are able to do that. I've seen clients end up after 3, 4, 5 or more years almost completely obsessed with their lawsuit, to the point of identifying their whole existence with the legal case. Their lives are in stasis and their personal and family relationships suffer.

Believe me, I know enough about the process to avoid it wherever and whenever possible, i.e. if any other means are available at all. And I think there are certainly other means available in this instance. I do wish you the best!

mr.elmwood · ‎08-21-2014

Rose, my ex did that with our divorce. she would phone her lawyer, daily, multiple times. She would be on the phone, discussing, for half hours at a time. I had independent confirmation of that. It has been guesstimated that she spent 1/4-1/3 of her proceeds on legal fees.

Her lawyer was a decent enough family lawyer, by all accounts. Then he saw the ATM sitting in front of him and just didn't care anymore. He did exactly as instructed.

She became hyper-obsessed in a very narrow framework. Everything she could have done wrong, she did. Everything she could have done right, she didn't.

It played that my lawyer was better than hers and both lawyers knew it. I kept emotion completely out of it. It was purely business. In the end, I made a business deal that benefitted me. She made a personal deal that hurt her.

I have said for quite a while, keep business and personal separate.

I spent quite a bit of time in the law library at the courthouse in Winnipeg before they closed it to the public. I learned a lot about law. There were two types of people there. First were the ones simply seeking knowledge. The others were the hyper-obsessed who had lost all connection with reality.

There is a big difference between what you can try to do and what is worth trying to do.

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