09-16-2013 09:52 AM
in my messages this morning came this from ebay regarding my account...............& yes I know all about trademark rules so don't even go there! But really, watch your selves who knows you may use the word turquoise & it may have a trademak owned by some one. I believe this year is really my last with this sinking ship!!
After reviewing your eBay account, it appears that you have violated eBay's Trademark Violation - Unauthorized Listing Content policy. As a result, we've taken the following action on your account:
- Listings have been removed. A list of items that were removed can be viewed at the bottom of this message.
- We have credited any associated fees to your account.
Your listing was removed after receiving a report from the rights owner that your listing used their trademark without their permission. We urge you to contact the rights owner directly for more information on why they requested the removal of your listing and whether you can relist the item.
For more information on our VeRO program, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/trademark.html
Please be sure your current and future listings follow these guidelines, keeping in mind that additional violations of this policy could result in the suspension of your account.
We encourage you to contact The Navajo Nation -Navajo Brands Holding, Inc. directly if you have any questions.
You can send an email to:
navajo.ebay@gmail.com
For more information on how eBay protects Intellectual Property, or for additional information if you believe that your listing has been removed as a result of an error or misidentification, please visit the following Help page:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html
For more information on why eBay may remove a listing, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/questions/listing-ended.html
Please be assured that your listings have not been targeted in any way. Though there may be similar items listed on eBay, we review all listings that are reported to us by eBay members or Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program participants.
If you have additional questions, contact our policy experts:
http://ocsnext.ebay.ca/ocs/home
To learn more about rules for sellers, go to:
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/seller-rules-overview.html
Here are the listings that were removed:
321207539957 - TAPESTRY FLASHBACK Indie cotton NAVAJO Bolaro Shawl Collar Blazer Jacket Sz M
We appreciate your cooperation.
Thanks,
eBay
09-16-2013 10:33 AM
Your item was reported & eBay had no choice but to pull your item as they are part of the VeRO program.
It could have been reported by the Rights Holder or a Competitor, one will never know.
This has happened to me over the years & the VeRO program can be very frustrating.
Send the information & pictures to the Rights Holder & ask politely What The Trademark Violation Is as you do not to make the mistake again plus you also want to keep your eBay account in good standing.
The chances of hearing back from them are zero.
Follow the eBay giudelines. eBay encourages you to do this & should you not hear back from the Rights Holder, send another message to eBay that you did not hear back from them. This will keep your account in Good Standing.
09-16-2013 10:44 AM
09-16-2013 10:46 AM
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Make sure you follow the eBay guidelines as mentioned previously.
Keep in mind a layperson, much like ourselves, cannot spot the difference between the Counterfeit Product & the Real Thing at the best of times. I'm sure eBay looks at your selling account & keeps that in mind.
The differences are usually very minor when it comes to clothing, but usually major when it comes to items such as handbags.
Since it has happened to me in the past, I feel your Frustration, but eBay is just doing their job.
09-16-2013 11:05 AM
My only complaint is i wish the Rights Holder would return messages as to what the Trademark Violation is.
This keeps us from unknowingly making the same mistake again.
I can spot the difference the difference between a Vintage Shirt & a Counterfeit immediately just by looking at the label.
While sports jerseys change their manufacturers quite often, counterfeits are easily spotted. The Gretsky, instead of Gretzky, jerseys a few years back comes to mind.
Labels, such as Harley Davidson, are very hard to distinguish as the Counterfeits are almost dead on.
09-16-2013 11:32 AM
Restricted and Prohibited Policy is a very interesting read...
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/items-ov.html
Other rules as well with respect to fakes, counterfeits and more....
There are some things that one should never list on eBay.....
Although I sell books... I am very careful about restricted countries.
Cuba in relation to the US
Certain books about Nazis, and by Nazis... and with listings visible in Germany and several other countries..
And most recently any Native (Aboriginal) artifact ... It can be listed but very carefully worded..... or it just may be a word in a title or a listing... provenance is most important.... or the rights to that item were never released.... by the original native group
The rules are there.... and knowing what they are and how to list... and more importantly what NOT to list ... is very important..
And... Many times it is not eBay rules but government rules... US, Canada, and then knowing the differences between these two countries.... and elsewhere ... and why the rules are there... legalities, treaties and other laws...
Everyone has to be careful....
and ... many times it is not worth listing it....
--------------
More information at
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/embargo.html
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/artifacts.html
09-16-2013 11:40 AM
A most interesting complication relates to baby/newborn clothing...
Calling it a Cozy... without realizing it might be a "trademark"
Always do a search on eBay and look for those unusual names... that just may turn out to be trademarks....
09-16-2013 12:29 PM - edited 09-16-2013 12:34 PM
Yes, we live in a world of branding where it seems everything has proprietary rights attached to it, and everything is trademarked, including many ordinary words in the English language and a whole lot of otherwise generic names that have historical connections (like Navajo).
I do understand your frustration, and I've had the same sort of thing happen to me. My own grievance about the policy is that there is no advance warning given at all, i.e. no opportunity to revise the listing -- it just gets pulled. The problem likely is that eBay has a direct legal obligation to enforce rights violation with all due diligence, etc. As 'bb' says, compliance and finding an alternative way of describing your product is the only solution where VeRO is concerned. EBay will just keep removing listings that violate the policy until it seriously affects your seller status. The best thing to do is look at this as a lightweight warning, and avoid taking further chances.
If it's any consolation, if this were out in the "real" world, using a branded name (even if accidentally) to sell an item might end up attracting the threat of a lawsuit, and those laws have teeth. In that sense at least, we sellers on eBay are protected from direct legal consequences as long as eBay stands between us and the rights owner, the only problem being that eBay then gets to decide what listings to remove, and when.
I don't think we can really regard this as strictly an eBay policy, like some policies that spring spontaneously out of the minds of those CEOs. I imagine eBay had to put the policy in place but because it's obliged to conform to existing laws of commercial trademarking and intellectual property rights if it wants to prevent getting sued by brand owners for permitting infractions.
If eBay imposed no controls at all, you can imagine the free-for-all site this would become (it's already bad enough in some areas) -- everybody would be describing their goods as "Chanel", "Dior", etc. and eBay would promptly get sued out of business.
I know we sellers don't feel this way when a listing is yanked for an apparently nonsensical reason, but I've come to the point where I accept that there are people and companies out there who have appropriated otherwise ordinary, everyday descriptive words. You just happened to run into one of those.
In your case it seems ridiculous -- everyone knows what a "Navajo" design or "Navajo" blanket, etc. is, but apparently that name is not free to be used when describing goods for sale on eBay unless you're the rights owner. I agree that you're unlikely to get a reply from the VeRO owner, but if you have the time you can try. If they're considerate enough to respond, you'll probably just receive a lot of legal documentation and a further (more direct) warning - that is, unless they are willing, and you're in a position to enter into a rights-use agreement. However, I expect they are already selling their own branded products on eBay, hence the reason for the VeRO registration.
In the end, given this situation, I'd just describe the item differently -- maybe "native western" design or something else that's generic, and let the pictures do the rest of the talking.
09-16-2013 12:33 PM
@cumos55 wrote:A most interesting complication relates to baby/newborn clothing...
Calling it a Cozy... without realizing it might be a "trademark"
Always do a search on eBay and look for those unusual names... that just may turn out to be trademarks....
That's an excellent point (I was going to suggest "tribal" to the OP as an alternative adjective, but I seem to recall there's a clothing line called "Tribal". Yes, it's a brand new world!
You can probably also check the VeRO list as well, just to to be safe.
09-16-2013 01:50 PM
I seem to recall a seller having listings pulled for using the term " Onesie " a couple of years back.
As mentioned previously I don't have an issue with eBay pulling the listing, they are just doing their job.
If i was the Rights Holder i wouldn't want people selling my product if it is in fact counterfeit.
I'll mention it again. My only issue is the Rights Holder should return our messages as to what the trademark violation is.
This will hopefully help us determine what is legit & what is counterfeit in our buying practises.
Sometimes it is very tough to tell the difference.
09-16-2013 02:19 PM
09-16-2013 03:43 PM
eBay has had to deal with court cases with large companies such as Louis Vuitton....
and eBay wants ... no more.
The "Onesie" thing came up on eBay.com recently.
If the rule comes from outside eBay.... eBay acts quickly.... ebay does not want to get caught in the middle....
Then there are eBay rules..... sellers do get a warning...... But... if they do not do a correction..... the listing will eventually be removed as we see on another discussion.
Learn how to deal with the realities.... make the adjustment... quickly ... and all will end well...
09-17-2013 10:25 AM
No there was no warning! I know of the warnings that possibly you are talking about I am familiar with those. This particular issue had absolutely no warning during or before just ranked days after it was listed. These others you're meaning acutally go thru a jury process.
09-17-2013 11:19 AM
09-17-2013 12:11 PM
A third part reported yuo to the bot and the bot pulled the listing.
I doubt that it was a bot since vero was involved. It sounds like a right holder contacted ebay and they pulled the listing...it wasn't a nameless entity. As far as a competitor getting a 'counterfeit' listing pulled...I would be surprised if that happens very often. If a rights holder tells ebay that the item isn't authentic, ebay always pulls the listing. But if an ebayer like you or I reported the same thing, ebay has no way of knowing if we are right or wrong or being spiteful. I am sure that it happens but I would be surprised it it happens a lot. But then, ebay often surprises me.
From the OP Your listing was removed after receiving a report from the rights owner that your listing used their trademark without their permission. We urge you to contact the rights owner directly for more information on why they requested the removal of your listing and whether you can relist the item.
09-17-2013 12:51 PM
@pjcdn2005 wrote:A third part reported yuo to the bot and the bot pulled the listing.
I doubt that it was a bot since vero was involved. It sounds like a right holder contacted ebay and they pulled the listing...it wasn't a nameless entity.
I think that's the probable explanation. I imagine rights holders who are registered in the VeRO programme regularly do searches on their brand names on eBay to see who is piggy-backing on their reputation.
In this case, the OP obviously made an innocent mistake in trying to describe an item, and was not attempting to pass off a counterfeit item. We can't always know what descriptive word someone in the world has branded for themselves (like the "Onesies"), and really, in this case I have to admit that I wouldn't have thought to check the VeRO programme for "Navajo", as it's a fairly generic and well-understood descriptive adjective. Unlike, say, "Nevada", which is a place and a clothing line, people do describe certain designs as "Navajo" style, etc. It's an easy mistake to make in a listing.
Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, commercial trademark and proprietary laws give eBay no choice but to instantly pull such listings if the rights owner reports it as a violation.
09-17-2013 01:20 PM
I would be surprised if that happens very often.
Not trying to correct you pj.
Can only speak for my category of course, but it does happen as someone will contact the Rights Holder directly & not report the violation through eBay.
How often it happens i cannot answer that honestly.
Learned that through my friendly competitors out east over the years.
We often exchange pictures of items offline if we are unsure, but as mentioned previously, it is very tough to tell the difference sometimes.
I have learned to educate myself pretty well now, but found it is best to pass on Designer Items unless they come directly from the manufacturer.
Had a chance to buy twenty stitched Chanel Shirts for twenty dollars last week. I passed on them.
Still don't understand how a National Discount Chain can sell all those Counterfeit Basketball & Soccer Jerseys.
The differences are glaringly obvious & yet they seem to sell a ton of them for ten dollars each.
09-17-2013 03:23 PM
Not trying to correct you pj.
Can only speak for my category of course, but it does happen as someone will contact the Rights Holder directly & not report the violation through eBay.
I wasn't referring to and never said that people did not contact the rights holder. I didn't even know that was what you were suggesting. But if someone contacted the rights holder directly, the rights holder would have to contact ebay who would take down the listing. In that case it wouldn't be a 'bot' that took the listing down as was suggested in the post I quoted......someone at ebay would do it.
My point was that when a listing is taken down on ebay it is more likely that it was taken down because of a vero-rights holder complaint to ebay rather than a competitor complaining directly to ebay or through the report an item problem.
You said...
Your item was reported & eBay had no choice but to pull your item as they are part of the VeRO program.
It could have been reported by the Rights Holder or a Competitor, one will never know.
If that was referring to a competitor contacting a rights holder and then the rights holder contacting ebay, then I misunderstood. I took the statements as saying that if either a competitor or the rights holder had contacted ebay directly ebay would then then have taken the listing down. That's possible, but as I said, I don't think ebay often takes a listing down just because 'someone' said the item was not authentic but they will do so if vero says that.
09-17-2013 03:24 PM
everyone knows what a "Navajo" design or "Navajo" blanket, etc. is, but apparently that name is not free to be used when describing goods for sale
What happens when you use lower case? "navajo" instead of "Navajo" ? Or if you use Navaho? Probably not worth the risk..
Did the listings pull up the "Native American" warning I see from time to time when listing postcards of First Nations people?
A few years ago, Zellers was selling "Jones New York" garments that were so poorly made that the company buyer had to be on the take to have contracted for the counterfeits. And JNY are not particularly expensive, the real blouses sell -- at the Bay, Zellers parent company- for abouR $100, dresses about $150.
09-17-2013 08:56 PM
Don't disagree with you pj, that is why i put the smiley at the end of the first sentence.
I would agree a bot would probably not have the ability to take down the listing.
Again I agree, a disgruntled competitor would have to prove the item is indeed counterfeit if it is reported.
I don't think eBay would just take someones word for it.
It could have been reported by the Rights Holder or a Competitor.
My fault, maybe i should have been a little more clear & added a few more words to that statement.
How about a competitor also reporting it to the Rights Holder.
That makes a little more sense.