Is eBay Financing Itself Thru Seller Fees? Bill Month 1, Fee Credit Month 2=30 Days Interest Free $

[thebluetortoise]

I've been an eBay seller for a couple of years now, and it took me a while to figure out that eBay was massively over billing me. So I started checking my eBay invoices in detail in March 2016. Issues were corrected in March and April, and May to September bills were actually correct. (I shouldn't get excited about that, because that should be the norm.) Now I'm again finding that my eBay invoices are incorrect. In fact, I've done an exhaustive review of my account, and am not impressed by how things are going. It seems to me that eBay uses all the tricks in the book to make it difficult for a seller to verify an invoice, including, for example, promo time frames don't match the billing time frame, and such tricks as having a rolling 30-day renewal on Good Until Cancelled listings so you can't trace anything back. It is near impossible to get to the bottom of the invoices. Believe me, I have an extensive spreadsheet to track my listings, and even then that's not good enough.

A recent eBay trick was to offer 50,000 Good Until Cancelled (GUC) listings, then, when that was over, offer 50 free monthly listing. Ah, but the fine print said that any GUC listings counted towards that 50. WTH? Unfortunately I did make some listings at that time, posted them as GUC, and couldn't tell which were free and which were charged because of the rolling 30-day window, until I did my exhaustive review of my bills. That was a dirty trick.

Now (I'm getting to my subject point), I find that eBay has changed how it bills. Before, the credit for a free listing occurred in the same month as the original charge. Now I'm finding that the credit is provided in the following month. WTH??!? What this does: 1) Allow eBay to finance their business by collecting money from sellers one month and giving credit the following month, thereby providing them with a month's financing on our backs, 2) makes it very difficult for a seller to match the fee and the waived credit. Especially if eBay requires you to raise any billing issues before bill payment at the end of the month, then sellers would be in a real tough spot trying to figure out if their bill is correct or not, because we have to wait until the next month's bill.

All in all, I do my best to only post when posting is free. But eBay is now playing so many games that I am finding it difficult to "follow the rules" and comply, in order to keep my listings free.

And has anyone noticed that eBay is producing half-assed bills? The listing fee is not indicated, just the credit for the free listing fee. Well, that produces a bill that would require eBay to pay ME. So in actuality, if I took the bills at face value, as produced, I am in a position to pursue eBay for unpaid fee refunds!

All in all eBay is doing a shabby job of billing. I am beginning to lose faith in how eBay operates. They seem to have done a good programming job of the whole item listing process, but whoever is in charge of billing should be fired. And now, of course, eBay is pushing back on my attempts to correct their invoices. I just want them to issue transparent, accurate invoices. I should not have to spend 4+ hours every bill trying to cut through the **bleep** and get to the bottom of their billing discrepancies.

Sadly, despite my comprehensive spreadsheet, I will have to add additional detail such as expected fee and posting date, which I didn't think I would need. Certainly item numbers don't help, since they change with every renewal.

Oh, and speaking of expected fee, I was actually told by a CSR the other day that I couldn't rely on the screen that says "The charge will be $0.30. Do you want to proceed?". Can you believe that? Clearly she does not understand contract law - which simply states there has to be an offer and acceptance. eBay offers the rate for the service, and I accept. That is a contract. Without the offer spelled out, there is no contract.

Finding it very hard to continue with eBay. Don't trust them as far as I can throw them, as the saying goes.

Has anyone else had similar experiences?

[thebluetortoise]

Also, does anyone know of a forum outside of eBay where sellers connect? Frankly, eBay hosting a service where users air their beefs is a bit fishy. They can edit anything out, erase posts, monitor posts, etc. which is how companies try to contain negative experiences. Certainly, only registered users can read these posts, which means the rest of the world is blissfully ignorant of any of these problems (much to the delight of eBay). Brilliant move by any company to have a contained forum or community - it looks like a service offering, but is really for their own benefit.

Note: Interesting that eBay automatically bleeped a word I used. I don't know what word it was, but it couldn't have been that bad because I didn't think at any point I was swearing. Case in point (although I do get that no one wants a forum to devolve.)

[i.am.vivian]

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@thebluetortoise wrote:

Also, does anyone know of a forum outside of eBay where sellers connect? Frankly, eBay hosting a service where users air their beefs is a bit fishy. They can edit anything out, erase posts, monitor posts, etc. which is how companies try to contain negative experiences. Certainly, only registered users can read these posts, which means the rest of the world is blissfully ignorant of any of these problems (much to the delight of eBay). Brilliant move by any company to have a contained forum or community - it looks like a service offering, but is really for their own benefit.

Note: Interesting that eBay automatically bleeped a word I used. I don't know what word it was, but it couldn't have been that bad because I didn't think at any point I was swearing. Case in point (although I do get that no one wants a forum to devolve.)

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Board Basics:

These boards are actually pretty "free" as far as gripes and complaints goes.  Most of it is common sense, like you wouldn't come here and say what a great place some other auction site is.  You can't say BuyerXYZ is a total scammer, or that SellerXYZ sells counterfeit fakes.  You can't post verbatim messages from your buyers, but you can rephrase the gist of what they said.  You can't post an item # and say what a total fake it is.   And as you have found out, you can't use swear words.   🙂 

Here are the policies.  They seem really heavy at first, but a lot of it is things no one would do anyway, like impersonating an eBay rep.  Who in their right mind would try that?

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/member-created-content-ov.html#what

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/everyone-boards.html#what

I would also mention that the whole world can read these messages but you have to be signed in as a user to post.  If the world cared at all, there would be no need to remain ignorant.  It is a sort of service offering but not for eBay's benefit as it is for users to help each other out.  Like when you are not credited for your fees, where do you go?  Well, to Seller Central, of course! 

The boards offer members a place to chat about eBay issues, good and bad.  Just keep the language super clean.  The boards are for everyone, young and old, so the whole place must never end up sounding like a frat party. 

[momcqueen]

Q. Is eBay Financing Itself Thru Seller Fees? 

A. Yes. Insertion Fees, Final Value Fees, Listing Upgrade fees et cetera. Buyers pay nothing to use the site. The money comes from sellers when items sell. Otherwise there would be no ebay. 

[ypdc_dennis]

Impressive wall of text.

You are not using ebay's selling forms are you?

I do and my "free" listings are all credited at the time they are listed.

[thebluetortoise]

Not sure what you mean by "eBay selling forms". I use the format eBay provides for posting items under the "Sell" button at the top of the screen. Is that what you mean? If not, please let me know where I would find eBay selling forms. Not only would I appreciate greater billing timeliness and accuracy, I could sure use a faster way to get things posted. My items are 99.9% 1-offs, and it takes me about 20 minutes to post an item, which means it's practically a full-time job just to list a few hundred items. Any help is greatly appreciated!! Thanks very much!

[thebluetortoise]

That's not my point. Of course eBay is financed through fees. My point is that they can avoid bank financing if they charge me fees for free postings one month and give me the credit for the free postings the next month because they got the use of my money for 30 days. That's called getting your customers to finance (as in "provide a loan to") your business.

For example, I post 1000 free listings. eBay charges me $300 in October. The actually take that money from my PayPal account. In November, they credit me $300. They just used my $300 to finance their business, when I shouldn't have paid anything at all, since $300 - $300 is $0. And imagine multiplying that by countless other eBay sellers. That's quite some free financing. Although, in the end, it has the same effect to me, it is not the same thing. It is this type of billing that I have been experiencing since September 16, 2016. And that is not a proper practice. And, for me, it boils down to it being a lot more difficult to follow my eBay bills. It's starting to be a huge tasks to validate eBay bills - because I know them to be incorrect many months.

In another thread I posted yesterday, someone answered, was I referring to eBay's failure to credit free postings on November bills. Ah, so eBay made a mistake, one that impacted many sellers. Have I seen an apology in my inbox? Have I received a credit? No. Does eBay just fix billing issues when a seller catches the error? If so, that's not very nice. I work very hard to make sure I post when postings are free. And invariably my invoices are a disaster. Who wants to carry on a business relationship with a company such as that? It is very disappointing. We need to be able to have faith that eBay is treating its customers fairly and are billing accurately. If eBay was a store down the street, I'd be done right about now. I would stop giving my business to a supplier that requires diligent, time-consuming, stringent oversight so I can ensure they're processing my activities accurately.

[thebluetortoise]

Thanks very much for your diligent response. I appreciate the clarifications, and your wit, which I caught in your response.

[momcqueen]

Like all new sellers, I examined my invoices as you do now. At some point, I made a decision that whatever $1.57 per month they may have overcharged me was not worth the time or aggravation to correct. I don't worry about it now. Anymore than I would when I get home from grocery shopping to see my bag of pears scanned for $1.57 more than the price displayed. Should it have happened? No. But it does. 

That's not to diminish your point. Yours is valid. I'm the first one to admit that I don't pick my battles very well and tend to treat each one as if it were a fight to the death but, in my case, the invoice scrutiny was not worth it. Especially since 85 per cent of the time I was the one misreading it. 

By all means, if you lose faith in your business partner, you are free to tell them that. And start looking to see what else is out there. We're not allowed to name those names here but there are other marketplaces on the scene. 

How is did you get charged $300 for free listings? You need to examine the PROMOS. Those I do recommend reading backwards and forwards. eBay doesn't issue them to the benefit of sellers, they are to drive business to a certain sector that eBay feels is lagging. 

[ypdc_dennis]

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@thebluetortoise wrote:

Not sure what you mean by "eBay selling forms". I use the format eBay provides for posting items under the "Sell" button at the top of the screen. Is that what you mean? If not, please let me know where I would find eBay selling forms. Not only would I appreciate greater billing timeliness and accuracy, I could sure use a faster way to get things posted. My items are 99.9% 1-offs, and it takes me about 20 minutes to post an item, ...

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Then if you are using the eBay form (as I do) it should tell you, right before you post the listing, exactly what listing fee you will be charged.

If it does not show 0.00 then you've added an extra or misread the "free" promo details (or you are using a listing form that is not tied to eBay's financials and have to wait for an offsetting credit).

Some of the Extras:

Use of 1- or 3-day listing durations.

Same listing in 2 categories

Bold title

Subtitle (unless you list on cafr.ebay.ca where it is still free)

and more

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/fees.html#optional

-..-

As for your invoice info:

Do not treat the online "PROMOTIONAL SAVINGS" section savings column as anything other than an eBay advertising tool showing how much you "saved" by using a promo.

Column H on the CSV "Promotional Savings" is also the same thing -- nothing to do with your actual charge (just what you could have paid).

-..-

[reallynicestamps]

eBay charges me $300 in October. The actually take that money from my PayPal account. In November, they credit me $300. They just used my $300 to finance their business,

What date did the charge show up on your eBay invoice?

What date did the charge come off your PP account?

What date was the credit on your eBay invoice?

What date was did the credit reappear on your PP account?

Because there is a huge difference between the billing date and the payment date.

My Telus bill arrives about mid-month, but is not due until 20 days later. Same with most of my bills.

If your item is billed October first, immediately is charged to your PP account, then credited November first and not returned until November 30th, you have a valid problem.

But if you are billed October first, charged October 31, credited November first and the money returned November first, there really is very little problem at all.

We see this a lot with sellers who get the billing email (or look at their running totals) and decide they are being charged when they are really being billed.

Full disclosure: I didn't read the Wall Of Text. Too Phil Spector.

[pjcdn2005]

I haven't noticed any dirty tricks that eBay is using on my invoices perhaps you are just not clear on some things.   Each charge is listed in your account, line by line.  If you want to see charges  received since your last invoice go to my eBay, account, seller account and just below current balance, click on all account activity.  Does that not show you each charge on your account?  

You get the same information for previous months on the right side of that page. 

Ive never been charged for any promo let alone been charged one month and then credited in another month so perhaps there is another explanation for you have noticed.

Ypu mentioned that you didn't receive a credit from the latest invoice problem eBay had.  The problem was that  trs discounts were not given,  on this account you don't have trs so this wouldn't have affected you. 

It's not a great idea to use gtc listings for promotions since it will cost you money or use up your next months free listings.  I know that you mentioned in another thread that you thought it was misleading to offer gtc as a free promotion but it is spelled out in the information for the offer that subsequent renewals are not included in the promotion. 

[zee-chan]

See another comment by the OP in a different thread attached below or click link.

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Promotion-That-Includes-Good-Til-Cancelled/m-p/357995#M72...

My guess is, because the OP used GTC but didn't know he had to cancel before day 30, he got charged fees when the listings got relisted. eBay probably agreed to do a courtesy credit the first time it happened hence he got credited the next month, but since he still didn't end his GTCs he got charged in fees again, and I doubt eBay would do another courtesy credit hence the OP thinks eBay still owed him $300 credit when in fact he does owe $300 in GTC fees now. From the other comment though looks like he realized it now and went to end the GTCs. 

Mystery solved? 

[momcqueen]

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@zee-chan wrote:

See another comment by the OP in a different thread attached below or click link.

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Promotion-That-Includes-Good-Til-Cancelled/m-p/357995#M72...

My guess is, because the OP used GTC but didn't know he had to cancel before day 30, he got charged fees when the listings got relisted. eBay probably agreed to do a courtesy credit the first time it happened hence he got credited the next month, but since he still didn't end his GTCs he got charged in fees again, and I doubt eBay would do another courtesy credit hence the OP thinks eBay still owed him $300. From the other comment though looks like he realized it now and went to end the GTCs. 

Mystery solved? 

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Been there. For me, I recall, it was a Promotion where the seller was able to add the BIN option at no charge to free auctions where the upgrade to BIN was no longer free on auction relist. Ca-ching. This would have been within my first six months of selling. Ouch. 

It only takes once to get burnt and then we have all learned to read the terms of those Promotions a lot LOT lot more closely before clicking Accept. This was my point earlier. Invoices I've not found to be incorrect in any meaningful way. The Promotions, however, bear very close examination. 

[thebluetortoise]

Hi all,

Thanks, yes, getting burned. Talked to eBay support today to see if a bunch of them would say the same thing or if they're just making it up as they go along. No luck, they're all saying the same thing about GTC - that it lasts a max of 30 days and provides only an administrative (ie effort) benefit thereafter because 30-day renewals are not free. I will have to cancel all of my GTC postings except my 50 free monthly postings. Sad to do, but I can't afford to be nickel and dimed into the red.

[thebluetortoise]

Thanks very much for this response. You're right, I am weighing the "Promotional Savings" into the mix. Why? Because when I download the detailed invoice, the Promotional Savings are detailed by item. Now why would eBay do that but not detail the original fee too? Either eBay should have both detailed or have neither detailed, and, like you said, leave it as a note as is currently done on the summary invoice.

So what you're saying is that only the itemized INSERTION FEES (and FVF fees too, of course) on the detailed invoice are real. All others were waived. Not intuitive. I was expecting to have to match them up to see what cancels out. No wonder I think eBay is using our money for a month as a loan to their business!

I will have to see if I can work with this simplified approach (it would certainly save me a lot of grief). I still have to wrap my head around being able to tell on which items fees were actually charged, and which were waived, which I should be able to do with this info now.

Thanks again!

[thebluetortoise]

Thanks very much. Great advice. I also don't tend to nit pick - only when it (seems to) get evident that there's something really wrong. A couple of bucks this way or that, no problem.

I will definitely read the promos backwards and forwards in the future!

Thanks again!