eBay

threebears63too · ‎08-12-2013

Hi all,

Well, it finally happened, I got my first neg today. This id I only have just over 130 fb, my other id I have over 2800, so I guess it was about time someone finally got mad at me for providing stellar service, great packaging, reasonable prices, friendly communication, and quick shipping eh?

New user, lives in the U.S., $3.49 item, didn't like the shipping cost. There was no contact from buyer, just a neg and "the shipping cost was almost twice the price of the magazine" comment. I have just sent this note to her, and will wait and see if I hear back before I reply to feedback.

Hello -----,

I just wanted to let you know that I have received your feedback and was disappointed to hear that you are unhappy with your purchase.

I would like to point out that the magazine was shipped to you from Ontario, Canada and weighed over 200 grams. The cost for shipping, including tax was $6.20, the price charged for shipping was $5.95, as stated in the auction listing.

I see by your feedback and registration date that you are fairly new to ebay, so I understand that you may be unaware that negative feedback is usually reserved for problematic, fraudulent, dishonest or difficult transactions. It is not usually used for a transaction that is completed promptly, and includes only the cost of the item and shipping as stated up front in the listing.

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the cost and if you would like to return the magazine I would be happy to refund your entire purchase price including the cost of shipping.

I look forward to hearing from you. Heather

I probably won't hear back but who knows? I thought ebay was going to make buyers contact sellers before leaving negs or opening disputes etc.

Well, I am sure this won't help my already completely dismal sales. Should buyers be able to leave negative feedback for a transaction that is problem free? Why place the bid if you don't like the shipping cost?

**SIGH!**

Heather

surplusdealdude · ‎08-12-2013

I think you're missing the point.

The transaction wasn't problem-free from the buyer's point iof view, that's why they left the neg. They're telling you your shipping is too high and that's likely contributing to your low sales.

If you live in or near Toronto, there is a service that will courier your parcels to the US so you can use the much-cheaper USPS. It's fairly reasonable and I'd suggest you look into it.

It's called Chit-chat's express.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. Carl Sagan

captivatemedia · ‎08-12-2013

I don't think any point was missed. The chit chat service is not available to everyone (Including me) so Canada post remains the cheapest option available.

This is one of my biggest gripes on Ebay is that you can state your prices up front, and the prices are quite reasonable considering costs, yet people still ding you with negatives or low DSRs because they -assume- that your costs are lower than they actually are.

The customers, especially overseas, simply don't understand the postal system and their prices. This customer should have simply bought the item from a US seller. Or, if there wasn't one available, he had the choice to buy internationally and pay a little extra for shipping.

That's my .02 anyway

inuk_the_polar_bear · ‎08-12-2013

Shipping was an additional fee. That is a problem for the buyer. They did not derive a benefit from the much higher than America media cost they are used to paying. That was a problem. FB is the buyer's "opinion".

Sending such a letter is not a good idea. Shows that you are making business personal. Now you are engaging in a negative based conversation. Professional sellers never do that.

More and more I am making my USA shipping "free" as that is their accepted model. Does not matter what your cost is. Does not matter that you stated it up front.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-12-2013

This is really good example of the way a buyer's mind works.

So much better to list the item for $7 with $3 shipping.

Even so: Call EBay. (If you have and hour to spare that is.)

They are much more lenient with removing NFB than they once were and this just might qualify.

The following is from the Fall update .............

"""The feedback and low ratings are unrelated to your performance or inconsistent with the information contained in the specific fields for that data provided by eBay in the listing form. For example, you chose "used" as the item condition and the buyer left negative feedback and a low rating for item description because the item was used.""""

"""The feedback and low ratings are unrelated to your performance or inconsistent with the information contained in the specific fields for that data provided by eBay in the listing form. For example, you chose ""$5.95 for the cost of shipping" and the buyer left negative feedback and a low rating for item description because the item " shipping cost was $5.95.""""

You never know.............. the way the buyer worded the FB might just work for you this time.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-12-2013

@surplusdealdude wrote:

If you live in or near Toronto, there is a service that will courier your parcels to the US so you can use the much-cheaper USPS. It's fairly reasonable and I'd suggest you look into it.

It's called Chit-chat's express.

Chit-Chat.......... Something I've wondered about your service.

Do Canadian sellers list their location/address as in the States when they use your service even though they are Canadian sellers?

73rhc · ‎08-12-2013

Hi Heather,

I'm definatly on your side on this one. No matter what other posters think, the buyer has the responsibility to read the listing! And by bidding, he or she is accepting the conditions of the contract they are agreeing to. The buyer didn't read your listing, so I doubt that he or she will read your letter. Try and resolve this with eBay, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Buyer is king and seller invisible. My two cents!

femmefan1946 · ‎08-12-2013

I agree that the neg was undeserved and also that you should contact eBay about having it removed, since the shipping fee was stated upfront before the buyer bid.

However.

There have been some reports that bidders using mobiles don't see all the information that the seller uploaded.

And.

Buyers emotionally detest paying more for shipping than for the item. They actually hate paying any shipping, for that matter.

And

That neg is less of a problem than the low DSRs that she probably also left.

So.

How do you prevent this happening again, and can you use this nasty experience to improve your sales.

You have been given one useful suggestion. \

If you switch to Free Shipping within Canada, you automatically get 5 Stars for Shipping Cost. Also your Shipping FVF is calculated on the basis of your domestic shipping cost. so you can save some pennies there,

Free Shipping of course means that you are putting the (domestic) shipping cost into your asking price.

Which is cheapest:

$3 item with $7 shipping

$7 item with $3 shipping

$10 item with Free Shipping?

Which is going to be most popular?

Note that since your $10 magazine already includes some of your postage costs, you can then use Flat Rate shipping that is lower than you require at the moment.

For example:

You offer an item that will require $3 domestic letter mail shipping. You want to get $7 for it. Your Canadian buyer will pay $10 with “free” shipping.

To send the same item to the USA will cost $5. You can set the shipping fee as a Flat Rate of $2. Your US seller will pay $10+$2 S&H

To send the same item to the UK will cost you $15. You can set the International shipping at a Flat Rate of $12. Your International buyer will pay $10 + $12 shipping.

Now personally, when I use Free Shipping, which isn’t that often, I will set the US shipping rate at $0.oo/Free, because most of my buyers are in the USA and the money “lost” is made up in more sales. Well, in my opinion anyway.

I understand that Free Shipping gives us a tiny boost in Best Match searches. We lose out when the customer searches on “Lowest Price”, but gain when he is smart enough to search “Lowest Price plus Shipping”.

For your consideration.

rose-dee · ‎08-12-2013

Yes, I feel for you, threebears, but *i'm-still-here has a good point - buyer perception is crucial. I agree it's worth trying to get eBay to remove the negative, especially since this was a new buyer.

The message you sent to the buyer might have been worthwhile if you'd been dealing with an experienced eBayer, but then that sort of buyer likely wouldn't have left a neg in this case. I disagree that sending the message was unprofessional though -- a brand new buyer likely has no idea his/her purchase was a contract. They will learn to read listing descriptions next time, but it won't help you now. No wonder many sellers (including me, I'm sorry to say) block buyers with "0" FB.

The post-agreement remorse over shipping cost is one of my pet peeves: eBay shouldn't allow buyers to retaliate after the fact through DSRs or neg FB once a contract of purchase has been agreed to. In fact, IMO, an opinion on "Shipping Cost" shouldn't even be included in DSR. There are other ways eBay could track and display sellers' shipping cost performance.

Having said that, I recognize that the days seem to be gone when: (a) buyers actually read listing descriptions; and (b) buyers expected to pay reasonable shipping costs. EBay (and other internet sites) have created expectations of free, or almost-free shipping.

I've always discounted my flat rate shipping for all my items, but I've had to shift my thinking and find ways to offer free shipping. I think it's the inevitable progression of things, which means smaller margins for sellers. Rolling all of the shipping cost into the item price isn't the answer IMO for Cdn sellers, because that does nothing to compete with U.S. prices.

Leaner, meaner eBay...

threebears63too · ‎08-12-2013

Hi all,

Thanks everyone for your comments, they are all appreciated.

To surplus: thanks for the idea, I have heard of Chit Chat unfortunately I am in a small town a couple hours north of Toronto and it is just not an option for me, but thank-you.

I used to be able to ship for less until ebay decided that everything to the U.S. has to go light/small packet, expresspost etc to have proof of shipment. It is not possible to hide the shipping costs in low priced items, so I'd rather just show it up front.

It may just be me, but when I am shopping on ebay I look at the price of the item, add the shipping cost to it that is shown and then I decide if the item is worth it to me, if it is I bid or buy and if not, I move on. Isn't that option available to everyone, if you aren't happy with the price, buy it from someone else?

To inuk: thanks for your comments. In regard to sending the buyer a note, I wanted to give her the option to return the item and get a full refund. I was not making it personal. I don't think I slipped any name calling in there (did I?):smileyvery-happy: I am not even taking your comments personally, I don't know you, you don't know me, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I am okay with that. Well, maybe the comment about being professional might have left a little pinprick but I'm sure I'll heal. (a gentle FYI I have over 30 years in sales including retail management, self-employment and currently somewhere around 6000 on-line transactions, now you do know a little something about me, tuck it away for future reference, there will be a quiz!)

The statement regarding the fact that the item was shipped from Ontario Canada and the cost was just to remind the buyer that the item wasn't coming from the U.S. I do realize that many U.S. buyers think that their country actually encompasses the entire globe and that the shipping price should be about a dollar, that is unfortunate for sellers outside the U.S.

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that when a transaction goes the way it is supposed to (in that the buyer purchased the item, paid for the item, the item was well and properly packaged, shipped within 24 hours and clearly arrived safely) it is usually cause for positive feedback and 5 star DSR's across the board.

Honestly, I believe in the saying that ignorance can be cured but stupidity is forever, so I did include a little comment regarding the use of negative feedback. It wasn't intended to offend but to educate, because we all know what is going to happen to a new buyer if they start throwing negs around like they grow on trees, for every little thing, pretty soon they will be on the boards complaining about the fact that they want to buy items but are not able to bid because they have been blocked, and why has that happened? She's definitely going on my BBL, so she's off to a good start.

I do realize that an unfortunate part of doing business on-line is that often your good intentions and the subtleties of language can be lost in text, so no matter how gently you intend information to be given it may not be received in the same way, but such is life on-line. (I see it on the discussion boards often enough).

I am going to contact ebay and request removal, we shall see.

Thanks everyone! (Inuk I hope you know I was just having some fun with you!)

Cheers, Heather

femmefan1946 · ‎08-12-2013

I used to be able to ship for less until ebay decided that everything to the U.S. has to go light/small packet, expresspost etc to have proof of shipment.

This seems to be a common misconception. Actually two.

Neither Light nor Small Packet include any sort of tracking and never did, although Small Packet used to include $100 insurance. Not any more, but remember that insurance.

More importantly, eBay does not require proof of shipment and does not even accept proof of shipment in a Dispute.

And Dispute is the operative word.

If a problem comes to an eBay/PP Not Received Dispute, the seller must provide acceptable electronic proof of delivery.

Which is expensive.

So off I go on another longwinded explanation.

It's called self-insurance.

The idea is that you add a few cents (less than a dime) to every shipping charge or to your asking price against the very occasional loss or damage claim.

And all those dimes go into your virtual Cookie Jar to pay the occasional refund.

Then if a claim arrives, whether you think it is justified or not, you refund the buyer. He is happy, and may even have been right about the problem. There is no Paypal dispute. You just cut that off at the knees. There is no note on your seller record.

The amount of the premium would depend on your category. I sell books and patterns and philatelic items and postcards, all categories with amazingly honest buyers who actually read and ask questions before buying (especially the seamstresses.) But I would be charging a lot more Cookie Jar Insurance if I were selling sportscards or dolls or horse tack.

paisley_daze · ‎08-12-2013

Heather, I'm sorry that you are encountering some negative attitudes here and rude one-upmanship.

I agree with your opinion and see nothing wrong or unprofessional about your letter. A little education is in order here. Might save some other seller a headache in the future if they have to deal with this buyer. So, it's good for the community.

Let us know how you make out when you call Ebay. I'm sure a lot of us will be in the same situation and I, for one, would like to know the outcome.

Good luck and happy sales.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-12-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:
Call EBay (there is a good chance they'll remove this FB.)

"""The feedback and low ratings are unrelated to your performance or inconsistent with the information contained in the specific fields for that data provided by eBay in the listing form. For example, you chose ""$5.95 for the cost of shipping" and the buyer left negative feedback and a low rating for item description because the item " shipping cost was $5.95.""""

You never know.............. the way the buyer worded the FB might just work for you this time.

So........ The FB removal worked out then?

It looks like the neg is gone.

rose-dee · ‎08-12-2013

I find it a bit embarrassing for all of us when people who consider themselves professional sellers, and despite decades of apparent experience, can't remain professional and courteous on these boards.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-12-2013

Are you referring to me rose-dee?

If so........ what comment are you're referring to?

I made no such comment.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-12-2013

I'm not rose-dee but I saw the comment that she was referring to and it had nothing to do with you.

rose-dee · ‎08-12-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:
Are you referring to me rose-dee?

If so........ what comment are you're referring to?

I made no such comment.

No, no, no. It wasn't you, I apologize that you thought so.

It would be unfair of me to name the seller, but those of us who saw the comment were probably shaking our heads in dismay at the unnecessary sarcasm. Big or small, we're all in the same boat here, aren't we???

i*m-still-here · ‎08-12-2013

Spoiler

@rose-dee wrote:
@i*m-still-here wrote:
Are you referring to me rose-dee?

If so........ what comment are you're referring to?

I made no such comment.
No, no, no. It wasn't you, I apologize that you thought so.

It would be unfair of me to name the seller, but those of us who saw the comment were probably shaking our heads in dismay at the unnecessary sarcasm. Big or small, we're all in the same boat here, aren't we???

I did see it, but I thought nothing of it so I thought you must have been referring to one of my posts.

I thought nothing of it because that spirit of one-upmanship permeates this board............... doesnt it?

Big or small, we're all in the same boat here, aren't we???

Are you kidding me?????

rose-dee · ‎08-12-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:
Spoiler

Big or small, we're all in the same boat here, aren't we???

Are you kidding me?????

Well, by "big" I really wasn't referring to "Target"-like sellers or those mega-sellers of dimestore whatnots from you-know-where.

I was thinking of the Canadian sellers who mostly come to these boards, sometimes to learn, pick up tips, find support, or just commiserate; after all, I would think most of us work more or less alone, in far-flung places.

This is the only place we can find others who have any concept of what it means to sell on eBay. Perhaps you could explain the last line in your post, as I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why you would say that. (And what's the "spoiler" line above it all about????)