Oil Biz Diverts Cash from Alberta

[art-in-the-making]

In an amazing exhibition of monopolies controlling markets, Big Oil has managed to leave Alberta out in the cold while continuing its own endless parade of spiraling profits.

Despite a recovering U.S. economy, strong demand and a steady price for gas at the pump, Alberta is staring at a $6 billion shortfall in oil revenue, due to decreased prices and demand for Alberta bitumen in particular.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/01/24/alison-redford-tv-address-alberta-budget-oil-shortfall_n_254...

So, it turns out Alberta's wealth is not only being squandered on useless conservative ideological adventures such as gratuitously paying off municipal debt, cutting taxes to the bone and lavish subsidies to the oil business... it seems the source of Alberta's wealth is actually at risk due not to "radical" environmentalists, but to the cut throat tactics of the very oil industry that has gorged itself so grandly on Alberta's corporate charity system over the years.

This, combined with increased supplies generated by fracking for oil in both the U.S. and to some extent in Saskatchewan, has caused prices and demand for Alberta bitumen to slacken dramatically.

We need an immediate return of a strong publicly owned Canadian player in the oil business - that would be a global leader in sound environmental practices in production, refining and retailing. This corporation's mandate would be to earn a profit while defending Canada's interests.  

 
Also immediate addition of new private domestic refineries and gas retailers to ensure the existence of a healthy competitive marketplace. 

[pjcdn2005]

No there has been a certain amount of effort of course. Just ask thousands of Canadians who have worked seismic across untold miles of frozen tundra for minimum wage.

It takes one kind of an effort to tap into riches laying under the ground, using mostly existing technology and often underpaid labour -

Minimum wage....underpaid....wow

Please tell me where you received your information art. Those who work in the oil fields / oil service industry are paid very good wages. They are definitely not taken advantage of.

[pjcdn2005]

I think the 'have' and 'have not' concept is draconian. Each Province gives their share of many things to Canada as a whole. For those Provinces with money to feel superior those who do not have the same is one of the factors in the mentality of division within Canada. Then when people use it to 'look down' on another Province, especially for their agenda, it's a childish school yard attitude like some rich kid making jokes about some other kid who is from a family with less money.

I don't know who originally defined the term have and have not provinces (media?) but it has nothing to do with people in one province looking down at another province. It's just a term relating to the transfer payments.Your imagination is working overtime.

"In Canada, the provinces are loosely divided into "have" and "have not." "Have not" provinces do not generate enough money domestically to cover their federally-mandated programmes (i.e. healthcare, welfare, pensions). "Have" provinces are the ones that do generate enough money to pay for their provincial programmes. Alberta and Ontario are the have provinces, Quebec is the benchmark of standards that the provinces have to meet, and all the others are "have not"."

"The Territories don't factor in at all. They lack the autonomy over their resources that the provinces have, and receive their operating budgets directly from the federal government. In exchange, the feds take all the profits derived from the Great White North. They're set, as they can never go broke, but they can never profit and prosper. They won't wind up in the hard shape of PEI, but they won't be rolling in dough Alberta style. Thus the major difference between a province and a territory. (PS, Alberta's per capita GDP is ~55000 dollars ... NWT is at about 85k. If you think Alberta's rich, if there was a province of NWT, the few people that live there would be raking it in hand over fist even more than the Albertans.)"

So....how much do you know about "Mr. Wonderful".....the author of that quote? That information is out of date btw but I'm surprised that you would quote some anonymous guy on the net since you are the one who is always putting down the source of other quotes.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080511182740AA1r0dx

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

but it has nothing to do with people in one province looking down at another province.

It’s all in how and where the phrase is used and by whom. It’s the same as the phrase “from the other side of the tracks”…..again how, where and who.

When someone uses ‘have not’ to describe on Province and then uses ‘welfare state’ to describe another country and then add to that where it’s coming from….it all adds up.

the author of that quote?

Well to begin with after finding those quotes I did a bit more research and found that basically the information is true. However that term still seemed a bit confusing to me so I called a customer of mine whose daughter is taking Political Science at a University and after getting her phone number I called her. She confirmed the quote with the exception of not being sure if Quebec is still the ‘benchmark’.

I don’t put down sources unless I have a source. Many ‘quotes’ are given and quite a few do not have the author to look up, so I don’t say anything. If the author is there to look deeper into, then I do. Many quotes are from the Sun Media. They’re not hard to investigate at all. For instance in the media or elsewhere, if you find someone who is always condemning Muslims or Natives....it's isn't rocket science to understand where they are coming from.

I wonder sometimes how people survive in real life. If you’re at a party or even in a coffee shop and someone makes a comment on a subject do we say “what have you got to back that up”….or…..”have you a link to that”? Everyone would have to walk around with a computer. No instead, people debated….sometimes quietly….sometimes not.

[stevephinn2012]

"In Canada, the provinces are loosely divided into "have" and "have not." "Have not" provinces do not generate enough money domestically to cover their federally-mandated programmes (i.e. healthcare, welfare, pensions). "Have" provinces are the ones that do generate enough money to pay for their provincial programmes. Alberta and Ontario are the have provinces, Quebec is the benchmark of standards that the provinces have to meet, and all the others are "have not"."

better go "google" thast some more Ontario has been a "have not" province for at least the past 2 years

http://speakyourmind.thestar.com/experts/get-talking/economy-ontario-have-not-province/

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

Ontario has been a "have not" province for at least the past 2 years

Yes I know. Yet other Provinces still consider Ontario a 'have' Province based on its comparative wealth.

But you do bring up an interesting point because technically the person who said Quebec is a 'have not Province'............lives in one himself. 

The have and have not comparison is ridiculous IMO.

[pigdog47]

The History or Discovery Channel TV series "License to Drill" is interesting.

I'm impressed with the individuals portrayed on the  program, who come across as hard working, intelligenT, and highly motivated.  

Amazing technology, and "professional".   Compared to several other "reality" shows, I find this one well worth watching.

[pjcdn2005]

It’s all in how and where the phrase is used and by whom. It’s the same as the phrase “from the other side of the tracks”…..again how, where and who.

When someone uses ‘have not’ to describe on Province and then uses ‘welfare state’ to describe another country and then add to that where it’s coming from….it all adds up.

Hmmm...so  the definitions that you provided of 'have and have not provinces'  and of welfare state were not derogatory in any way and don't seem to be derogatory terms as far as I can tell. But because you don't like the person who used those 2 terms in this thread that must mean that this time...the terms were used to belittle people, instead of being used in the political sense?

I wonder sometimes how people survive in real life. If you’re at a party or even in a coffee shop and someone makes a comment on a subject do we say “what have you got to back that up”….or…..”have you a link to that”? Everyone would have to walk around with a computer. No instead, people debated….sometimes quietly….sometimes not.

Again...you're the one who often dismisses a statement based on its source or on who quoted it so I found it ironic that you quoted Mr Wonderful.It's that pot/kettle thing again. 🙂

Regardless, in the situation you describe, people are usually giving their opinion on something, not stating an opinion as fact. But yes...when someone does state their opinion as a fact...I might question it...depends on the situation.

[art-in-the-making]

pjcdn, here is a page from a message board that gives you a real inside look at the world of working seismic crew.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/seismic-line-crew-593154/

I knew about this as I knew someone who worked a winter doing this for min wage. As you see it is a world where basically the youth of the country is encouraged to forego or postpone an education in exchange for a low paying (although some expenses paid in many cases) , often drug and alcohol pervasive lifestyle.

On the other hand, it might be sort of considered as a stepping stone to getting into better jobs in the industry...

Regarding the have/have-not discussion, you might also note that even the link posted by cats refers to the label as "so-called" have or have-not, implying the reality that it is not a significant or meaningful label.

The definition given by "Mr Interesting" (not wonderful) is maybe not so far off the mark.

If children have free universal dental coverage in Quebec up to age ten and free pharmaceutical coverage to I don't know 18 or so, then are Quebec children "have-not"?

If Quebecers pay $1500 a semester to go to McGill and U of A is $2500 a semester does that make Quebec have-not??

Anyway, these are somewhat irrelevant digressions from the op.

I think there is a strong indication that the price of gas at the pump in Alberta is being manipulated downwards (in relation to prices in other Canadian cities) over the past few months by the oil companies. Why? Perhaps so that Albertans don't see such a disparity between their provincial budget oil royalty shortfall and the business as usual higher gas prices that are prevalent everywhere else.

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

instead of being used in the political sense?

If the shoe fits and in this case it does, especially when the person admits to being a racist and even said in the media that he is ‘proud of it’.

dismisses a statement based on its source

It is the unfortunate situation of the Internet. I’d to the same thing if in real life someone said they read something in …..oh lets say in the Sun newspaper…..or “I was listening to Ezra Levant the other day and he said…..”  However in real life, it is much easier to make a judgement about people and their direct or indirect motivations…. face to face.

[pigdog47]

"If Quebecers pay $1500 a semester to go to McGill and U of A is $2500 a semester does that make Quebec have-not"

Certainly not!  Widespread student protests ensured that Quebec students will pay far less than their fair share, and the financial disparity between what is charged vs actual costs will be borne by  the taxpayer.  

Regarding seismic line crew wages and living conditions, I think Tim Hortons and Macdonalds also encourage young people to pursue a low paying job.  Seems like they are always advertising for help...

As for the individuals who choose to endure hard work and privation in remote locations, I have nothing but respect for their choice.  

[cats1953]

""

Well to begin with after finding those quotes I did a bit more research and found that basically the information is true. However that term still seemed a bit confusing to me so I called a customer of mine whose daughter is taking Political Science at a University and after getting her phone number I called her. She confirmed the quote with the exception of not being sure if Quebec is still the ‘benchmark’. ""   

-------------  Well I called a Friend of a Friend of a Friend of mine who has their degree in Political Science and they happened to agree with me that I should paint my living room green, and since they said what I wanted to hear they must be right. 

[pigdog47]

""

-------------  Well I called a Friend of a Friend of a Friend of mine who has their degree in Political Science and they happened to agree with me that I should paint my living room green, and since they said what I wanted to hear they must be right. 

I'm thankful that your friend's friend's friend shared your architectural vision.  Contra green is a delightful choice that brings the jungle right into a living room.

[art-in-the-making]

Certainly not!  Widespread student protests ensured that Quebec students will pay far less than their fair share,

Just another fallacy created by the Conservative media and perpetuated by the ill-informed.

The fact is that Quebec students pay among the highest tuition fees in the world. Few countries put so many barriers in the way of their youth getting ahead in life

http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees

I can only presume the conservative corporate mindset is: keep these kids down so they can provide us more minimum wage labour.

But the ones who vote for a corporate government are those who say, "I dang well put myself through school, walked 4 miles through 20-foot snowdrifts, worked night shift in a zipper factory and had a paper route when I was 8, what's the matter with these kids...

Meanwhile, the Harper corporate government they elected sends CEOs on all-expenses paid junkets...

[pigdog47]

Barriers, lol.  Foreign students come here by the boatload to receive a higher education.

Funny how no matter how awesome Canada is, someone has to find another country or continent to be jealous of.   Chronic miserableness, with no cure in sight.

Like how come them Albertans get to pay less for gas than Quebecers?  

How come so and  so gets two pieces of candy, and I only get one?  

How come neighbour Bob makes more money than me?

http://tutkielmat.uta.fi/pdf/gradu03760.pdf#page33

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

Chronic miserableness, with no cure in sight.

Like how come them Albertans get to pay less for gas than Quebecers?

How come so and so gets two pieces of candy, and I only get one?

How come neighbour Bob makes more money than me?

To me the chronic miserableness comes from those Canadians who are greedy and jealous. Things like..

- "How come they get gas cheaper?"

- "How come they don't pay taxes?"

- "How come they get money that (sob, sob) I don't get?"

- "How come those immigrants get help when they come to Canada"

They're just never happy with what they have.....and they have to complain and whine because deep down inside.....they have no real life.

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

Funny how no matter how awesome Canada is, someone has to find another country or continent to be jealous of.

...........or another race of people.

[bb_cool_stuff]

I have no issue with people venting, we all do at times, but constant whiners hold my attention for about five seconds.

I remember Denis Leary response to whiners one time when they mentioned they were not happy because their life did not turn out the way they thought it would.

His response " Join the effing club, i thought i was going to be the Centre Fielder for the Boston Red Sox. Life is tough, get a helmet."

[art-in-the-making]

Funny how no matter how awesome Canada is, someone has to find another country or continent to be jealous of.   Chronic miserableness, with no cure in sight.

Funny how regardless of the topic of a thread, some just keep on saying any irrelevant thing that pops into their head

Funny what Denis Leary said - and altogether funny touch, whining about too much whining goin on LOL

Regarding the gas price in Alberta, my opinion is it only makes sense it should be cheaper there. However, that used to be the case - last several years, not so much. My guess is the lower price in Alta is mostly due to lower provincial tax. Years ago, Alberta used to get a real hefty discount, if I'm not mistaken. However, the last few months - it seems that the oil cos. have been lowering the price in Alta, which is one of the things I'm wondering about in this thread.

[bb_cool_stuff]

Whining about too much whining going on LOL

That is funny Art, I like that.

[pigdog47]

Regarding the gas price in Alberta, my opinion is it only makes sense it should be cheaper there. However, that used to be the case - last several years, not so much. My guess is the lower price in Alta is mostly due to lower provincial tax.

I'm not sure why a Quebecer should even care what motorists in Alberta (or for that matter, Albania) pay for their gas.  Maybe bitter cause Quebec socks them with high taxes?