eBay

irismoon12 · ‎06-28-2013

So here is the quick rundown of the problem which led me to post earlier about the GSP fee refund in a return situation.

Purchased a lot containing a camera, with battery grip, and two lenses, described as "good condition"

Package received on June 24

Items have various issues, including components not working, parts missing, and one lens with internal broken parts.

Messaged seller via ebay on June 25 regarding "item not as described"

Messaged seller via his gmail address and asked him to check his ebay messages

No response whatsoever from seller.

I am about to file a SNAD dispute but have a couple of questions:

ebay or PP?

Anytime I start researching a problem that is brewing I get frustrated at the ebay vs PP situation. Has anyone got a good breakdown of filing claims via ebay vs PP and how the processes differ? Plus which one would likely be more advantageous in my current situation, if there actually is a difference.

I may be forced to do it via PP when I start the process. However, if anyone has a link to a chart or article with a simple comparison it would be very helpful.

Also, Is it correct that if you win a PP claim you will ONLY get the actual money *IF* the person still has the funds in their PP account?! That's essentially useless to a buyer in many cases (especially when dealing with casual sellers who don't often use PP) isn't it?

Enforcing partial refunds.

Seems to be much dissenting information about this and if ebay/PP can actually enforce a PARTIAL refund due to various local laws etc. So the question is, would ebay/PP force me to send it all back to a non-responsive seller and just credit me once MY tracking information shows it was received?

I'm nervous about shipping an expensive box of camera gear to someone who won't answer a simple email. However, if he doesn't respond to the dispute, I'm assuming ebay/PP isn't just going to give me ALL my money back and allow me to keep it either.

So what typically happens in this state of unresponsive seller limbo?

As always, thanks for any assistance you can provide, always nice to hear an opinion from a few Pro's.

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-28-2013

I believe..but am not positive..that if you purchased the item on any site other than .com, the claim will automatically go through paypal, not ebay. I've heard if you purchased it while on .com, then you have a choice.

The only difference i've heard about the two is that ebay will sometimes refund the buyer rather than force the seller to do so. I've heard too that they will sometimes pay for the cost of returning the item...however..I would be suprised if they did that for international items.

Also, Is it correct that if you win a PP claim you will ONLY get the actual money *IF* the person still has the funds in their PP account?! That's essentially useless to a buyer in many cases (especially when dealing with casual sellers who don't often use PP) isn't it?

No, that's not true. If the item is covered by the paypal protection plan, they cover it, regardless of how much the selelr has in their account.

Seems to be much dissenting information about this and if ebay/PP can actually enforce a PARTIAL refund due to various local laws etc. So the question is, would ebay/PP force me to send it all back to a non-responsive seller and just credit me once MY tracking information shows it was received?

They can't enforce a partial refund. If you want to agree to one, that's fine but in that situation, you shouldn't be required to send the item back.

My concern about this transaction is no one seems to know exactly how the return system is set up if the sale went through the GSP and if all import fees are returned when the item is returned. Actually, now that I think about it..if you can..it would probably be better to file through ebay since they are involved with the program..paypal isn't.

femmefan1946 · ‎06-28-2013

You should be aware that many sellers , especially in high-value or high-fraud categories, are suspicious of demands for partial refunds.

All too often the buyer is just fishing for a post-purchase discount.

I would suggest that you return the shipment, with Delivery and probably Signature Confirmation, file a Paypal dispute and get your original payment and original shipping back.

If the seller refuses to refund you, paypal will do so from their own pocket and go after the seller for the money. They will get it eventually. With or without an eBay dispute, the seller will have his recalcitrance recorded on his selling record.

You can ask the seller for the return shipping, but it is unlikely that you will get it in this case since the seller is unresponsive.

irismoon12 · ‎06-29-2013

I could get a PP refund of original purchase price plus shipping. The return shipping, even with tracking & insurance, would be quite reasonable. It is the $235 import fees that concern me. If I *knew* I could get my import fees, paid via GSP, refunded I would certainly return the whole lot. It's frustrating that so far, nobody, and that includes ebay (!?) seems to know how to go about getting such import fees refunded in the case of a return. Importing via regular Canda Post there is a method to have the import fees adjusted (in cases of error) and or refunded (in cases of return).

I am also aware that many people ask for partial refunds as an after the fact discount. As a seller (different account) I have experienced this myself. However, in this case it is not a subjective difference in opinion about a big vs small scratch. There are a large number of significant issues which need to be fairly addressed.

I do know the seller is often out of town so I will give him some more time to respond but not too much.

I have to decide am I better off losing $250+ and having nothing OR spending $1900+ and having a bunch of damaged goods that I could still use after repair or sell 'AS-IS'. Tough decision.....

Thanks again.

irismoon12 · ‎07-02-2013

Just an update...

Finally got a response from seller. It took a week to get a single sentence which basically said "it was all fine when I shipped it" which is utter nonsense. Thus, I filed a dispute, which was automatically kicked over to Paypal right from the beginning. We shall see how he responds from here.

As a very interesting aside, I know have a little more insight into the GSP and returns etc. I will also post this is my other thread about GSP and returns, however:

When I started the dispute process in Paypal I entered the transaction ID of the item purchase. When I submitted the number Paypal automatically added a second dispute, linked to the first one, which was for the charges paid to Pitney Bowes for the GSP import charges. There was an explanation with it that said if an item is not received these charges will also be refunded. This is obviously good news. Sadly, it does NOT say that these charges will be refunded if the item is returned. It doesn't specifically say they won't be either, but the lack of details in a return situation, like mine, is frustrating.

chimera148 · ‎07-10-2013

@irismoon12 wrote:

I have to decide am I better off losing $250+ and having nothing OR spending $1900+ and having a bunch of damaged goods that I could still use after repair or sell 'AS-IS'. Tough decision.....

In your negotiations, you may want to consider the below. Just a heads up.

i*m-still-here · ‎07-10-2013

I recall a thread which said that GSP refunds include all extra costs, but I can't put my finger on that thread any longer.

The seller is now claiming tha the damage occurred en route as if the item was fine when it was shipped, then it follows that the damage occurred during shipping.

When an item I shipped arrives damaged I refund immediately and then file an insurance claim.

Considering that the GSP shipping costs are almost always very high, it suggests that items are insured for damage.

In such cases returns are not recommended or advised.

In short: If the seller is stating that the damage occurred en route, then it might make sense just to go with that whether you believe it or not as you can't prove otherwise.

This might be the better choice as returns in such situations are bizarre as the seller can't a file a claim for damages and have the item returned as well.

Can't have it both ways.