So what do you do when you win an auction & the seller then cancels the sale & relists the item?

[mikeandterri1987]

So i 'won' an open auction for a watch bracelet at a cost of GBP 2.00 from a vendor on the UK site last week. Got an email saying shipping cost would be GBP 8.00.  Responded within 2 hrs with a no problem, just send me an invoice with the shipping costs included so that i can pay for the item.  Next day, seller cancelled the sale & relisted the item with a minimum price of GBP 20.00.  The seller (Margo5415) wont complete the sale claiming she "didn't think i wanted the item" ?   I protested but to no avail as it seems obvious to me that the seller felt the item would (and should) sell for far more than GBP 2.00.

Matter & vendor were reported to ebay but as usual, ebay wont do anything about the sale nor penalize the seller. (Hey they make $$ off these sellers and the more it sells for the more $$ they make).  Ebay simply told me they would 'investigate' but to leave negative feedback for the seller which i did. I wont go into how many times i had to re-explain the situation to the help desk person and had to listen to them say  'dont worry, we are here to help you'.       Is there no other recourse here at all?

[reid4311]

Hello:

I had a look at the listing and it states that they only post to the U.K. Since you are here did you ask before bidding if they'd post it to Canada?

I bid on U.K. stuff frequently and some who list U.K. shipping only will ship here if you ask beforehand. Then again there have been a few rare occasions when they said no they'd rather not.

[momcqueen]

First of all, I'm sorry to hear that this transaction did not turn out as you hoped. As a buyer, the negative feedback that you left for the seller (whose identity will be deleted by the moderator here) will police the seller and, if/when others experience the same as you, greatly limit their ability to sell on ebay. Their feedback now sits at an embarrassing percentage. This is a start.

To tell you the truth, of all the shenanigans that may be played in this field, a cancelled transaction as a result of a too-low selling price is the least ominous and/or onerous for the buyer. I won't go into detail, but if the seller were really determined NOT to let this item go for the price it sold to you, they could have pulled other dishonest tricks that would have created a much larger headache for you on your quest to get your money back. 

Anyway, please be assured most sellers here conduct themselves with greater integrity. Especially those you may find on the Community Boards. Perhaps you may find one that specializes in the types of things that you tend to like to shop for.

I will also mention that in my earlier career as a bargain hunter learned any deal that looks too good to be true will be too good to be true nine times out of ten. I search for experienced sellers with impeccable feedback now. I grew weary of being the training ground for casual sellers. But that's just me. 

Good luck as you carry forward.

As an aside, I wrote this guide for Buying on eBay awhile back. You may (or may not) find it contains useful and/or encouraging advice. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/10-Steps-to-Hassle-Free-Buying-on-eBay-/10000000204740571/g.html

[momcqueen]

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@reid4311 wrote:

Hello:

I had a look at the listing and it states that they only post to the U.K. Since you are here did you ask before bidding if they'd post it to Canada?

I bid on U.K. stuff frequently and some who list U.K. shipping only will ship here if you ask beforehand. Then again there have been a few rare occasions when they said no they'd rather not.

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The last time I was shopping on ebay.co.uk, I noticed some incredibly strange business reflected in the Shopping Basket postage costs. I filled my cart with giant, heavy items from one seller with the direction that it be posted to Canada and it kept telling me that postage was free. I know it wouldn't have been; the seller did not have their calculated postage set up like that. I checked. 

If the OP's seller doesn't have dispatch to Canada specifically blocked, anyone from Canada can bid on it and then be required to pay whatever previously unspecified postage costs the seller deems fit. 

[reid4311]

That's why I always ask first. Just to clarify it's O.K. if it doesn't specify specifically that they do indeed ship here. If the rate seems out of sorts, too good to be true I drop them a note.

As for carts, I never use them. If there is more than one thing from a seller I buy the first then in checkout you see view other listings and I go that way. Then I request an invoice.

[reallynicestamps]

Until recently, the only way a transaction could be cancelled was with the cooperation of both buyer and seller. (Mutual Cancellation requests were sent to the buyer by the seller. The buyer agreed -or ignored- the request, and the transactions was cancelled, releasing both parties from the transaction. Both could leave feedback.)

More punitive was the Unpaid Item Dispute, which gave the buyer a choice of paying for the item or receiving a Strike. No feedback could be left.

The new swift cancellation policy seems to have the unwanted side effect of always producing at least one unhappy party while allowing feedback and Responses to feedback to be left.

EBay really needs a committee of sellers and of buyers to review policy changes to give a Real World perspective on all the Awful Things that could happen.

Another example, is expecting overseas sellers to send prepaid shipping labels to buyers who need to return items. Which is actually impossible.

[mikeandterri1987]

I did ask the seller (before i bid on the item) if they would ship to Canada and they said yes but the postage amount would be adjusted and then they sent another email the next morning (final day of the auction) to say the postage to Canada would be GBP 8.00.  I was okay with that amount and said so in my response to them.

I'm not out anything other than not getting the bracelet but it just **bleep** me off that the vendor can offer up an auction like that & then cancel it if they dont like the final sale price and simply re-list the item with no consequences other than one bad feedback.  When those circumstances are clear like these were, ebay should penalize the seller. 

[momcqueen]

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@reid4311 wrote:

.... As for carts, I never use them. If there is more than one thing from a seller I buy the first then in checkout you see view other listings and I go that way. Then I request an invoice.

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Are you doing this through your Purchase History? I thought Immediate Payment was required for all Buy It now listings but perhaps that rule has not yet come to ebay.co.uk. 

@mikeandterri1987 wrote:

I did ask the seller (before i bid on the item) if they would ship to Canada and they said yes but the postage amount would be adjusted and then they sent another email the next morning (final day of the auction) to say the postage to Canada would be GBP 8.00.  I was okay with that amount and said so in my response to them.

I'm not out anything other than not getting the bracelet but it just **bleep** me off that the vendor can offer up an auction like that & then cancel it if they dont like the final sale price and simply re-list the item with no consequences other than one bad feedback. When those circumstances are clear like these were, ebay should penalize the seller. 

I agree that makes the actions of the seller all the more scatterbrained and unprofessional. For the sake of argument, what do you think would serve as adequate punishment for the seller in this case? What more should ebay do? Revoke their ability to sell altogether? Fine them?

Unless ebay.co.uk is run drastically different than ebay.ca, the seller in this case would have gotten your negative feedback which gives them an embarrassingly low rating PLUS a defect from ebay for cancelling the transaction.

The point of your feedback is to warn other buyers; the point of the defect is to flag them for ebay as being a risky seller.

What more would you, as the wronged party in this, like to see happen? Nothing will get this item to you now unless you're prepared to pay the new price and the seller hasn't blocked you. I'm genuinely curious; the question is not intended to sound belligerent. Please don't take it as such. 

[momcqueen]

I did ask the seller (before i bid on the item) if they would ship to Canada and they said yes but the postage amount would be adjusted and then they sent another email the next morning (final day of the auction) to say the postage to Canada would be GBP 8.00.  I was okay with that amount and said so in my response to them.

I'm not out anything other than not getting the bracelet but it just **bleep** me off that the vendor can offer up an auction like that & then cancel it if they dont like the final sale price and simply re-list the item with no consequences other than one bad feedback. When those circumstances are clear like these were, ebay should penalize the seller. 

I agree that makes the actions of the seller all the more scatterbrained and unprofessional. For the sake of argument, what do you think would serve as adequate punishment for the seller in this case? What more should ebay do? Revoke their ability to sell altogether? Fine them?

Unless ebay.co.uk is run drastically different than ebay.ca, the seller in this case would have gotten your negative feedback which gives them an embarrassingly low rating PLUS a defect from ebay for cancelling the transaction.

The point of your feedback is to warn other buyers; the point of the defect is to flag them for ebay as being a risky seller.

What more would you, as the wronged party in this, like to see happen? Nothing will get this item to you now unless you're prepared to pay the new price and the seller hasn't blocked you. I'm genuinely curious; the question is not intended to sound belligerent. Please don't take it as such. 

[reid4311]

Regarding my not using carts, I click 'buy it now'. Then of course the next step is 'pay now' but I always see in smaller letters 'or visit sellers store'. You can do that but if I have additional discs (I buy almost exclusively cds) in my watch list I just go back there and load it up. Once I'm finished I go into purchase history and there they are! I then click pay and that opens a window with all the discs I bought. I then hit the 'request invoice' tab and sit back and wait! Now, if I'm bidding on discs I just tell them when the other disc expires time wise and they're happy. Same thing applies, if I win the second disc I send a request for an invoice. I do this here and in the U.K. and Germany as well. I don't bother with Americans much anymore. Even if they'll post without GSP the rates are usually such that I can get it cheaper from one of the other sites I mentioned or the site that starts with A. I guess this seems a little time consuming and I suppose it is but the bottom line here is I get no unpleasant surprises.

[pierrelebel]

"...cancel it if they dont like the final sale price and simply re-list the item... "

I am sorry you could not complete your transaction as planned.  However, let us not assume anything.  We all know the meaning of the word "assume".

Looking at the few other items sold by that seller over the last month, they sold for less than half (typically £0.99) what you bid.  So I suspect (I do not assume) that there is another reason why the transaction was not completed.  It may have nothing to do with what you consider to be a low price.

 I hope the seller reads this thread and take the opportunity to give us her perspective.

[mikeandterri1987]

mjwl...   please explain this 'defect from ebay for cancelling the transaction' you referred to.  What effect does it have on the seller? Is it visible to anyone else such as myself? Once i have the explanation of the 'defect' i mentioned above, i should be able to answer your question about any additional penalty.

reid...   i'm not really sure what you are going on about.  I seldom use the cart, always ask about shipping costs (if they'll ship) to my location and generally read the negative/neutral reviews on sellers I'm not familiar with before i bid.

[reallynicestamps]

Defects affect sellers because eBay uses them to assess how good sellers are at pleasing customers.

The smaller the seller the harder a defect is on him.

Some penalties for defects are reduced number of listings allowed, reduced value of listings allowed, increased fees (eBay/ Paypal charges sellers upwards of 20% of what you pay as their fees), and in serious cases, closing of selling accounts.

So your Defect may have had a very serious effect on his ability to make a living on eBay.

Over a trinket that cost less than a large coffee and a donut at Tim's.

[mikeandterri1987]

I have no sympathy for fraudsters or sellers such as this one.  As for the rest of my question about 'defects'... is a sellers 'defect'  visible to others?  ie... can i see that the seller has a defect so that i can make an informed decision on whether or not i want to take a chance and bid on one of their items?

[pierrelebel]

"is a sellers 'defect'  visible to others?"

No.

And, quite frankly, I do not think that seller earned a "defect" in this instance since the listing showed shipping within the UK only and the "transaction" has not been paid.

[momcqueen]

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@mikeandterri1987 wrote:

mjwl...   please explain this 'defect from ebay for cancelling the transaction' you referred to.  What effect does it have on the seller? Is it visible to anyone else such as myself? Once i have the explanation of the 'defect' i mentioned above, i should be able to answer your question about any additional penalty.

reid...   i'm not really sure what you are going on about.  I seldom use the cart, always ask about shipping costs (if they'll ship) to my location and generally read the negative/neutral reviews on sellers I'm not familiar with before i bid.

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Your job as the buyer is to leave feedback for your transactions which is visible to anyone and everyone for all eternity unless it is deemed so unfit it is removed. Defects are an internal mechanism and not of your concern as a buyer; they are not visible to anyone but ebay and the seller who may or may not have earned one. 

Furthermore, I will tell you right now it is not enough to read only the neutral or negative reviews given to or left by another member before deciding whether to involve yourself with them. Many people will leave soft positives that reflect how they really feel but not attach a grey or red mark to it. Feedback is a permanent reflection of a user's character, both the feedback left and received.

As to your reply to 'reid' if you look more closely at his reply you will see he is answering my question about the UK Shopping Basket, not yours. He was not going 'on about' anything, merely answering my question as had been put to him by me. 

At this point, I would ask you to ask yourself what you still hope to gain from this experience. We have sympathized here and ebay Customer Service itself has empathized with you. Feedback was left. Advice given. No one can serve a pound of flesh to you for your troubles. I might be plenty annoyed when I drive to the grocery store only to discover they're sold-out of the darn bananas that I came for, but it doesn't mean I'm going to stage a protest at their front doors and start a fire in the parking lot. 

[momcqueen]

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@pierrelebel wrote:

"is a sellers 'defect'  visible to others?"

No.

And, quite frankly, I do not think that seller earned a "defect" in this instance since the listing showed shipping within the UK only and the "transaction" has not been paid.

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For the record, defects apply in the same a manner on ebay.co.uk as they do as here as per http://ocsnext.ebay.co.uk/ocs/sc and the question 'What are defects?' with the boldface below being mine. Unless your inference was specifically whether he 'earned' it which is not for us to say in this case. 

As of August 20, 2014, the transaction "defect rate" has replaced four individual detailed seller rating requirements in evaluating seller performance. This new rating may impact your status.

The following transaction-related defects affect your defect rate and seller status:

• Detailed seller rating of 1, 2 or 3 for item as described
• Detailed seller rating of 1 for shipping time
• Negative or neutral feedback
• Return initiated for a reason that indicates the item was not as described
• eBay Money Back Guarantee (previously known as eBay Buyer Protection) or PayPal Purchase Protection case opened for an item not received or an item not as described
• Seller-cancelled transactions
• Starting with the August 20 evaluation, to meet eBay's minimum standard, sellers can have up to a maximum 5% of transactions with one or more transaction defects over the most recent evaluation period. A maximum 2% will allow a seller to qualify as an eBay Top Rated Seller. Only transactions with UK buyers count.
• Transactions with international buyers count toward your global performance rating. For global sales, sellers will need to maintain a defect rate of 5% or lower to meet minimum global seller performance standards, and a defect rate of 2% or lower to meet global Top Rated Seller standards.

[mikeandterri1987 · Accepted solution]

Spare me your condescending remarks mjwl.  The open auction was completed with a win price of GBP 2.00 & the invoice requested immediately after the auction was over. The seller said they would ship out of the UK (prior to the ending of the auction) at a cost of GBP 8.00   The invoice wasn't provided and the sale then cancelled by the seller the next day and relisted the item with a minimum buy price of GBP 20.00      Apparently ebay sees nothing wrong with doing this probably because they're getting a bigger slice of the sale if it sells at the higher price.  Game over, nothing can be done,  I'm moving on, case closed. 

[momcqueen]

I think you are mistaken about your interpretation of any 'remarks' that you took to be 'condescending'. As such, I would encourage you to carefully re-read the posts above and consider the information that has been given to you by members that have triple your experience using ebay and who also took the time to answer your question(s).

Best of luck to you as you carry forward.  

[mater721]

"And, quite frankly, I do not think that seller earned a "defect" in this instance since the listing showed shipping within the UK only and the "transaction" has not been paid."

Pierre, not sure what your reasoning above is...

According to OP... "I did ask the seller (before i bid on the item) if they would ship to Canada and they said yes but the postage amount would be adjusted and then they sent another email the next morning (final day of the auction) to say the postage to Canada would be GBP 8.00."

So even if original listing stated not shipping outside of UK, they waived that claim by telling the buyer they would ship to Canada and actually gave a shipping cost for that.

Sellers should not avoid defects just because the "transaction was not paid".  The seller is the reason the transaction was not paid.

[pierrelebel]

There are always two sides to a coin.