eBay

urienrxo · ‎03-11-2014

Hello to all the honest sellers out there. I was wondering if it was possible to create a petition or whatever so that ebay changes its fairness towards sellers? I mean we all know ebay takes the buyers' side most of the time ( if not, all the time ) and I am hoping for a change. What do you sellers think?

mr.elmwood · ‎03-11-2014

Why?

You are an independent business that rents space on the eBay platform.

In any business there are "problems". The problems here are far less than in real life.

Yesterday, I went into a local retail store wanting something they did not have to give me. They defaulted to me. I return the courtesy to my customers.

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froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎03-12-2014

@mr.elmwood wrote:
Why?

You are an independent business that rents space on the eBay platform.

In any business there are "problems". The problems here are far less than in real life.

Yesterday, I went into a local retail store wanting something they did not have to give me. They defaulted to me. I return the courtesy to my customers.

Not that I think it will change anything but why not?

You don't think big businesses in the US aren't constantly lobbying ebay or even the government for online transactions?

To say just live with it? Why? Does everyone else? Is your advice to just grin and bear it, no matter if you think it's wrong?

To see the changes that ebay has made, it appears to me that someone, or group of someones is 'petitioning' ebay constantly to tweak their rules to help them.

Even ebay allows a petition by their feedback surveys.

Call it a petition, call it lobbying, call it complaining, whatever but I am not sure what is wrong with it.

rose-dee · ‎03-12-2014

@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:
To see the changes that ebay has made, it appears to me that someone, or group of someones is 'petitioning' ebay constantly to tweak their rules to help them.

I would hazard a guess that that petition is the Almighty Dollar, in the case of sellers like Target, Toys R Us, etc. etc. And they likely also have the ear of eBay as time goes on. How many of us have a corporate vice-president who can pick up the phone and talk directly to an eBay vice-president? That's the kind of "petition competition" you're up against.

It would take millions of everyday sellers to add up to the clout the big guys have -- and all those millions would have to exactly align in their thinking. To what end? Waste time and effort organizing a petition that EBay could choose to simply ignore -- and then what? Would millions of individual sellers agree all at once to stop selling here? I doubt it. Collective bargaining isn't very likely on this site. EBay offers unmatched international exposure to sellers -- it's their house, and in return, sellers have to play by their rules. Unfortunately that's the price (and eBay knows it).

Still, there are avenues provided for suggestions and changes. I do think some attention is paid to specific threads that are set up here by eBay (like the one on the GSP, or asking for comments about selling from Canadian sellers).

I don't know about the surveys. Sometimes I think they're far too general to have any effect on a particular policy change; other times I wonder if somebody may really be paying attention to those "comments" boxes, or if they just let us fill them in with prose to make us feel better.

mr.elmwood · ‎03-12-2014

@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:
@mr.elmwood wrote:
Why?

You are an independent business that rents space on the eBay platform.

In any business there are "problems". The problems here are far less than in real life.

Yesterday, I went into a local retail store wanting something they did not have to give me. They defaulted to me. I return the courtesy to my customers.
Not that I think it will change anything but why not?

You don't think big businesses in the US aren't constantly lobbying ebay or even the government for online transactions?

To say just live with it? Why? Does everyone else? Is your advice to just grin and bear it, no matter if you think it's wrong?

To see the changes that ebay has made, it appears to me that someone, or group of someones is 'petitioning' ebay constantly to tweak their rules to help them.

Even ebay allows a petition by their feedback surveys.

Call it a petition, call it lobbying, call it complaining, whatever but I am not sure what is wrong with it.

I am unclear what you are railing against. Change? There is no such thing. There is a constant evolution of policies, procedures, software, applications, etc.

Evolution is constant and unrelenting. The options are: lead, follow, get out of the way.

Nine or ten years ago, eBay switched from a FIVE PAGE sell your item form to a one page format. Sellers went crazy with indignation over this inconvenient "change". They wanted the time consuming, error prone, cumbersome, inadequate, five page form back. They all got un over.

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urienrxo · ‎03-12-2014

And this is why sellers will keep getting scammed on ebay all the time. The point of this is, a buyer returned my "item" in a picture format, in other words, I never got my item back. He took my item and opened a case and got away with it. Of course, i provided proof, blabla, all the procedures...etc...and nothing!

I lost my item and my money.

rose-dee · ‎03-12-2014

You need to realize that the items you're selling are in high fraud, high scam categories - these things will attract some of the worst of eBay buyers.

I'd also say there are some problems with your listings. This one that I looked at is an example:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/playstation-3-slim-motherboard-cech-2501A-ps3-board-mainboard-/331149996862?p...

Simply saying "Make sure it's compatible!" isn't enough. It's up to the seller to properly describe the item, which means you need to actually specify what this item is and isn't compatible with. The description is minimal and vague. More information is needed. For example -- How old is the board? When/where was it purchased? How often used (if used)? Is it easy to fit into another unit (a DIY job, or do you need a tech)? Any written instructions come with it?

The same goes for the shoes -- a few more photos and more detail is needed, or you'll end up with an INAD claim.

Shipping costs are inadequate and confusing - you indicate you ship worldwide, but you tell buyers outside of Canada to contact you for exact shipping costs. This is a recipe for trouble. When I entered "United States" in the shipping section, what I got was the $14.00 Canadian rate. A U.S. buyer will assume that is the posted shipping rate -- believe me, most buyers will not contact you first to confirm.

I'm not saying these issues were necessarily the cause of your unfortunate experience, but they will sooner or later cause other problems with buyers. If you provide specific, detailed information and lots of clear photos, you're more likely to attract the kind of buyers you want, and buyers will be less likely to be unhappy.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎03-12-2014

@mr.elmwood wrote:
@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:
@mr.elmwood wrote:
Why?

You are an independent business that rents space on the eBay platform.

In any business there are "problems". The problems here are far less than in real life.

Yesterday, I went into a local retail store wanting something they did not have to give me. They defaulted to me. I return the courtesy to my customers.
Not that I think it will change anything but why not?

You don't think big businesses in the US aren't constantly lobbying ebay or even the government for online transactions?

To say just live with it? Why? Does everyone else? Is your advice to just grin and bear it, no matter if you think it's wrong?

To see the changes that ebay has made, it appears to me that someone, or group of someones is 'petitioning' ebay constantly to tweak their rules to help them.

Even ebay allows a petition by their feedback surveys.

Call it a petition, call it lobbying, call it complaining, whatever but I am not sure what is wrong with it.
I am unclear what you are railing against. Change? There is no such thing. There is a constant evolution of policies, procedures, software, applications, etc.

Evolution is constant and unrelenting. The options are: lead, follow, get out of the way.

Nine or ten years ago, eBay switched from a FIVE PAGE sell your item form to a one page format. Sellers went crazy with indignation over this inconvenient "change". They wanted the time consuming, error prone, cumbersome, inadequate, five page form back. They all got un over.

I was railing against you summarily dismissing the suggestion of a petition based on your comment that it's a business, when it's clear that the big players do not follow any of your advice. Was I unclear?

urienrxo · ‎03-13-2014

using the model number of the ps3 motherboard is more than enough for an experienced buyer to guess whether it's compatible or not with his console.

For some reason, I cannot set the shipping fees properly because I list on ebay.com and the main shipping option is US related.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎03-13-2014

@urienrxo wrote:
using the model number of the ps3 motherboard is more than enough for an experienced buyer to guess whether it's compatible or not with his console.
For some reason, I cannot set the shipping fees properly because I list on ebay.com and the main shipping option is US related.

you really should sell on ebay.ca, unless you can cross the border and ship from there. Otherwise you face challenges with shipping times, amounts and more. It is just complicating things for yourself.

I agree with you about the motherboard for the PS3, but it can backfire. It doesn't hurt to say 'this will not work in all PS3's, the part number must match yours'. It's been so long since I worked on a ps3, but I am assuming aside from the different models, that the boards have to match other components like xbox.

I specifically got burned on a $450 macbook air mainboard. When I listed, there was only 1 model of that size, but by the time it sold, there were other models. While I had the part number on it, some donut bought it, tried to jam it in to their air, broke it and then claimed I sold the wrong one. It took 3 weeks but paypal finally decided in the buyers favour and I was out $450.

i*m-still-here · ‎03-13-2014

I buy and sell.

I sell more than I buy but I buy several items every day.

Sellers who don't buy in quantity don't fully understand the buying end of it.

You say that ebay sides with buyers most of the time, but the ONLY instance I can think of when that's true is when an item does not arrive.

Some of those are scams but many are not.

In addition to that, certainly there are a few true blue scams and if a buyer is really into defrauding sellers then it can be done, but those are the real crooks and they likely don't waste much time on this venue.

As far as I can tell all other issues favour sellers.

It's true: I get a little edgy when sellers keep claiming that eBay favours buyers because it's just not true.

If there is any disparity, then eBay favours sellers.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎03-13-2014

@i*m-still-here wrote:
I buy and sell.
I sell more than I buy but I buy several items every day.

Sellers who don't buy in quantity don't fully understand the buying end of it.

You say that ebay sides with buyers most of the time, but the ONLY instance I can think of when that's true is when an item does not arrive.
Some of those are scams but many are not.

In addition to that, certainly there are a few true blue scams and if a buyer is really into defrauding sellers then it can be done, but those are the real crooks and they likely don't waste much time on this venue.

As far as I can tell all other issues favour sellers.

It's true: I get a little edgy when sellers keep claiming that eBay favours buyers because it's just not true.
If there is any disparity, then eBay favours sellers.

I buy and sell both as well, and I would have to disagree with you.

When it comes to claims, ebay and paypal will almost always side with the buyer. I don't disagree with this, since it ends up being the word of each.

If a buyer chooses to claim they didn't receive an item, even with tracking, traditionally they would get refunded. That has changed and I am not sure whether ebay.com covers non receipt claims, but I do know that I have had INR claims through ebay.com and once I show tracking info, I am off the hook, but the buyer may still receive a refund. I am not sure.

If a buyer says the items is significantly not as described, both ebay and paypal almost always side with the buyer.

If a buyer damages the items and says it is DOA, same thing.

If a buyer willfully claims an issue in order to get a discount or free item, ebay will side with them.

This must be true, as Ebay has gone to great pains to tell us sellers how they banned something like 950 000 buyers who were taking advantage of the system. The reason they could take advantage of the system is because it heavily favoured the buyer.

This is changing and while I like to bash ebay, they have actively, IMHO, reduce the number of scammers and I feel much more comfortable sending items without tracking (although I guess that will change soon).

As a buyer, if I get either an INR or SNAD, I feel wholly confident that ebay and paypal will back me up and that I have the upper hand, which is as it should be.

i*m-still-here · ‎03-13-2014

orrgal-e, I don't disagree with the points in your post. However, there is much more to it.

Many (even most) sellers can be very sloppy about how they gloss over damage. It's also very common to purposely hide condition issues.

It takes a lot of vigilance not to fall prey to those sellers, and even so the best of us still get nailed regularly.

As a buyer when I receive an item not as described it's always such a letdown not to mention a problem.

Sure, I can return the item and that is as it should be, but the cost to me can be substantial.

To add insult to injury sellers can be so nasty when you want to return their stuff to them.

In addition, when an item arrives broken sellers even have the option of demanding expensive returns prior to refunding.

I've shipped a lot of garbage for a lot of money. It feels so bizarre, but that's the system.

As a buyer I've learned that the ONLY way to return is with tracking.

Sellers are 100 times worse than buyers for making false claims of non-arrival.

In other words: When a buyer claims that an item is not as described: It's probably true and that's why ebay backs them.

A buyer who spends money on an item wants that item, and so clearly when an INADed claim is made it makes sense to believe it.

In short: When a seller ships an item not as described the seller usually gets away with it and sellers know that's the way the system is set up.

That is because most buyers just suck it up because the hassle and expense involved in returns is too great.

(BTW: Ebay does recognize that as they will often pay return shipping when bought and sold within the States.

However, Canadians buying from the US get no help with return shipping and really: In these cases sellers should be obliged to pay shipping both ways.)

i*m-still-here · ‎03-13-2014

@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:
This must be true, as Ebay has gone to great pains to tell us sellers how they banned something like 950 000 buyers who were taking advantage of the system.

Are you sure about that?

Ebay banned about 950,000 sellers.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎03-13-2014

Wasn't it 5000 i*m ?

I think it happened last spring, but I stand to be corrected with the numbers.

i*m-still-here · ‎03-13-2014

@bb_cool_stuff wrote:
Wasn't it 5000 i*m ?

I think it happened last spring, but I stand to be corrected with the numbers.

Well, I'm not sure. I do know they kicked a lot of sellers off and I was just using the number posted by froogal-e.

Did ebay ban buyers too like he said?

I wasn't aware of that if they did.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎03-13-2014

Did ebay ban buyers too like he said ?

Can only speak for myself, but three buyers I had dealt with were tossed for making, I guess, too many INR Claims.

Just with my example I'm pretty sure quite a few questionable buyers were also tossed.

urienrxo · ‎03-13-2014

How do you buy and sell a lot if you have zero feedback? and I totally disagree with you...

bb_cool_stuff · ‎03-13-2014

Here we go again, this comment seems to reappear every couple of months.

Many of the Regulars have Buying, Selling & Posting IDs.

You are allowed to disagree, but were you proactive in Reporting The Buyer ?

inuk_the_polar_bear · ‎03-13-2014

It was 15,000 IDs that did selling. Any ID is a selling ID, that is misleading. The connecting thread through most of them was a low level respect for the customer and lousy customer service.

Buyers get tossed all the time, they just do not make any noise.

Urinen, I have 8000 sales on my other ID, or, does this one mean I do not know anything?