eBay

desertrosegarden · ‎02-06-2013

Ebays policies are set in place to protect themselves, their profits, and other financial interests. The buyer protection program is nothing but an illusion of safety. Ebay protects the sellers of counterfeits by ensuring that they get their fraudulent merchandise back to be re-sold, even though selling it is illegal in the first place. and return shipping comes out of the buyers pocket, how is that protection at all. When you report a seller for anything, nothing is done about it because ebay would loose out on selling fees from that seller, so they wouldn't limit their selling, because that would be limiting their profits. Sounds like gangster activity, no? Al Capone, meet your match!

i*m-still-here · ‎02-06-2013

Well, I don't know if it's really about ebay policy or online buying in general............ but I have to agree that the buyer protection is not all it's cracked up to be.

The problem you pointed out isn't restricted to counterfeit items.

It's an issue that touches all items right across the board.

When a buyer receives items that are not as described then return shipping is often so high that shipping the item back makes no sense.

Most sellers do not take returns easily, and so shipping back with tracking and/or insurance is essential.

I'm not sure how to fix that, but I do know that when sellers post that ebay is all about protecting buyers that's just not true.

To add insult to injury, now there's a "report a buyer" button and when a buyer is the least vocal or complains too much, sellers are very quick to click that button.

There is a lot of $$$ getting spent shipping garbage back and forth around the world.

nuvistors · ‎02-06-2013

desert, sweetie, You are not forced to use ebay.

If you don't like the rules you can hawk your wares at a yard sale.

pierrelebel · ‎02-06-2013

desertrosegarden - I reviewed the 66 feedback you have left for your sellers in the last year and it appears you were generally pretty satisfied with most transactions.

eBay was OK then.

Why would one bad transaction change all that?

dipmicro · ‎02-07-2013

Ebay policies are set to cause the least harm in average. If there was way for buyers to claim counterfeit and enforce refund on those ground, buyers would abuse it to the bone. Ebay has determined there is fewer sellers mailing counterfeits or bricks than buyers abusing buyer protection, so the lower harm is done by having buyers pay return shipping across the board.

Ebay is not in the dispute mediation business, their rules are "simplified" to work for majority. If you have been defrauded, you should press charges with the police.

desertrosegarden · ‎02-07-2013

it sounds to me a lot like you people (dipmicro, nuvisitor, and Pierre) are the very sellers ebay is protecting. you have no right to tell me what I should think, just as you have every right to speak your mind about what you think. And yes, although I did make out ok in the long run, I have uncovered along the way that ebays notion of protection, is only for their own interests. Try reporting a seller who has over 200 NFB claiming that the seller sold counterfeits, and probably 200 cases to go with them, and then check every so often to see if the sellers listings are still there- my point is that they will be there still, guaranteed. Ebay cannot afford to loose these sellers' business.About this ridiculousness of the buyer paying return shipping, I can see that if the return is for any other reason then a counterfeit, then it may be reasonable to have to pay. But in the event that you have been sold a fake and had to open up a item not as described case, claiming the item to be a fake, which is ILLEGAL FOLKS, then the seller should have to take sole responsibility for his/her choice too participate in ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. I have had to fight tooth and nail for justice on this, and the Paypal protection is in place so that I shouldn't have to. It shouldn't be about fairness across the board, it is supposed to be on a case by case basis. And I suppose there are just as many dishonest buyers, as there are sellers, but it is probably a lot harder to defraud a seller and ebay out of money then it is for a seller to sell fakes. The reality is, there is so much protection for the seller, ie delivery confirmation, as well as the buyer having to prove their item is not as described, or had been received defective or broken by providing pics. after all that, I don't know how else a buyer can cheat a seller for free products. But what protection is there really for the buyer, when they loose out ultimately by having to pay for return shipping, or if they deem it not financially practical, then they end up out the money and with an item they can't use. How is that buyer protection?

pierrelebel · ‎02-07-2013

"But what protection is there really for the buyer"

I totally agree with you.

If you feel sellers on eBay may cheat you and you have no factual protection, buying on eBay (or anywhere else online for that matter) is not for you.

Best to go to the nearest mall and buy your stuff there.

Good Luck.

desertrosegarden · ‎02-07-2013

As I have mentioned in my other posts regarding the shipping hikes, I do intend to stop using ebay, as soon as I have received the last of my orders and gone through the "motions" if any more items require it. I would just like to educate buyers before I go. They have a right to know that they won't be in fact "protected" as ebay and paypal suggest. At least when you buy online anywhere else, you can be sure that you don't have to worry about getting counterfeits, unless you shop on amazon marketplace and other related sites.

cumos55 · ‎02-07-2013

Many sellers do not limit themselves to selling only on eBay...

How can one guarantee that the same counterfeit product will not be found elsewhere?

Sold by the same seller?

or

Sold by other sellers that use the same source of inventory?

Counterfeit product can be found everywhere

and finally ... How does one recognize counterfeit product, if the sellers knows to disguise it is being sold?

On eBay one can check a sellers' feedback... Can you do that elsewhere?

*aurora-*-borealis* · ‎02-07-2013

I think your best protection is to be a wary buyer. I try to avoid sellers who use stock photos cause 80% of the time, I get something that looks very different. If I really like something in the stock photo, I'd read the description very carefully. If the seller notes that there might be discrepancies between the product and photo, I'd pass. If there was no mention, I'd still message the seller to ask if their product is exactly the same as the photo. Perhaps you could message the seller before buying and ask point blank if the item is authentic with all the appropriate proof?

As for buyers' protection, I remember one incident where the seller sent me a completely different purse than the one I purchased (the seller had actual photos of the purse). She asked me to send it back for a refund and have me eat the shipping cost both ways. Her shipping fee was also very inflated compared to the actual shipping fee, and it was poorly packaged. Since I saw no way of getting my money back, I could only leave a negative feedback to warn other buyers. She emailed me afterwards begging me to change the feedback and that she will give me a full refund. Um... ya. Too little, too late. I'm not sure how it works with sellers. Do you get removed if you've had a certain number of complaints? Anyway, not long after I saw that the seller was no longer registered. Not sure if that was a sign of buyer's protection.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-07-2013

But in the event that you have been sold a fake and had to open up a item not as described case, claiming the item to be a fake, which is ILLEGAL FOLKS, then the seller should have to take sole responsibility for his/her choice too participate in ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.

I understand why having to pay to send back something that you say is counterfeit is upsetting and I know I wouldn't be happy either if I was in the same situation. But the problem is that if a seller had to pay for return shipping just because a buyer "claimed" something was counterfeit, how would ebay know whether or not the item really was legitimate? Should they always assume that the buyer is always right and/or being honest and automatically penalize the seller? Just as some sellers are not honest, there are dishonest buyers too.

There really is not an easy solution. You say that reporting counterfeits doesn't cause ebay to remove the listings. But there again...how do they do know that person reporting the items knows for a fact that the products are counterfeit.They could be wrong or they could be a competitor that is trying to get rid of that seller. When a company that holds the right to a product reports it as counterfeit, ebay does take the listing down right away and the seller is penalized. They trust that the company knows what they are talking about but it would be dangerous to trust everything they are told by any ebayer.

I'm not condoning counterfeits at all but I don't think it is as easy to prevent them as some seem to think it is. Personally, I would be very careful of buying makeup online unless it was from a well known retailer that also has a brick and mortar store. A buyer does have to be very careful what they buy and who they buy it from as anyone can buy name brand makeup from online fake "wholesalers" Google wholesale MAC and you will see sites from China that say they are legitimate but they are not. I don't understand why MAC or other companies don't take these companies down but I am guessing that it is not fast and or easy to get rid of the fake sites and sellers. There are legitimate sellers on ebay that sell name brand make up, purses, jewelry etc but it is a good idea to do some research before buying.

reallynicestamps · ‎02-07-2013

She asked me to send it back for a refund and have me eat the shipping cost both ways. Her shipping fee was also very inflated compared to the actual shipping fee, and it was poorly packaged. Since I saw no way of getting my money back, I could only leave a negative feedback to warn other buyers

Are you at all aware of the Paypal /eBay policies on return for refund? While it is true that the buyer is required to pay return postage (and to use a Delivery Confirmed service) PP will refund the entire original payment. If you are dealing only with the seller, she can negotiate with you to refund minus shipping and a restocking fee or pretty well anything the two of you decide is equitable.

But with PP, the seller cannot keep a restocking fee or the original shipping fee.

*aurora-*-borealis* · ‎02-08-2013

But that would still mean that I would not get the return shipping fees back, right? I would've gotten the short end of the stick in that case also.

Anonymous · ‎02-08-2013

I agree about using the stock photos. I had some bad experience with some sellers that use them and only to find out the boxcover of VHS/DVDs and also books don't match the stock photos. And what worse they didn't disclose any damages, wears etc in their listings.

I didn't use the stock photos myself for years but will use them if they are exactly the same as my items and only for those are brand new items but not for used ones.

pierrelebel · ‎02-08-2013

"But that would still mean that I would not get the return shipping fees back, right?"

That is correct.

Credit card issuers and payment processors have no way to force anyone to pay for the return shipping charge. They can only refund the original transaction.

Basically, nobody - including credit card processors and online payment services - has the legal authority to go into a merchant account to get money that had not been received through a transaction.

A refund of the return shipping charge can only by obtained from the merchant (seller). Most sellers will agree to pay for reasonable return charges if the product was defective or the wrong item was sent. Others will not.

It is worth checking the sellers terms before completing the purchase to ascertain the terms offered by that seller.

i*m-still-here · ‎02-08-2013

Something interesting I just learned and sort of not really on topic, but good to know:

If you fund a transaction in part through paypal funds and in part through other funds such as credit card, then paypal will not refund problem transactions.

So, if you use paypal funds, then use those funds for the entire transaction or not at all.

dipmicro · ‎02-08-2013

If sellers have all the protection, why this seller did not get protected from mentally challenged buyer?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57352627-93/paypal-dispute-ends-in-destruction-of-violin/

salesgroupcanada · ‎02-17-2013

I'm not sure if you head but some Antique Violin dealer had her Violin destroyed as the buyer accused her of selling a fake.

Paypal made him destroy the violin then send the picture to them before he got the money back but it was a legit item from a legit dealer & just some idiot that couldn't tell a WW2 antique violin from the real deal.

That's why you gotta realize they're two side to everything.

You just gotta know "CHINA DOESN'T SELL WHOLESALE BRANDED ITEMS"

Your getting a fake, people need to learn this

salesgroupcanada · ‎02-17-2013

^^^^^

WIZARD - Your thinking the exact same thing I was thinking!

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎02-23-2013

China sells many wholesale branded items. Get your facts straight.

If you mean they don't sell overinflated designer labels, then maybe you have a point.