eBay

gilliankehler · ‎12-12-2015

Hello all, just looking for some input here, I sold a pair of shoes listed as new in box with scuffing on heels from being tried on. Buyer is unhappy and opened a return request with pictures of said scuffing, saying they were significantly not as described and requested a partial refund (total cost $35 with free shipping - she requests $20 back).

Maybe we need to whip out a dictionary here and define "scuffing" to solve this one haha! Either way, buyer and I are in disagreement over the state of the shoes. I'm contemplating letting eBay/Paypal come to a decision? Or is that a bad idea, should I just put the ol' foot in the ol' mouth and refund the woman?

It might be important to note that I, the seller, am in Canada, and she's in the States (I know that affects return labels incase I want to ask her to return them).

So what are my options here?

Thanks in advance 🙂

rose-dee · ‎12-12-2015

I suppose you have to decide whether it's worth all the trouble and ill-will of having a $35 pair of shoes returned, only to end up with a defect for refunding in full, or just pay the $20 the buyer is asking for and write the transaction off.

As you mentioned, the problem with returns from the U.S. will be who pays for shipping and how that is arranged. You won't be able to purchase a label for your buyer to use. So either the buyer has to trust that you'll repay her for the shipping, or you'll have to decide whether to send the buyer the shipping cost in advance and trust that she'll actually ship the item back (not a good idea).

Normally unwanted items should be shipped back with tracking. That will not be cheap for the buyer for a pair of shoes, presumably being shipped in a box. I wouldn't be surprised if the cost will be close to $20, even for USPS. So the buyer will have to pay ca. $20 to send back a $35 pair of shoes. Some sellers refund the buyer's shipping in such cases, some don't. Would you refund her the $20 in shipping? If so, you'd lose that money anyway. (Remember that after all is said and done, the buyer will still be able to leave FB/DSRs, so you have a stake in keeping her happy).

If you balk or delay too much, the buyer may escalate the matter and ask for a full refund. I don't know whether eBay would side with you should that occur. Even if the scuffing was described in the listing, the buyer may claim it was worse than shown/described. Once it comes down to a she said/she said, it's over.

Honestly I think this is a no-win situation. If the item were worth $350 rather than $35, the return might be worth all the trouble and the risk to your seller status. You've sold the item for $35 -- how much of that represents your profit? If you refund the $20 she's asking for, depending on your acquisition cost, you may not be losing anything, and you can just move on. If you're a bit of a risk-taker, and a good negotiator, you could offer $15 and see how she responds.

If I were in this situation, I'd simply apologize to the buyer that she was not completely satisfied with her purchase. I might perhaps nicely explain that given the scuffing was disclosed in the listing, I'd be happy to immediately refund $15 of the purchase price, and ask her to let me know if that would be acceptable.

Remember that you will get a defect for a full refund on an INAD, but not on a partial refund -- at least up until February 20th when the rules on returns/refunds change completely.

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rose-dee · ‎12-12-2015

I suppose you have to decide whether it's worth all the trouble and ill-will of having a $35 pair of shoes returned, only to end up with a defect for refunding in full, or just pay the $20 the buyer is asking for and write the transaction off.

As you mentioned, the problem with returns from the U.S. will be who pays for shipping and how that is arranged. You won't be able to purchase a label for your buyer to use. So either the buyer has to trust that you'll repay her for the shipping, or you'll have to decide whether to send the buyer the shipping cost in advance and trust that she'll actually ship the item back (not a good idea).

Normally unwanted items should be shipped back with tracking. That will not be cheap for the buyer for a pair of shoes, presumably being shipped in a box. I wouldn't be surprised if the cost will be close to $20, even for USPS. So the buyer will have to pay ca. $20 to send back a $35 pair of shoes. Some sellers refund the buyer's shipping in such cases, some don't. Would you refund her the $20 in shipping? If so, you'd lose that money anyway. (Remember that after all is said and done, the buyer will still be able to leave FB/DSRs, so you have a stake in keeping her happy).

If you balk or delay too much, the buyer may escalate the matter and ask for a full refund. I don't know whether eBay would side with you should that occur. Even if the scuffing was described in the listing, the buyer may claim it was worse than shown/described. Once it comes down to a she said/she said, it's over.

Honestly I think this is a no-win situation. If the item were worth $350 rather than $35, the return might be worth all the trouble and the risk to your seller status. You've sold the item for $35 -- how much of that represents your profit? If you refund the $20 she's asking for, depending on your acquisition cost, you may not be losing anything, and you can just move on. If you're a bit of a risk-taker, and a good negotiator, you could offer $15 and see how she responds.

If I were in this situation, I'd simply apologize to the buyer that she was not completely satisfied with her purchase. I might perhaps nicely explain that given the scuffing was disclosed in the listing, I'd be happy to immediately refund $15 of the purchase price, and ask her to let me know if that would be acceptable.

Remember that you will get a defect for a full refund on an INAD, but not on a partial refund -- at least up until February 20th when the rules on returns/refunds change completely.

ricarmic · ‎12-12-2015

You may want to politely remind/mention that the shipping was x$ which means the value of the shoes was x$ and ask if they mind reducing the refund as a result.

This has happened to me in the past as well, I looked in my "form letters" but I can't find any I kept for this situation, and I don't "haggle" the return amounts anymore.

These days I don't respond any way other than to refund. When I do partial refunds I always leave it up to the buyer to decide the refund amount and based on that after I refund:
-if the amount of the refund is reasonable, all is well
-if the amount of the refund is not reasonable, they are blocked.

From what I see here, I would simply refund and block them if this were my situation.

sylviebee · ‎12-12-2015

I would just refund the $20 and apologize for missing the scuffs. In other words, don't challenge your buyer's opinion as to the state of the shoes.

All other options are much more painful.

The last thing you want is a scuffed used pair of shoes back to re-sell that caused you problems the first time around. Right?

dutchman48 · ‎12-12-2015

Sounds like a scammer looking for a partial at your expense.

What is the seller's feedback, are they also a seller, what does feedback left for others look like, does it appear this is a seller as well, report buyer to Ebay, block buyer now.

You need to make a choice if you want to give in to the partial refund scam which is becoming more and more common as buyers know the game, or stick to your principles to return for refund and bite the bullet. Negative feedback in Feb will mean nothing anymore anyway

zee-chan-jpn-books · ‎12-13-2015

I'd simply give the partial refund (the shoes were only $35 so it's not worth my time to argue with the buyer), block the buyer, and believe firmly that karma will strike to these kind of buyers.

femmefan1946 · ‎12-13-2015

How much did the shoes cost you?

How much did shipping cost you?

Is $20 less or more than the money you have put into the sale? (procurement cost+fees+postage)

Is the difference between the demanded refund and your total cost for the shoes worth the possible negative feedback and trashed DSRs?

gilliankehler · ‎12-13-2015

Thanks for the advice all, I hear what ya'll are sayin.

OK here's the breakdown: shipping cost me $20 CAD, so total profit $48 CAD ($35 US) - 20 shipping = $28 - $5 (est fees) = 23. So if I refund her $20 US (27 CAD) I've actually paid $4 to have this happen and made nothing.

I sell my stuff at a bare minimum with free shipping otherwise my stuff just doesn't get noticed or move. I make literally a couple bucks in profit for most of my sales. So when someone tries to get their money back it really effs me over!

In instances like this, selling on ebay really sucks 😞

gilliankehler · ‎12-13-2015

Also the buyer has 138 feedback score with 5 positive feedbacks and nothing else. Ebay member since 2004.

How do you block?

pierrelebel · ‎12-13-2015

"138 feedback score with 5 positive feedbacks and nothing else"

This means that the buyer earned 133 positive feedback in prior years and 5 in the last twelve months. (133 + 5 = 138)

To block buyers and set up buyer requirements, please take a look at:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/buyer-requirements.html

rose-dee · ‎12-13-2015

@sequinsnvelvet wrote:
Thanks for the advice all, I hear what ya'll are sayin.
OK here's the breakdown: shipping cost me $20 CAD, so total profit $48 CAD ($35 US) - 20 shipping = $28 - $5 (est fees) = 23. So if I refund her $20 US (27 CAD) I've actually paid $4 to have this happen and made nothing.
I sell my stuff at a bare minimum with free shipping otherwise my stuff just doesn't get noticed or move. I make literally a couple bucks in profit for most of my sales. So when someone tries to get their money back it really effs me over!

Sometimes the best choice is to just take a small loss and move on, rather than get embroiled in even more potential problems and -- as I mentioned earlier -- get rewarded in the end with a negative/neutral and low DSRs from the buyer for all your trouble. Although these won't count as defects after Feb. 20th, the comments will remain on your FB page.

From what you've described, I wouldn't necessarily conclude the buyer is trying to scam you. She probably didn't read the description, just liked the style and colour and hit the "buy" button.

If your margins are so narrow on these items, I'd say it's hardly worth having the shoes returned, especially since they do have condition issues. You'd be waiting at least 2 or 3 weeks to receive them (remember, it's Christmas/New Year's and mail will slow down), only to make a few dollars' profit on a problematic item?

Also consider the amount of time you spend resolving this matter. At a minimum wage of $12/hr., you've probably already used up much of your future potential profit on this item even if you did get it back.

Frankly I'd either give her the $20 she wants, or offer something a bit less with a very polite explanation ('ricarmic's' suggestion of mentioning the original shipping cost is a good one). But if she balks, be prepared to back down and fork out the $20 rather than get into extended discussion over it, because otherwise you could end up with an open case that, as I said before, you could lose. That sort of defect would stick with you after February 20th.

femmefan1946 · ‎12-13-2015

I sell my stuff at a bare minimum with free shipping otherwise my stuff just doesn't get noticed or move.

Free Shipping means "I put the cost of shipping into my asking price".

That is you want $10 for the item and shipping will be $5, so you ask $15.

Unless you can mark up your purchase at least ten times (that is a $1 purchase can be sold for $10) you cannot make a profit.

Especially a profit that is greater than your time at minimum wage.

Rosedee gives $12 an hour. I usually say 17 cents a minute. Depends on the province.

Is your product suitable for mail order?

Or was this a one off problem?

mr.elmwood · ‎12-13-2015

@femmefan1946 wrote:
I sell my stuff at a bare minimum with free shipping otherwise my stuff just doesn't get noticed or move.

Free Shipping means "I put the cost of shipping into my asking price".
That is you want $10 for the item and shipping will be $5, so you ask $15.

Unless you can mark up your purchase at least ten times (that is a $1 purchase can be sold for $10) you cannot make a profit.
Especially a profit that is greater than your time at minimum wage.
Rosedee gives $12 an hour. I usually say 17 cents a minute. Depends on the province.

Is your product suitable for mail order?
Or was this a one off problem?

I sell things people cannot easily acquire, often, they can't get it at all.

I do not compete with the low price sellers, I compete with the high price sellers.

"Unless you can mark up your purchase at least ten times (that is a $1 purchase can be sold for $10) you cannot make a profit." is very true. I buy for $5 and sell for $100 and even that is cutting it close when you include ALL expenses.

.
.
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gilliankehler · ‎12-14-2015

Most of the stuff I sell on eBay is just my unwanteds, clearing out the closet sort of thing. So if I sold these shoes at 10x what I paid for them they would be the most expensive, overpriced pair of French Connection shoes I've ever heard of at $500 lol.

Most of my items I make maybe a couple bucks on after all the fees and paying for shipping. These shoes were one of the highest profit items I've sold and now it's just a big gaping hole in my pocket 😠

But if I list my items at higher prices, nobody shows any interest in them.

sylviebee · ‎12-14-2015

@mr.elmwood wrote:
"Unless you can mark up your purchase at least ten times (that is a $1 purchase can be sold for $10) you cannot make a profit." is very true. I buy for $5 and sell for $100 and even that is cutting it close when you include ALL expenses.

Whenever I read that comment I want to add qualifiers, and here I go again.

I have a house full of things that I am selling and don't have to declare the income. (added bonus)

Too good to give away but a PITA to sell (relatively speaking).

I'd much rather sell an item for $600 that I bought for $400 than sell10 $20 items that i got for free.

That's only a 50% markup.

femmefan1946 · ‎12-14-2015

stuff I sell on eBay is just my unwanteds, clearing out the closet sort of thing. So if I sold these shoes at 10x what I paid for them

I meant when you buy for resale.

Clearing out the closet/attic/basement is different. The acquistion costs on those is zero, because you already have used up all the value by using them until you don't want them anymore.

Like how all the calories leak out of a broken cookie.