Canada Post shows it's true colours and should be disbanded / privatized

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

Let me start by saying that I am not for or against unions, and don't believe the actions of Canada post are driven solely by unions. 

Further, while I disagree with what they did, I don't really support the privatization because we would end up with a UPS like company that has also perfected how to rob and steal from the the lower volume shippers (read pretty much all of us), so this is pretty much just a rant. 

Just to set up, I have a great relationship (bizness) with our postal lady and I commented a few times about how it was more expensive to ship in canada than to ship to the US. In fact, I can ship cheaper to CA from Nova Scotia than I can ship from one side of Halifax to the other. 

Her explanation was that the Canada side had tracking and that small packets air did not. While I didn't say it to her like this this is.......ABSOLUTE . 

HOW CAN ANY ITEM BE SHIPPED ANYWHERE WITHOUT IT BEING TRACKED. As it goes from location to location, it is sorted and redirected to its appropriate destination. In fact, it is tracked, but the record of its journey is not recorded or viewable. 

You can argue then that is not tracking but really, to me it seems almost the same.....almost.

Now this morning I see that Canada Post has added a barcode to small packet air. WHY???????? Well if I had to take a guess is so that they can use the EXACT SAME equipment to sort and redirect packages that they use for TRACKED shipments. This seems like a very logical extension and unless I am shown it's wrong is the basis of my ire.

If you believe they use the same equipment and then use the same computers, same infrastructure, same system to sort and redirect, then the only difference between tracked and non tracked is that the non tracked is not recorded. BUT... why would you not record the information. Given that all the same system is used, and information is useful, then why not record it. It doesn't cost anything more. 

Wouldn't it be easier to just use the barcode, use the system, keep everything the same as tracked, but simply FILTER OUT the tracking information to the buyer (ie. US). That way you get all the benefits as a corporation but if the buyer wants tracking, well they can shell out an extra $7.50 or practically double for something you are doing anyways. 

This is the rub.

CANADA POST IS BLATANTLY DENYING/FILTERING  INFORMATION THEY HAVE IN ORDER TO CHARGE THE CONSUMER UP TO  DOUBLE AND QUADRUPLE THE COST.

This is why unions, management and monopolies when allowed to run unfettered usually choose sticking it to their users rather than work within a normal competitive environment. 

Anyways, it's a rant, nothing will change, but it's a sad deciision by Canada Post and extremely annoying. Rant off. 

[pierrelebel]

From another post:

Canada Post's annoucement for this Small Packet PayPal shipping label change is:

"Internal-use barcodes added to Small Packet™ services 
Beginning June 17, 2013, Small Packet – USA Air and Small Packet – International Air will contain barcodes. These are for Canada Post internal use only and do not provide tracking capability."

[pierrelebel]

Canada Post's annoucement for this Small Packet PayPal shipping label change is:

"Internal-use barcodes added to Small Packet™ services 
Beginning June 17, 2013, Small Packet – USA Air and Small Packet – International Air will contain barcodes. These are for Canada Post internal use only and do not provide tracking capability."

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

"Internal-use barcodes added to Small Packet™ services 
Beginning June 17, 2013, Small Packet – USA Air and Small Packet – International Air will contain barcodes. These are for Canada Post internal use only and do not provide tracking capability.

If you believe that, well I have a bridge to sell you. The point is not to regurgitate the flimsy excuse that Canada post puts out to cover their actions but to realize that if all the same equipment is being used then they actually can track the items and that the only difference between tracked and not tracked is $$$$ for Canada Post and a filter for you.

Not trying to be harsh, but the point is that this is a deliberate choice Canada Post made to charge almost double for releasing information that they already have. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRACKED AND NOT TRACKED OTHER THAN CANADA POST WON'T RELEASE THAT INFO UNLESS YOU PAY THEM UP TO DOUBLE OR QUADRUPLE THE COST. 

In the old days, when a new system was put in place to make it easier (ie, barcodes for shopping, grocery stores, inventory management etc etc etc. etc) COSTS GO DOWN AND ARE PASSED ON TO THE CONSUMER DUE TO COMPETITION. Because Canada Post does has a monopoly (never mind they are still adept at losing money) they use an increase in efficiency to CHARGE MORE, and then put some BS excuse. 

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

Well, OP, you are dead wrong in all of your assumptions. Unions? You are kidding me. What does that have to do with the USPS and their differrent technology? That is a right wing, got my blinders on, my way rant.

CP does not deliver outside of Canada. so, I don't know where you everything is the same from. It is not the same anything as American equipment is different from Cdn equipment. All countries are different. eBay and Paypal told me that. Paypal sat down with USPS and CP, a few years back, to try to get an integrated system. Couldn't it because they are different.

A bar code is not a bar code. It is simplistic to think that it is. Bar codes are generated by software and read by software. Which postal system should toss out their billions of dollars worth of equipment, spend billions to buy the other country's?

My last employer was upgrading their computer systems to an industry type standard. Ten years and tens of millions of dollars later, it is years behind. That is for one crown corp, in one small province, with a narrow range, that does not interact with other jurisdictions.

200 countries in the world, 200 postal systems, 200 different computer systems.

[marnotom!]

What you may not realize is that Small Packets are considered international air mail.  The Universal Postal Union defines an international letter as weighing less than four kilograms and meeting certain dimensional restrictions.  (The weight limit is lower for items sent to the U.S. because Canada Post and USPS worked out something different on their own, which is permitted by UPU regulations.)

Domestic letters don't have nearly as high a maximum size limit as international letters.  The reason why similarly sized items cost more to send within Canada than outside of Canada is because within Canada they're being sent by parcel post which has a different pricing structure than letter mail.

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

Well, OP, you are dead wrong in all of your assumptions. Unions? You are kidding me. What does that have to do with the USPS and their differrent technology? 

Feel free to re read the post. The POINT of UNIONS, MANAGEMENT, AND MONOPOLY COMBINED mean that Canada Post does not have to compete as a normal company. It has nothing to do with USPS. Only that because they don't have to be competitive as per a normal business, when they have a cost saving measure, they choose not to pass it on.

CP does not deliver outside of Canada. so, I don't know where you everything is the same from

Again, feel free to RE READ the post. The comparison was between US TRACKED PACKET and US SMALL PACKET. Same items, same weights, same 2 postal systems, same everything. BOTH have barcodes both can be tracked. CANADA POST CHOOSES TO HAVE 2 DIFFERENT SERVICES. 

A bar code is not a bar code.

A bar code IS a bar code. ANY BAR CODE READER can read a barcode. Read up a bit on it first., BUT before you go off on a tangent, these 2 BARCODES are both generated by Canada Post to go through USPS (and other systems). Canada Post already stated it is for their use. Why in the world would they make a barcode for US TRACKED PACKET that complies with USPS but not SMALL PACKETS. I can only imagine the story ebay told you about systems not being able to be integrated was either a long time ago or they fed  you a line. The WHOLE idea of the NEW tracked packet is that it IS integrated with numerous countries so that it can be easily tracked. Which is why they brought it out. 

200 countries in the world, 200 postal systems, 200 different computer systems. 

yes, you are right BUT...the point is US Tracked packet and US small packets. BUT as an FYI, from CANADA POST website:

Delivery to addresses and PO boxes in 21 countries including the USA

Now you may say, 'hey, that's an assumption you are making that they use the barcode. Maybe the US doesn't use it...you don't know". Which COULD be true, but really, how do you think the items get sorted now? How does mail with no barcode get sorted? Is it like Miracle on 34th street with a bunch of people looking at each letter and parcel? Or maybe for years they use OCR to detect and sort, but it's not as useful as a ........ BARCODE. So, if USPS, CP, and a couple dozen other countries all decide to use BARCODES to track and ship xpress, expedited, tracked packet etc..... why would they keep on with the old system but introduce a new barcode that is for some 'internal use' and they continue using the older less reliable system for small packet? The answer is, they wouldn't. If they have a barcode system for all their packages, then they will use it for all their packages. This idea that it's 'just for internal use' is an excuse. 

I will restate the statement in summary so it doesn't get lost. Again, it's just a rant and most people won't do anything about it, but..... THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRACKED (US TRACKED PACKET) AND NOT TRACKED (US SMALL PACKET) OTHER THAN CANADA POST WON'T RELEASE THAT INFO UNLESS YOU PAY THEM UP TO DOUBLE OR QUADRUPLE THE COST.

[toff3]

Now just a minute, Marno.

Small Packets are considered international air mail.

Canada Post also considers some of them international surface mail.

The Universal Postal Union defines an international letter as weighing less than four kilograms

You mean two kilograms or less.

The weight limit is lower for items sent to the U.S. because Canada Post and USPS worked out something different on their own, which is permitted by UPU regulations

Now there's an interesting theory. Where d'you hear that? What did USPS get out of that deal?

The reason why similarly sized items cost more to send within Canada than outside of Canada is because within Canada they're being sent by parcel post which has a different pricing structure than letter mail.

So? The only reason I can think of for this anomaly is that CP makes more money off it.

Tom

[toff3]

And I might add that Tracked Packet and Light Packet are nothing more than blatant money grabs by Canada Post.

Tom

[cumos55]

The new postal facility in Winnipeg has become the standard for the building  of new facilities and upgrading  of facilities across Canada.

Parcels come in one end  and leave via the other end with very little handling by people in between

Adding some form of code  to Small Packet would aid in directing a Small Packet to a destination within the postal facility.....

If you checked you would find that all other parcel options  offered by Canada Post  have a barcode....  and can be followed to a destination within a handling facility

The fact that Small Packet  with a code does not track outside of Canada is inconsequential as there already is a tracked option...  Tracked Packet  for delivery to the US and elsewhere....

Final conclusion...

Canada Post is being progressive in finding ways to automate a system  and reducing the amount of monitoring required by actual postal personnel...   and it might speed up the progress of Small Packet to its ultimate destination..

[femmefan1946]

A bar code is not a bar code

I was in the hardware store today buying a clothes drying rack, and turned it so the cashier could scan the bar code. She laughed and had me turn the rack around because the barcode I was presenting was not readable by her cash register-- it was the code for the warehouse inventory system. The cash register bar code was on the other side.

Just because you can see a barcode on an item, doesn't mean that it can be used for the purpose you want it to for.

[recped]

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froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote: Because Canada Post does has a monopoly

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Canada Post has a monopoly on First Class Letters under 50 grams mailed within Canada to Canadian addresses. Other than that it a totally open market.

There are plenty of alternatives to Canada Post for package delivery within Canada and especially Internationally. If you find Canada Post so bad then don't use them.

[toff3]

There are plenty of alternatives to Canada Post for package delivery within Canada and especially Internationally. If you find Canada Post so bad then don't use them.

Come off it, Recped!

Tom

[recped]

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@toff3 wrote:

There are plenty of alternatives to Canada Post for package delivery within Canada and especially Internationally. If you find Canada Post so bad then don't use them.

Come off it, Recped!

Tom

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Come off what? I'm paying less for International delivery by Air than you are paying for Canada Post Surface. If you live in the middle of nowhere and/or only ship a couple of packages a week your options may be limited but even at my pitiful volume I have no trouble finding alternatives to Canada Post.

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

The new Winnipeg PO building is more than that. They had the huge, inefficient, building downtown which they sold. Took the money and built a super efficient state of the art facility right next to the airport terminal. Blocks from a major east west highway connection and a major north south route.

They sold the Vancouver mail sort building for a profit of $109 million. It took up an entire city block just as the Winnipeg building did.

They upgraded, saved money, increased efficiency. Light years ahead of where the USPS is.

[cumos55]

The old PO Building in Winnipeg ....has been ....is being ... renovated  and will soon become our new Central Police Station....

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

That was a smart move. The old building is falling down, under sized, poor access for the public, in an unsafe are go figure.

[dipmicro]

There are plenty of alternatives to Canada Post for package delivery within Canada and especially Internationally. If you find Canada Post so bad then don't use them.

there is not that many alternatives, actually.

inuk_the_polar_bear wrote:

They sold the Vancouver mail sort building for a profit of $109 million. It took up an entire city block just as the Winnipeg building did. They upgraded, saved money, increased efficiency. Light years ahead of where the USPS is.

Let post give offer fully tracked First Class Mail Parcel starting at $1.65 for first 3 oz that takes 2-3 days (and moves on the weekends) from Toronto to Vancouver/Calgary/St.John/Halifax and I may consider them on par.

[cumos55]

I may consider them on par.

USPS Is a money losing operation......

Canada Post is a self-sustaining Crown Corporation, owned by the people of Canada, pays dividends and taxes.... 

Canada Post servers a country that is larger than Russia  and does not lose money doing so.....

USPS and Canada Post could never be considered "on par"... until the USPS becomes the same type of corporation as Canada Post...

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Something of note.....

I live in Winnipeg at about the centre of Canada.

Using Canada Post  I can ship a parcel weighing more than m 0.75 and less than  1.0 kg  From Winnipeg to Victoria  for the same cost as it is from Winnipeg to Halifax.... 

and then  someone can ship that very same parcel from Victoria  to Halifax for that very same cost...

Canada Post has made an effort to equalize the cost  of shipping across Canada....  The basic cost  for shipping this parcel   is about $10 per parcel for shipping anywhere inside Canada.... that is for shipping a parcel within Winnipeg, or any other large city in Canada...

There is no major shipping cost differential  unless one ships to the remote areas within Canada....  such as in British Columbia, Newfoundland/Labrador  and Nunavut... All shipping to Nunavut is airmail delivery.

Many countries worldwide look at Canada Post as a standard of how a postal service should be run... and that includes  the USPS....

[toff3]

Canada Post servers a country that is larger than Russia  and does not lose money doing so

And what have you been smoking, Cumos?

Size of Russia in sq km: just over 17 million. Size of Canada: just under 10 million sq km.

And Canada Post doesn't lose money??! Hey Deepak, your worries are over. Cumos55 in Winnipeg has just determined that you're not, after all, losing money.

Cumos, do us all a favour and read CP's annual reports for 2012 and 2011 and then do a bit of research on Google and find out more about those alleged "profits" in earlier years.

 Many countries worldwide look at Canada Post as a standard of how a postal service should be run

I sure hope to God that that isn't true either.

Tom

[toff3]

Recped,

You've never heard the expression "come off it!"? How about "pull the other one!"?

No? Never mind, Dipmicro and I are both on tenterhooks (know that expression?) waiting to hear exactly what those alternatives to Canada Post's International mail services are.

Seriously.

Tom