Canada Post shows it's true colours and should be disbanded / privatized

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

Let me start by saying that I am not for or against unions, and don't believe the actions of Canada post are driven solely by unions. 

Further, while I disagree with what they did, I don't really support the privatization because we would end up with a UPS like company that has also perfected how to rob and steal from the the lower volume shippers (read pretty much all of us), so this is pretty much just a rant. 

Just to set up, I have a great relationship (bizness) with our postal lady and I commented a few times about how it was more expensive to ship in canada than to ship to the US. In fact, I can ship cheaper to CA from Nova Scotia than I can ship from one side of Halifax to the other. 

Her explanation was that the Canada side had tracking and that small packets air did not. While I didn't say it to her like this this is.......ABSOLUTE . 

HOW CAN ANY ITEM BE SHIPPED ANYWHERE WITHOUT IT BEING TRACKED. As it goes from location to location, it is sorted and redirected to its appropriate destination. In fact, it is tracked, but the record of its journey is not recorded or viewable. 

You can argue then that is not tracking but really, to me it seems almost the same.....almost.

Now this morning I see that Canada Post has added a barcode to small packet air. WHY???????? Well if I had to take a guess is so that they can use the EXACT SAME equipment to sort and redirect packages that they use for TRACKED shipments. This seems like a very logical extension and unless I am shown it's wrong is the basis of my ire.

If you believe they use the same equipment and then use the same computers, same infrastructure, same system to sort and redirect, then the only difference between tracked and non tracked is that the non tracked is not recorded. BUT... why would you not record the information. Given that all the same system is used, and information is useful, then why not record it. It doesn't cost anything more. 

Wouldn't it be easier to just use the barcode, use the system, keep everything the same as tracked, but simply FILTER OUT the tracking information to the buyer (ie. US). That way you get all the benefits as a corporation but if the buyer wants tracking, well they can shell out an extra $7.50 or practically double for something you are doing anyways. 

This is the rub.

CANADA POST IS BLATANTLY DENYING/FILTERING  INFORMATION THEY HAVE IN ORDER TO CHARGE THE CONSUMER UP TO  DOUBLE AND QUADRUPLE THE COST.

This is why unions, management and monopolies when allowed to run unfettered usually choose sticking it to their users rather than work within a normal competitive environment. 

Anyways, it's a rant, nothing will change, but it's a sad deciision by Canada Post and extremely annoying. Rant off. 

[marnotom!]

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@toff3 wrote:

Now just a minute, Marno.

Small Packets are considered international air mail.

Canada Post also considers some of them international surface mail.

The Universal Postal Union defines an international letter as weighing less than four kilograms

You mean two kilograms or less.

The weight limit is lower for items sent to the U.S. because Canada Post and USPS worked out something different on their own, which is permitted by UPU regulations

Now there's an interesting theory. Where d'you hear that? What did USPS get out of that deal?

The reason why similarly sized items cost more to send within Canada than outside of Canada is because within Canada they're being sent by parcel post which has a different pricing structure than letter mail.

So? The only reason I can think of for this anomaly is that CP makes more money off it.

Tom

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Yup, my bads.  Obviously, I've been hanging out too much with the 'mericans on the .com site's International Trading Board in the land where pounds are still an official unit of mass and surface mail is a thing of the past.  (Hey, that almost rhymes!)

Not sure why you're questioning why the mass limit on small packets to the U.S. doesn't follow the UPU standard.  As I said, there's a mechanism in UPU regulations that allows deals to be made between postal services.  I can't see why there'd be anything underhanded about how this lower mass limit came about for Canada Post, which is what your post seems to be implying.  As for what USPS gets out of the deal, I would imagine a few more bucks as I suspect the "cut" of an international parcel is greater than that of an international letter.

As for Canada Post charging more for a domestic parcel versus an equivalent sized international letter (i.e. small packet or similar), you'll likely find that price discrepancies like these are pretty common for many postal services that have services that don't have to adhere to UPS standards.   It doesn't make it fair, of course, but it is what it is.

You may not be aware of this, but with the last round of USPS changes, it now costs a lot more to mail a small First Class International package than a First Class International letter of the same mass.  Prior to that, the prices were more or less the same.  USPS now seems to be playing the same game Canada Post is with international letters and light packets.  Again, doesn't make it necessarily fair to the end user, but it is what it is.

[dipmicro]

Canada Post servers a country that is larger than Russia  and does not lose money doing so.....

Urban legends still going strong. Post does not reasonably cover entire country, rural folks have community mailboxes and some have to drive over 100km to get their mail. Most of Canadians lives in megacities and their suburbs. I would say that over 90% of Canadians reside on less than 1% of Canada.

Both posts loose money because they are overstaffed with employees they cannot afford.

[toff3]

Marno,

As to the question of why the weight limit for Small Packets is 1 kg  to USA (and 2 kg to everywhere else), I don't think there's anything underhanded about it. it's simply a revenue-generating ploy on the part of Canada Post, all part of CP's plan to increase the cost of mailing to USA any way they can. Slowly they've tightened the screws. First, zonal postal pricing to the US (AFAIK unheard of between two sovereign nations anywhere else in the world), then obliging their customers to use the expensive Expedited Parcel service for all parcels weighing > 1 kg, and now removing surface mail service to the US and base liability coverage from the Small Packet service. All this, of course, on top of the annual rate increases.

Of course I'm aware of the price and service changes (particularly as regards the First-Class Package International service) the USPS implemented in January, which caused conniptions among US eBayers. For items weighing < 250 g, Canada Post rates are, in many cases, lower than the USPS's. It's only in the 500 g - 2 kg range that CP rates head south and air rates are double or nearly double the USPS's and at some weights the CP surface rate is not that far off the USPS air rate. Also, the USPS rate structure is much fairer than CP's, in that rates go up in 4-oz (approx. 112 g) steps, rather than CP's 250 g or 500 g steps. Plus it's a lot simpler, with effectively just four zones for FCPI: Canada, Mexico,  Zones 3-5, and Zones 6-9.

Tom 

[marnotom!]

There's apparently a rather complicated formula that's used between postal services to determine how much the receiving postal service receives from mail originating from another postal service.  I think it's a bit disingenous to assume that the Small Packet threshold for mail to the U.S. and the zonal pricing for mail to the United States is strictly for the benefit of Canada Post's coffers.

[toff3]

There's apparently a rather complicated formula that's used between postal services to determine how much the receiving postal service receives from mail originating from another postal service. 

Yes, the infamous terminal dues.

I think it's a bit disingenous to assume that the Small Packet threshold for mail to the U.S. and the zonal pricing for mail to the United States is strictly for the benefit of Canada Post's coffers.

I admit I'm guessing but, in the absence of a better explanation (unless you have one, Marno), I'll stick to my theory.

In any case, Canada Post, by not offering its customers the lowest possible postage rates, is not looking out for its customers.

Tom 

[cumos55]

How can one justify  the cost of postage going down

IF

The Price of Gasoline  and everything else keeps going up?

[dipmicro]

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@cumos55 wrote:

How can one justify  the cost of postage going down

IF

The Price of Gasoline  and everything else keeps going up?

---

Dear CanadaPost Customers.

this may come as a shock to you, but we have decided to rip you less and lower the parcel rates to half *

Management

* new customers only. Existing customers keep paying through their ears.

[toff3]

Cumos,

By "lowest possible postage rates" I meant giving us Canadians breaks such as surface mail to USA, regular parcel post to USA , a Small Packet weight limit of 2 kg to USA, elimination of the Light Packet (and including it in O/S Letter-post), and a domestic Small Packet service. By all means keep airmail, Expedited Parcel - USA, etc. but make them optional for those that need them.

Tom

[tobyshitzu]

Royal Mail to be privatized by the end of the year
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23249466

Hopefully Canada will get on board with the rest of the world

[pierrelebel]

Business Secretary Vince Cable said employees would be given 10% of shares as part of a stock market flotation.

He described it as "the biggest employee share scheme for nearly 30 years".

Unions have reacted angrily to the plans and have threatened to ballot for strike action.

OK - Let me get that straight.  The company (Royal Mail) offers to give employess 10% of the business for FREE and the union wants to strike?

Logical? 

"It will not include the Post Office, which is a now a separate company."

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/ 

[pierrelebel]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22973480 

[pierrelebel]

Before "celebrating" the privatization of the Royal Mail, it is important to understand the difference between the Royal Mail and the (British) Post Offices Ltd.

Royal Mail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Mail 

"Royal Mail was not privatised in the 1980s or 1990s, and currently remains a state-owned company. However the Postal Services Act 2011 enables the government to privatise up to 90% of Royal Mail, with 10% being held by Royal Mail employees. The first sale of shares is expected in late 2013 or early 2014. The Act makes provision for Post Office Ltd. to continue to be owned by the Crown or a mutual ownership structure."

Now, what is Post Office Ltd?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Ltd 

There are currently around 12,000 Post Office branches across the UK, of which 373 are directly managed by Post Office Ltd (known as Crown Offices). The majority of other branches are either run by various franchise partners or local subpostmaster or operators (who may be members of the National Federation of SubPostmasters or the CWU Postmasters Branch), as "sub-postoffices".

Just wonder how they could divide Canada Post in Canada ?

[tobyshitzu]

We dont have anything like the post office to divide.  Its like our retail post offices/service canada and provincial offices for driver licenses etc and some things that are completely pivate here all rolled into one retail outlet.  The mail part is just like what CP uses  shoppers drugmart etc here..

The mail like canada post is being privatized  

[sixscale]

The changes to the barcode system were made to the the high incidence of fraudulent use of mailing labels being used for multiple shipments. Unfortunately it would appear they had a high percentage of Canadians scamming the system. At first they were just checking people's accounts to make sure they were up to date on charges through their EST, now they are tracking every label, starting with small packet, to prevent fraud.

What every Canadian should be shouting up and down about is the hugely disproportional discounts given to big box Canadian retailers. If you guys were aware of the discounts and the rates being given you'd be outraged. Bear in mind while these guys do ship numerous packages, Canada post only represents a fraction of overall mail volume for most retailers (Purolator and UPS have the majority), and the collective volume of small businesses far exceeds that of any all big box retailers combined. Canada Post drops their shorts hugely on any international shipments for retailers as they are desperate for more international volume. Ironically they make individuals pay through the nose for it, which greatly reduces volumes. If you don't think they are making significant margins on international parcel/small packet then you are misinformed. 

Being a crown corporation they should be concenred about the domestic economy, which only suffers when any ability to exports is handicapped by uncompetitive international rates and/or services. This results in a direct reduction of domestic spending. It's not hard to see why China has made the agreements they have with other foreign post offices.