Disputes /Managed Payments/ ApplePay/GooglePay

[femmefan1946]

I understand that one of the benefits of Managed Payments is that the customer can use ApplePay or GooglePay as well as a credit card or Paypal to make an anonymized payment.

But what happens when things go pearshaped?

If there is a Dispute that is taken to PP, we're pretty clear on how it works out.

• The buyer pays for returning the unwanted item and is refunded.

And if  a credit card is used directly by a customer, it is processed by Paypal.

• And  it is the PP process that the seller works with, not the credit card.

But does anyone know yet what happens in a Dispute with Managed Payments?

• Is there an extended Dispute period, like PP's 180 days from payment or is the customer constrained to 30 days from delivery?
• If the customer used a card, is there any extended dispute period?
• If the customer used GP or AP, new payment systems for eBay, what is their Dispute period?

And of course who pays return shipping and under what conditions? (damage, remorse, wrong item)

I can live with refunds on bad transactions, those are going to be few and far between but there are going to be posts from confused buyers very soon.

[recped]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

I understand that one of the benefits of Managed Payments is that the customer can use ApplePay or GooglePay as well as a credit card or Paypal to make an anonymized payment.

But what happens when things go pearshaped?

If there is a Dispute that is taken to PP, we're pretty clear on how it works out.

• The buyer pays for returning the unwanted item and is refunded.

And if  a credit card is used directly by a customer, it is processed by Paypal.

• And  it is the PP process that the seller works with, not the credit card.

But does anyone know yet what happens in a Dispute with Managed Payments?

• Is there an extended Dispute period, like PP's 180 days from payment or is the customer constrained to 30 days from delivery?
• If the customer used a card, is there any extended dispute period?
• If the customer used GP or AP, new payment systems for eBay, what is their Dispute period?

And of course who pays return shipping and under what conditions? (damage, remorse, wrong item)

I can live with refunds on bad transactions, those are going to be few and far between but there are going to be posts from confused buyers very soon.

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There is no specific (180 day) period that I recall seeing in the MP agreement.

Any payment made through MP that uses a credit card will be subject to the chargeback policies of the card issuer. In most cases this can be in the 180 day range. While most CC companies offer protection for  two billing periods the truth is they will accept chargebacks from cardholders for much longer (Amex can be up to one year).

Most payment using Google Pay or Apple Pay are backed by a credit card so those CC rules will apply. The only exceptions are the same as they are today, payments from a PayPal balance or Bank Account don't have chargeback rights and are limited to the 30 day period eBay allows for a regular MBG claim.

One big difference, PayPal offered 180 days seller protection against claims for Unauthorized Use and made it VERY easy for a seller to win. MP does not offer the same protection, if you do get an Unauthorized Use claim through MP it appears as if it will be an automatic loss for Sellers.

I can live with refunds on bad transactions, those are going to be few and far between but there are going to be posts from confused buyers very soon.

Nothing is changing for BUYERS, the confusion will be with SELLERS who may think the old rules apply.

Buyers will still have 30 days to open a MBG claim, after that time they can go to their credit card.

[hlmacdon]

On their merchant offering, Adyen offers protection as long as the merchant handles the correct AVS and 3d secure (where available) verification and liability shifts back to the card issuer. Since ebay is the one handling this via their Adyen integration, it is pretty **bleep**py if they are going to give carte blanche to buyers to abuse unauthorized transactions.

[femmefan1946]

Adyen offers protection as long as the merchant handles the correct AVS and 3d secure (where available) verification and liability shifts back to the card issuer.

Umm... AVS??

3d secure verification??

What do those terms mean?

And if the merchant is enrolled in MP does that mean she has handled them through MP?

And if not, how does she do that?

I really appreciate your grasp of business at a much higher level than I have ever worked at.
My own background (mostly public service) means I spent a lot of time translating workplace jargon into plain English or French for confused citizens.

Now I am the confused citizen.

[kawartha-ephemera]

I'm not familiar with the jargon either but I imagine one of the 2 terms refers to the 3 digit number found on the back of cards.  I've noticed more and more often, almost universally now, whenever I use my credit card in situations where a physical terminal is not available I must provide that 3 digiit number on the back. This occurs when using the card over the phone and online too ... same info is required whenever I use my cc for in-home payments like a contractor  or repair person, they are standing right beside me (2 m rule in effect) but they still note that 3 digit number on the back. 

[hlmacdon]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

Adyen offers protection as long as the merchant handles the correct AVS and 3d secure (where available) verification and liability shifts back to the card issuer.

Umm... AVS??

3d secure verification??

What do those terms mean?

Different forms of automated security checks when credit cards are processed. When you get the spinny wheels on your screen that is part of what is happening in the background. Think of them as additional checks like a CVV, which is the security digits on the reverse of your card.

AVS = Address Verification System. Essentially making sure billing addresses match by checking against the records of the card issuer. This is the most common.

3d secure = A further security layer that redirects the buyer during check out to a card issuer security check as an additional layer of verification. If you have seen the Verified By Visa screen during the checkout process you'll be familiar with this. Implementations of this and availability will vary by region, but for Europe it is mandatory.

As sellers here we aren't processing payments ourselves but rather using a payment processor that handles that through their own gateway. Whether that be Paypal or Adyen, they handle all the verification and security checks ( a mix of industry standard as well as their own crafted fraud prevention checks) on their end in conjunction with whatever ebay does and we see none of the card details on our side that can be used to verify the legitimacy of the transaction, just an end shipping address. The user stores or provides their credit card information with or to the payment processor rather than providing that to us. 

Paypal covers us for unauthorized charges where we can demonstrate the item was shipped to the address on the transaction as they are the ones handling the card verification as we are ultimately using their payment gateway. That information combined with their own verification checks get submitted to the issuer when there is a dispute. If paypal failed on the verification side, they cover it. With that said their has been an increasing push by payment processors to further monetize, and chargeback protection is one of the things they have been pushing for as a paid service or insurance option if you will.

[reallynicestamps]

"Spinny wheels" is right at my level of techspeak!  Thanks again.

I love it when someone can actually explain things so I understand them.

When my niece explained her PhD thesis to me and I understood it for about five minutes, I knew she was brilliant. It had something to do with nickel foam and how it can be used in batteries.  Kids these days.

[recped]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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Paypal covers us for unauthorized charges where we can demonstrate the item was shipped to the address on the transaction as they are the ones handling the card verification as we are ultimately using their payment gateway. That information combined with their own verification checks get submitted to the issuer when there is a dispute. If paypal failed on the verification side, they cover it. With that said their has been an increasing push by payment processors to further monetize, and chargeback protection is one of the things they have been pushing for as a paid service or insurance option if you will.

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I'm guessing that PayPal's very generous protections for Unauthorized Use are going away with Managed Payments.

That said I've long suspected that the primary reason PayPal offered these protections was due to a lack of security on their own end. I hope (and expect) Adyen will do a much better job at screening credit card useage.

Like most things about all the forms of "seller protection" ask yourself how many times you have actually made use of it. I know for myself in 21 years I've had 2 Unauthorized Use claims and one case of an INR where I had tracking showing delivery. That means I've utilized protection 0.0006% of the time and 99.9994% of the time I have not needed it.

[pjcdn2005]

If I’m reading this correctly MP will  require proof of delivery (vs proof or shipping or delivery now required by PP) In order to provide seller protection for  cc unauthorized use claims.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799

If the transaction is eligible for protection, we’ll cover the amount of the dispute, and waive the fee in the following situations:

When a buyer reports that they don’t recognize the transaction:

You have provided proof of delivery, which includes the following:

• Tracking number provided by the shipping company (uploaded by the date in the payment dispute notification)
• A delivery status of "delivered"
• Date of delivery
• Recipient's address, matching the address on the order (including the city, county, zip code or international equivalent)
• Proof of signature confirmation if an order has a total cost (including shipping and taxes) of $750 or more, uploaded as an image while contesting the payment dispute