How to deal with buyers asking for multiple partial refunds (URGENT - NEED ADVICE)

[vip-marketplace]

Hi guys! I just started an eBay business / shop ~3 weeks ago.

I’ve already had a few unpleasing buyers but this guy tops them all.

So… I sold a fully functional used GPS with all its original accessories.

2 weeks later, I get a message from the buyer stating the package was “half opened” and missing a specific cable.

I know for a fact that the said cable was in the box when I shipped the GPS but this isn’t even the issue. I have to give the buyer the benefit of the doubt since it actually “possible” that the box got opened during the shipping and that it slipped out of the box.

What’s bugging me is the buyer’s attitude. I reproduced (NOT COPY PASTE DON’T DELETE MY THREAD!!!) the conversation I’ve had with the buyer so you can see for yourself (please read conversation below).

Now, as I said, I’m new to selling on eBay.I would appreciate it GREALTY if anyone could provide some advice on how to deal with this kind of situation.

Just how much **bleep** I’m I expected by eBay to accept and still say “Thank you!” / “Sorry!” ?

Had I reported the buyer after he asked for the second partial refund, would they have sided with me?

What percentage of my sales should I expect to go like this? From personal experience it’s starting to look like 30% but I’m really hoping it’s just been a string of bad luck…

Is there anything I could have said/done differently that would have yielded better results for me? (i.e. not 2 partial refund and still the possibility of getting a negative feedback)

Dear ggmalkavian,

there was no Vehicle power cable in the box
the box was half open when it arrived but i don't think it was fully opened

- BUYER

Dear BUYER, Hi BUYER, Honestly, at first I thought you were just another buyer trying to fish for a partial refund or something like that. But looking at your perfect feedback score, it's more likely that someone opened the package or that I didn't seal the package enough like an idiot and that the package opened itself during the transport... letting the car charger through the box. Honestly, I just started this shop (like 3 weeks ago) and don't have much experience. Actually loss a few bucks on this particular sale so having this on top doesn't making better. To make it right I could refund you the price: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/C114-Car-Vehicle-Power-Charger-Adapter-For-Garmin-GPS-Nuvi-40-T-M-40LM-T-40LT... Let me know what you think. - ggmalkavian Dear ggmalkavian, the price of the charger plus shipping because I need to order one then it sounds good to me you can refund me through paypal - BUYER Dear ggmalkavian, this is turning into a terribly complicated time wasting problem as I see you refunded the cost of the item but no added shipping costs how about an additional $5.00 for my efforts to correct this problem and put this to an end - BUYER Dear BUYER, The item is free shipping... Maybe I copy-pasted the wrong link : http://www.ebay.ca/itm/C114-Car-Vehicle-Power-Charger-Adapter-For-Garmin-GPS-Nuvi-40-T-M-40LM-T-40LT... - ggmalkavian Dear ggmalkavian, I copied the link and it has a shipping cost just rebate me $5.00 and get this over with If I don't get satisfactory results I will give you negative feedback which will hurt a new client to ebay It was your mistake not mine so lets end the ordeal now this is the last message I am doing don't have the any more time to deal with it - BUYER

Dear BUYER, Hi BUYER, Thanks! I was afraid this would turn into a terribly complicated time wasting problem but you're of great making it simpler. I have just issued you the required amount for charger + shipping (see your PayPal account). I honestly appreciate you indulgence and hope you will be satisfied by how I managed the problem. Sorry for my English btw. Have a great day! - ggmalkavian

Dear BUYER,

I'm really sorry about all this.

I have issued you a second partial refund of 5 more USD$.

Have a great day BUYER!

- ggmalkavian

[ricarmic]

This will get deleted again, we aren't allowed to put actual buyer comments etc in the forums........

[vip-marketplace]

This isn't the actual conversation.

I composed those messages myself based on what I remember was said in our exchanges.

I never named the buyer's name/ID so I don't see what harm this could to to him anyway.

[rose-dee]

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@vip-marketplace wrote:

(1)  Just how much **bleep** I’m I expected by eBay to accept and still say “Thank you!” / “Sorry!” ?

(2)  Had I reported the buyer after he asked for the second partial refund, would they have sided with me?

(3)  What percentage of my sales should I expect to go like this? From personal experience it’s starting to look like 30% but I’m really hoping it’s just been a string of bad luck…

(4)  Is there anything I could have said/done differently that would have yielded better results for me? (i.e. not 2 partial refund and still the possibility of getting a negative feedback)

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I'll give you my opinions to your questions in the order above.  Other sellers will probably have different views, but these are mine:

1)  The truth?  Just about all of the **bleep**.  The maxim "the customer is always right" applies even more critically on eBay, where every communication with buyers has the potential to impact your seller status (through the new defect system).  If you were selling from your own website or B&M store, you might decide a particular customer wasn't worth having anymore and give him a piece of your mind.  Here, eBay determines who gets to keep selling, and the balance favours the buyer.  That wasn't always the case years ago, but the pendulum has swung the other way. 

2)  Well, there's a slim chance eBay might see the buyer's behaviour as feedback extortion, but I rather doubt it.  As a customer, he's entitled to say he'll leave negative FB if he's not satisfied.  Since he believed he was right about the $5 shipping, he thought he should ask for all his money back. 

3)   That part is up to you.  You may need (as you mention) to change the way you pack items to prevent the possibility of damage or loss.  You have to pack parcels carefully enough to sustain being thrown several feet and having other, heavier items landing on top during sorting and loading/unloading at postal facilities and airports.  Also remember that as a seller, eBay says you are responsible up to the point the item is in your buyer's hands.  You may be able to insure to protect yourself, but eBay says the buyer is entitled to look to you for satisfaction. 

4)  Yes, there are things you could have done differently.  Telling the buyer that you thought he was "just another buyer fishing for a refund" was a personal insult, whether or not you mentioned his perfect FB score afterward.  That started things off badly, and you really didn't need to say any of it. 

Almost all of the rest of your first message to the buyer was unnecessary.  Keep it professional -- the buyer doesn't need to know your personal circumstances, nor is he likely interested in theories about what happened.  If a buyer contacted me to say a piece was missing,  I would send a message such as: 

"I'm so sorry this has happened.  Although the part was included in the parcel when I shipped it, I would be happy to refund you the price of the missing charger through Paypal.  My eBay record shows there was no shipping charged to you on this transaction, so the refund will be the value of the charger, i.e. $________.  Please confirm this is acceptable, and I'll immediately process the refund.  I appreciate your business, and hope you'll accept my sincere apologies."

I think if you'd left it at that he may not have felt emboldened to demand the extra $5.00, and he may have felt well enough treated to be satisfied with the transaction.  However, if he had insisted on the shipping refund, I wouldn't have argued with him over $5.00.  I would just have given him the second partial refund.  Even if you knew he was wrong, he thought he was right, which is what mattered.

*********************

In summary, as a smaller seller on eBay, you have to decide whether you're willing to risk your seller status over a relatively minor amount of money.  If you're thinking that selling on eBay can be tough, you're right.  However, you should evaluate whether there are things you can do at your end to prevent issues from occurring in the first place.  Asking questions here was a good place to start (even if you may not like what you hear from other sellers). 

My own view is that there aren't as many scamming buyers out there as some sellers seem to think.  Many sellers set off a chain reaction by forgetting to keep messages factual, to the point, friendly, and professional at all times, then blame buyers for the outcome.  This isn't a way to keep selling on eBay.

I do wish you best of luck in your future sales!

[fatdane]

Simply tell the buyer that if he/she/it is not happy with the item return it for a full refund. Any further buyer  request for partial refunds etc should just be replied to with a simple "Please return item for a full refund". Debating partial refunds, who did what and when to the parcel that you shipped, etc just waste time, something we never have enough of.

[mr.elmwood]

As Rose alluded to, this is all on you. Never, ever, get in a discussion with a customer. That is a huge mistake.

Only ever use three words: "Return for refund".

[vip-marketplace]

Thanks for all the advices so far!

Those are all extremely valuable information and I'm so glad I took the time to post this!

Regarding the "Return for refund" suggestion, there are a few things I'd like to clarify :

I assume I shouldn't be so direct as to simply reply "Return for refund"? Should I apologise and say I look forward to make them happy etc. etc. (even though it makes me wanna puke)?

Should I specify somewhere in my listings that, in the event of a problem with the item (not as described, not functional, etc.), I will grant a full refund including shipping fees? (Would I get the extra benefit of increased sales or would the impact be marginal? J J )

Also, should I add some sort off return policy in my listing describing this (I assume so)? I don't even know if I currently have one atm... Should I make it something like "If item is not as described, I will issue a full refund upon return"? Should I include something about satisfaction guaranteed or money back or is it too large and subject to abuse?

Am I expected to refund the price of the item + original shipping (I assume so too) PLUS the funds required to ship the item back to me?

Will eBay refund me the giganormous final fees they charged me?

Will I be protected from a negative feedback if I provide the buyer with a full refund?

In the event I get a negative feedback, will eBay side with me if I show them the full amount was refunded and point out my return policy?

Would someone be nice enough to provide me with a good return policy template I could use for my listing? (Sorry if this isn’t appropriate to ask… but my English is outrageous and I’m always somewhat nervous to make myself look like some scamming seller from China because of silly English grammar/vocabulary mistake)

I know I'm asking a lot of questions... if you can provide some input on just one of these I will be extremely happy!

[mr.elmwood]

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@vip-marketplace wrote:

Thanks for all the advices so far!

Those are all extremely valuable information and I'm so glad I took the time to post this!

Regarding the "Return for refund" suggestion, there are a few things I'd like to clarify :

I assume I shouldn't be so direct as to simply reply "Return for refund"? Should I apologise and say I look forward to make them happy etc. etc. (even though it makes me wanna puke)?

Should I specify somewhere in my listings that, in the event of a problem with the item (not as described, not functional, etc.), I will grant a full refund including shipping fees? (Would I get the extra benefit of increased sales or would the impact be marginal? J J )

Also, should I add some sort off return policy in my listing describing this (I assume so)? I don't even know if I currently have one atm... Should I make it something like "If item is not as described, I will issue a full refund upon return"? Should I include something about satisfaction guaranteed or money back or is it too large and subject to abuse?

Am I expected to refund the price of the item + original shipping (I assume so too) PLUS the funds required to ship the item back to me?

Will eBay refund me the giganormous final fees they charged me?

Will I be protected from a negative feedback if I provide the buyer with a full refund?

In the event I get a negative feedback, will eBay side with me if I show them the full amount was refunded and point out my return policy?

Would someone be nice enough to provide me with a good return policy template I could use for my listing? (Sorry if this isn’t appropriate to ask… but my English is outrageous and I’m always somewhat nervous to make myself look like some scamming seller from China because of silly English grammar/vocabulary mistake)

I know I'm asking a lot of questions... if you can provide some input on just one of these I will be extremely happy!

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No.

That is opening the door to a conversation. You already did that and look what has happened.

Here is my Terms Of Sale (TOS) and all other assorted policies covering every eventuality. I have used this for the last six years:

Refund: Money back.

Recently I have amended that to include "45 day warranty".

Why? These are directly in line with eBay and Paypal's policies, except, they are stretching the refund for any reason to 60 days. Saying anything else? Why bother? eBay and or Paypal will over rule you.

Further? Customers do not read anything, never have, never will. Customers have been trained, by society for refund for any reason, money back, no questions asked.

[reallynicestamps]

I assume I shouldn't be so direct as to simply reply "Return for refund"? Should I apologise and say I look forward to make them happy etc. etc. (even though it makes me wanna puke)?

Nope. At most your message might be " I am sorry you are not happy with your purchase. Return it for a full refund."

And then as the saying goes : lather, rinse, repeat.

This is a good use for Copy and Paste.

Should I specify somewhere in my listings that, in the event of a problem with the item (not as described, not functional, etc.), I will grant a full refund including shipping fees? (Would I get the extra benefit of increased sales or would the impact be marginal? J J )

No. No. Never. Nope. Bad Idea.

Good customers expect this, because that is what they would do. Bad customers will target you.

There is no benefit.

Also, should I add some sort off return policy in my listing describing this (I assume so)? I don't even know if I currently have one atm... Should I make it something like "If item is not as described, I will issue a full refund upon return"? Should I include something about satisfaction guaranteed or money back or is it too large and subject to abuse?

Nope. Your policy is Return for Full Refund. It's near the bottom of the first page of the Sell Your Item form. Again, not need for a conversation. Return for Refund.

[vip-marketplace]

Thanks guys!

I may seem paranoid but I can already see some potential problems having buyers returning stuff:

Let's use my former example with the GPS. What if the buyer falsely pretends that my GPS is badly scratched or has missing valuable accessories? Isn't it very likely that he's going to wreck my GPS or keep the said accessories for himself if I deny a partial refund and insist for a return?

Would there be anything to protect me from this kind of bs?

Also, what if the buyer doesn't return the item but falsely pretend he did. Would I be obligated to refund him anyway? And what if he returns an empty box and keeps the item for himself?

If I'm just being paranoid and anyone have been through this return process multiple without too much issues let me know!

I may just be overthinking because of that **bleep**py buyer mentioned earlier…

[mr.elmwood]

Your paranoia is dragging out "what if" that will never happen. If you are afraid to sell, eBay is not for you.

For every sale there are a thousand different possibilities. Possibilities, not probabilities.

99.9% of all sales go perfectly fine, what should be done about that? The other.1% can go wrong for any one of many thousands of reasons, most that you would never even think about.

Bring a what if when you get a what if, not before.

[rose-dee]

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ggmalkavian wrote:

I assume I shouldn't be so direct as to simply reply "Return for refund"? Should I apologise and say I look forward to make them happy etc. etc. (even though it makes me wanna puke)?

Well, I don't think a few polite words ever hurt.  Personally I would never send an email saying nothing but "Return for refund".  I would probably say "I'm sorry that you were not satisfied with the item.  Please return it for a refund". 

Now I have to differ here with some of the other posters.  If an item were missing a part that could be easily obtained by the buyer elsewhere (as in your case) and had an easily calculated value, I think I'd offer a partial refund on the basis I mentioned earlier.  The reason?  If the buyer returns a partially useable item and pays for the return shipping, you have an additional potential for buyer dissatisfaction -- unless you're willing to pay the return shipping, in which case you have to get into discussion with the buyer anyway.  Your buyer in this case indicated he was willing and able to get the missing piece, so I would have offered the partial refund to save the time delay, and discussions/arguments over return shipping. 

Should I specify somewhere in my listings that, in the event of a problem with the item (not as described, not functional, etc.), I will grant a full refund including shipping fees? (Would I get the extra benefit of increased sales or would the impact be marginal? J J )

No.  This is tantamount to saying you expect things to go wrong, and you'd be inviting scammers to take advantage of you. 

Also, should I add some sort off return policy in my listing describing this (I assume so)? I don't even know if I currently have one atm... Should I make it something like "If item is not as described, I will issue a full refund upon return"? Should I include something about satisfaction guaranteed or money back or is it too large and subject to abuse?

Same as above.  Your return policy is stipulated when you create your listing.  In my listings, I do set out my return policy in a separate section, but that's because I know my particular buyer demographic (they read), and I don't use words like "problems", "not as described", "dissatisfied", etc.  I simply state what the terms of my policy are.

Am I expected to refund the price of the item + original shipping (I assume so too) PLUS the funds required to ship the item back to me?

You should refund the item price + original shipping, otherwise Paypal will do that without your consent if the buyer files a case.  As for return shipping, this is a gray area.  If your item is valuable and/or still worth re-selling, you may want to arrange to pay for the return shipping (which will doubtless also please your customer).  This will also give you control over the shipping service.  If it's a damaged item that can't be re-sold, you won't want to pay for shipping it back.  In fact, you may want to tell the customer to just keep it if you believe he or she is telling the truth about its condition.  Some sellers ask for a photo of the damage in that case (if the damage is visible).

Will I be protected from a negative feedback if I provide the buyer with a full refund?

In a word - no.  The buyer may still feel that neutral or negative FB is warranted, and he's entitled to leave whatever opinion he feels is appropriate.  Also, a refund for INAD (Item not as described, i.e. broken, pieces missing, etc.) is counted as a defect, so you could get two "strikes" against you.  However, a single transaction can only generate one defect in terms of your seller performance ratings.

In the event I get a negative feedback, will eBay side with me if I show them the full amount was refunded and point out my return policy?

In a word, no (unless the buyer can be shown to have deliberately defrauded you, or made a habit of false damage claims, which is probably quite rare). 

********************

As I said earlier, the best strategy is to prevent such issues from occurring in the first place.  Take a look at why this (or any other problem you encountered) occurred and try to fix it at your end.  Better packing, better communication, calm and professional approach at all times with buyers, and whatever else you can do. 

Just keep in mind that eBay won't do these things for you.  They (and buyers) will judge your performance, not your intentions.  

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