Insurance question

[triber]

I recently mailed a package to the US with $500 insurance, expedited. It took 4 days longer than than the quoted date, but did eventually arrive. I didn't hear from the buyer, so I sent an email and said that I was happy to see that it had arrived. She wrote back and said that it was being forwarded to Hong Kong.She would leave feedback then.

I thought it was just going to the US, and my question is, does my insurance just cover it to the US, I hope the insurance doesn't cover it to Hong Kong, I have in my listings that I don't ship to Hong Kong.

[ypdc_dennis · Accepted solution]

To the first destination, after that it is the buyer's responsibility.

[femmefan1946]

You shipped to a freight forwarder.

And your responsibility for it ended at the forwarder's doorstep.

EBay likes freight forwarders so much they have their own - the Global Shipping Program.

And if the transaction is disputed as Not As Described (you sold a red doohickey and accidentally sent a blue one, frinstance) you only have to pay return shipping from the forwarder's address.

[triber]

Thanks. I do NOT like this system at all. I have almost all countries blocked for packages apart from the US and Canada because of the cost of shipping on tracking and poor delivery. I will sell letter mail to a lot more.

I feel that if I have a country blocked, I should not be "tricked" into selling there. In this case the buyer had good English etc. and I didn't realize until she had paid that she was from Hong Kong. I could have cancelled, but it seemed that she was living in the US at the time. When the shipping was several days later than expected I asked if she had received it, and she said that she hadn't heard that it had arrived yet, that was different than receiving it.

It is hard to protect yourself in these cases. If it gets lost before it arrives in Hong Kong, I hope I am still covered.

[ypdc_dennis]

---

@triber wrote:
... If it gets lost before it arrives in Hong Kong, I hope I am still covered.

---

All you have to do is have it delivered to the USA address -- what the Buyer does with it after that point is their responsibility.

No trickery involved. Millions of people (including a lot of Canadians) use freight forwarding to cut delivery costs.

[femmefan1946]

Yes.

You've probably seen all the sellers here who use chitchatexpress and others to take their shipments to the USA and the cheaper USPS for shipping into the States.

Again, another example of using a freight forwarder. Well, sort of.

[triber]

The item was delicate china, which I wrapped in double bubble wrap and double boxed thankfully, no knowing it as going to Hong Kong. But how about if it arrives in Hong Kong broken? It was probably fine when it was delivered to the US, but presumably it wouldn't be opened and checked for breakage. I hope my responsibility ended there also.

[hlmacdon]

Ebay recently rather sneakily removed some of the seller protections on freight forwarders. You might want to read the US boards to catch up on it. I've not looked at it in detail.

[kawartha-ephemera]

---

@triber wrote:

The item was delicate china, which I wrapped in double bubble wrap and double boxed thankfully, no knowing it as going to Hong Kong. But how about if it arrives in Hong Kong broken? It was probably fine when it was delivered to the US, but presumably it wouldn't be opened and checked for breakage. I hope my responsibility ended there also.

---

If you're buying additional insurance from Canada Post I would reccomend reading their fine print on the subject .... I don't believe breakage of fine china is covered no matter where it is being shipped. They would cover a claim for lost in transit but not breakage.  

The packaging you've described is the best insurance against breakage, in all likelyhood it will arive safe packed as you have done.

[femmefan1946]

countries blocked for packages apart from the US and Canada because of the cost of shipping on tracking and poor delivery.

The buyer pays the shipping (including insurance). If she is willing, she will pay. If she is not, she won't buy.

I'm not sure that third party insurance - including postal insurance- is all that useful.  For fragile items and some others (coins and jewelry, mostly) postal insurance is not easy to collect. 

As posted, the best insurance on fragile things is your own packaging.

[triber]

---

@femmefan1946 wrote:

countries blocked for packages apart from the US and Canada because of the cost of shipping on tracking and poor delivery.

The buyer pays the shipping (including insurance). If she is willing, she will pay. If she is not, she won't buy.

I'm not sure that third party insurance - including postal insurance- is all that useful.  For fragile items and some others (coins and jewelry, mostly) postal insurance is not easy to collect. 

As posted, the best insurance on fragile things is your own packaging.

---

Thanks, I asked if she had insured it, and she said that she had, hopefully it is covered for breakage, although I really think I packaged it well. Only twice had something break, one package had tire marks across it and was pretty much flattened!

[femmefan1946]

Oh- SHE insured it?Or said she did.

That's another thing, because it leaves you as the seller right out of the (possible/potential) problem.

Insurance usually pays out to the one who paid for the insurance. Which is not you.

Not sure how she would do that, unless her contract with for forwarder includes insurance from them to her.

Some Canada Post services include insurance, and some allow you to buy more. But what the insurance covers is very restricted.For example stamps, bullion, jewelry and coins are not covered, and there are restrictions on china and glass too.

And often the most CP will pay out is the cost of shipping if the shipment is delayed or lost.

[sylviebee]

I recently had an insurance claim with a third party insurance company for an item shipped to a freight forwarder.  I shipped to the US and they shipped to the buyer.

The item was shipped via tracked package and never arrived.

The whole process of collecting on the claim was a PITA.

The first problem was that the buyer had to sign an affidavit stating that the item didn't arrive. I sent it to my actual buyer because I didn't realize I'd shipped to a freight forwarder and he signed it but then it had to be redone because of some glitch.   Then, trying to get the forwarder to take part in the process took several phone calls etc. and that never did come together.

The process went on and on.  I did eventually collect but the insurance company didn't pay out until the CPO paid their part (the first $100.00).  The whole process took way too much effort and I'm not sure I'd bother insuring items sent to forwarders again.  There was nothing simple about filing the claim.

[ypdc_dennis]

---

@femmefan1946 wrote:

Oh- SHE insured it?Or said she did.

That's another thing, because it leaves you as the seller right out of the (possible/potential) problem.

Insurance usually pays out to the one who paid for the insurance. Which is not you.

Not sure how she would do that, unless her contract with for forwarder includes insurance from them to her.

---

The buyer would also be paying shipping to the forwarder for the final leg of the journey, so adding insurance is not that difficult -- the original shipping from the Seller stops at the USA delivery point.

[triber]

Yes, I sent it expedited to the US, which I thought was the final destination. When it arrived, I sent her a message because it was 4 days past the given date it should arrive, and said I was glad it had arrived and I hope she like it. That is when she told me it was being forwarded to Hong Kong.

Later I asked her if she had insured it from the US to Hong Kong and she said she had.

I am just wondering if is arrives with damage, there is no way of knowing on which leg of the journey it was damaged as it would not have been inspected in the US probably.

[pjcdn2005]

Unless the forwarder tells the buyer when the package arrives that there is a problem with the package, It doesn’t matter when it was damaged from ebays point of view. You have messages from the buyer saying that the package is being forwarded so once it leaves the freight forwarder, it is not your responsibility.  The buyer loses their eBay buyer protection.

However,  PayPal does not have the same rule so the buyer could file a not as described claim but the buyer would have to return it at their expense.

[triber]

Thanks so much, I will be so happy when this package arrives in Hong Kong. With all the problems there with demonstrations, I hope it doesn't affect the delivery of the package. I usually sell low cost items, but this was about $350 US.

[femmefan1946]

@triber 

When it arrived, I sent her a message because it was 4 days past the given date it should arrive, and said I was glad it had arrived and I hope she like it. That is when she told me it was being forwarded to Hong Kong.

Later I asked her if she had insured it from the US to Hong Kong and she said she had.

Personally, I would have skipped those steps on the basis that if the customer has a problem she will let me know.  There is such a thing as too much communication.

Until you told her, she didn't know it was late.

Until you mentioned it, she hadn't thought about insurance.

Until you mentioned it, she hadn't considered that the purchase might arrive in less than perfect condition.

Shtum. 

Don't poke a sleeping bear.

[triber]

Actually, she had told me that it was late. When checking the tracking it didn't move for about 4 days, and that was past the time she had been told it would be delivered by the postal system.

So when I saw that it has been delivered I just told her that I was happy it had arrived and hoped she liked it, having no idea that SHE had actually not received it, but a forwarding agent, she hasn't told me that.

I have never mentioned the condition to her, I just asked if she had insured it from the US to Hong Kong, and she said that she had.