International Parcel Surface now a viable option?

[momcqueen]

So, something just dawned on me....

If Buyer Protection through paypal is extended to 180 days, does that mean sellers can start to use International Parcel Surface (the slowboat) from Canada Post? If the buyer has nearly six months to open an Item Not Received claim, does that also mean that overseas shipment with a service that takes four to ten weeks is suddenly a viable option? It's 'tracked' so everyone knows something is on the way and due to arrive well before that window closes. 

I'm not necessarily suggesting this is a Best Practise (or anything remotely close to it) BUT if a buyer has 180 days to open a claim, does that not also automatically mean the seller has nearly 180 days to deliver it? Assuming, of course, the buyer's patience is more forgiving than his pocketbook. 

You'll have to forgive the question, I can't find this being discussed yet. It's just that I saw another seller offering Ground shipping overseas in a listing and wondered the reason they would put themselves through that much grief. Then I wondered if he might be on to something because of the new paypal rules. 

What do you think?

[pocomocomputing]

The 180 days is a PayPal feature.

eBay still has the 45 days or 30 days after latest estimated date of delivery. So buyers may open on eBay well within the 180 days and you will lose.

My understanding of the differences between eBay and PayPal time periods.

[momcqueen]

Right, thank you. Granted there are differences between ebay's MoneyBack and Paypal's Buyer Protection but if a seller sent the buyer their order and its tracking on day 29 shows it's on a boat across the Atlantic, how can ebay say it's an Item Not Received and refund it through paypal? Did they present any scenarios? Or, what if a parcel has been left at a post office for 30 days and a buyer opens an Item Not Received case when it's clearly waiting for them? Then what? I've never understood how that scenario would play out, either.  

[pocomocomputing]

Just a reminder. PayPal.com 180 days went into effect Nov 18, 2014. PayPal.ca 180 days goes into effect Jan 6th, 2015.

[cumos55]

International Parcel Surface does have tracking.

However for 4 of 9 parcels sent to Europe this past summer......Tracking stopped at Montreal

Tracking by Canada Post should go to Ville St Laurent and indicate that the parcel has left Canada.

If tracking stops at Montreal...  it is difficult to prove that the parcel has left Canada.....  and the buyer wins  if the claim is for ... purchase not received  

[rosscd57]

The real problem however, is the many and I mean many, buyers who agree to Surface Parcel want their purchase in less than two weeks.

[cumos55]

and  that means...

No more shipping outside of Canada and the US.....

[rosscd57]

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@cumos55 wrote:

and  that means...

No more shipping outside of Canada and the US.....

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What he said.

[73rhc]

I don't see the advantage, unless you are offering free shipping. And depending on the package size, how much are you really saving?

But the real disadvantage will be your DSRs. Even if the buyer agrees to the slower shipping. They can still become impatient and then take it out on your feedback and DSR. Is it worth it?

[lukey9]

 I used Surface shipping to Australia quite  a while back, it was a bulky Parcel and when I gave him a Air shipping cost he whined and cried saying he was in no hurry and could I give him a  Tracked surface shipping cost. I gave him the cost which was allot cheaper than Air of course and he paid for it. Since the Tracking number ends in most cases when it leaves Canada it shows that it was shipped. After about 2 weeks he wanted to know where his Parcel was as it was not deivered as of them. I told him in a nice way that it was a long way to Australia from Nova Scotia and I told you it would take up to 2 Months or longer. Since it was not allot of Money I just gave him a Refund and blocked him . So that was my only time using surface no matter how much they whined or cried 

[cumos55]

Communication with a buyer is most important.

My email after a purchase....

--------------------------- 

Thanks for purchasing this book.

Your purchase will be in the mail on Monday December 8. 

Delivery via surface mail should take about 6 to 7 weeks,  and sometimes
longer if the parcel gets caught up in the postal system, or in customs.

A delivery time of 6 to 7 weeks is standard for countries such as the United
Kingdom and Germany.

Once delivered to the post office in Canada,  delivery  becomes the
responsibility of Canada  Post   and then the local postal service in 
Germany. 

The parcel will be fully insured, and with a tracking number, allowing one
to follow the path of the parcel as it travels through the postal systems.

If you have any questions at anytime, please do ask

cumos55

----------------------------------------

Tracking works if  there is an indication the purchase/parcel has left Canada.

Some buyers watch the tracking very diligently  while others get the purchase  and do not say... Boo All...

[reallynicestamps]

But of course, we booksellers have the advantage that our customers can and do read.

Not necessarily true in other categories.

[Anonymous]

I don't think we need to give "false" information that International Surface Mail has tracking number.  I checked PayPal Shipping and it is for about $10.00 and no tracking number, not even insurance.

I doubt that Canada Post would include tracking number for around $10.00.  For International countries to send your items with tracking number would be Tracked Packet (to specific limited countries) and XpressPost for around $68.00 to $85.00 or higher depending on weight.

Speaking of Tracked Packet, it doesn't make senses that Canada Post offers XpressPost only to Japan and Brazil (I am sure some other countries) but don't offer Tracked Packet to those countries.  I would think if they offer XpressPost to the certain countries, I would think they would offer Tracked Packet to the same countries, don't you think?

I would love to ship my items by International Surface Mail with tracking for around $10.00 but it is not realistic and not happening at all.

[cumos55]

International Parcel Surface comes with $100 insurance  and Tracking....

http://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/business/findARate?execution=e1s3

[pierrelebel]

This link at Canada Post is most useful to compare different services.

There are three tabs - Canada - USA - International

http://www.canadapost.ca/web/business/mailing-and-shipping.page

[momcqueen]

Thank you, everyone for sharing your thoughts and insight.

I did use International Parcel a few times a few years ago but found it SO nervewracking that I vowed to never do it again. Even with tracking feature, it is such a looooooong, slow process that I could understand how a buyer might get antsy at Day 44 because, really, they had only a seller's word that the box being tracked was (a) coming to them and (b) actually carried what they ordered. 

When the new 180-day Paypal Protection program was announcement, part of me cringed at the potential for shenanigans from dishonest buyers at Day 179 but the larger part of me cheered at how it will halt all those dishonest sellers in their tracks, the ones that are ruining ebay for people.

And then I saw another seller offering Tracked Surface Overseas in their listing and thought, hey, maybe not so bad after all? Providing, of course, that a seller felt they could trust their buyer not to flame-out with defects for shipping speed and the rest. At this point, I doubt I would take the chance. I lose enough sleep as it is without the additional worry. 

[momcqueen]

Yes. I send buyers exactly one message post-shipment with: (a) their tracking number (b) the exact amount of handling time that passed between payment and shipment and (c) and a specific date for delivery standard on their parcel.

I'd be flattered to think that anyone reads it. In fact, about a year ago, I actually got bad marks from one buyer for pestering them with unnecessary communication. How do you like them apples?

[cumos55]

After a sale eBay does send a lot of emails to a buyer.

There is a way to minimize what eBay sends...  but one cannot say ... No More....to eBay 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

If he postal system creates a problem... and a buyer responds  and then seller has to respond quickly  as well....

A postal problem becomes a defect..... 

A postal problem  with International parcel surface  contributed to defects... two defects.....  However, there was a potential for a total of 9 defects....  all postal problems or potential problems with   international shipping.

One situation had to do with the postal system in Finland not reading the address properly,  they had verified an address... but...they ended up  sending the parcel back to Winnipeg... then Canada Post sent the parcel to Montreal  and then back to Winnipeg....

It was an August full of ... OOOPS... fortunately not full of defects...

This made me give up on international sales outside of Canada and the US..

Many US sellers are losing privileges on eBay  because of problems with international sales....shipping... being evaluated with defects obtained as the result of problems with  sales to buyers outside the US... being evaluated on the basis of a Global standing.... on top of US standing..

US sellers being evaluated on the basis of a Global standing appears to be something new with US based sellers 

[rose-dee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

I'm not necessarily suggesting this is a Best Practise (or anything remotely close to it) BUT if a buyer has 180 days to open a claim, does that not also automatically mean the seller has nearly 180 days to deliver it? Assuming, of course, the buyer's patience is more forgiving than his pocketbook. 

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A buyer may have the option of waiting 180 days should he/she decide to open a claim through Paypal, but (as 'poco' mentioned above), the far earlier 45 day or 30 day post-delivery date eBay claim limit is the one many will choose if they are getting nervous. 

Per eBay's policy pages, buyers can now choose which claim process they use.  Communication with a buyer about long delivery times for surface service may be helpful, but as others have said, there's still the risk a buyer may accept one thing in an email and then react about it later in DSRs/FB, even if they don't open a claim. 

For all of the above reasons, I wouldn't consider offering surface shipping.  In my view the Paypal 6-month claim window hasn't really changed anything in that regard. 

[momcqueen]

Then my position is unchanged: no slowboat-shipping. I must assume the other seller who offered the service in their listing simply did not understand the implications.