eBay

rose-dee · ‎05-10-2017

Well, well, great news today eh? This is the reason I dread that eBay subject line "Seller Update". However, I think those of us who have hung on to Global TRS for many years on the basis of our sales to the U.S. probably knew eBay would be ridding itself of all those seller discounts sooner or later.

Unless you sell widely around the world (and in Canada), expect to lose those discounts (and any visibility boost that went with TRS). They're giving us a "grace" period until early 2018, but that's hardly a comfort for the inevitable. And if they now begin deducting GST/HST on our fees (because we'll be contracting under the eBay Canada umbrella soon), little chunks of our profit will be shaved off at that end as well (unless you're a GST registrant).

EBay will succeed in nickle-and-diming its "boutique" and niche sellers to death, and perhaps that's what they want -- get rid of the non-commercial sellers. What few benefits eBay originally gave Canadian sellers to offset all the disadvantages of selling from here have been clawed back, one by one, over the last 3 or 4 years. It's hard not to be depressed.

The relevant text from the Summer Seller Update is below -- you'll want to read the whole Update. (BTW, since when do we now have a Summer Update? Now it's three lots of bad news per year?)

Updating how international performance standards are calculated

We’re updating our Global seller performance standards program to help you grow your sales, by levelling the playing field—both locally and internationally.

Currently, seller ratings under the Global seller performance standards program take into consideration sales to all countries around the globe. Starting August 1, 2017, sales to buyers in the United States, United Kingdom, and Germany will be excluded from Global seller performance standards. Sales to these countries will continue to count as before in their respective regional seller standards programs, and there will be no change to the US Top Rated Seller program.

http://pages.ebay.ca/seller-centre/news/seller-updates/2017summer/index.html

dutchman48 · ‎05-12-2017

Listings do not add up to $'s. That is a misconception Ebay used to sell their stores.

It is the dollar figure you have to look at.

If you are more concerned with listing more it might be OK to have a store, but if you don't make the minimum to break even, you are selling but losing money every month.

hlmacdon · ‎05-12-2017

@dutchman48 wrote:
Listings do not add up to $'s. That is a misconception Ebay used to sell their stores.

It is the dollar figure you have to look at.

When you have a well stocked store listings add up to dollars. If the amount spent on listings would exceed the cost differential between no store versus a basic, or basic versus premium then that is your determining factor. For hobbyist sellers who have little to no volume I can see where you are coming from however.

dutchman48 · ‎05-13-2017

Maybe if you would not hide behind a posting ID, people could see what you are talking about and work some numbers out.

Otherwise, what you are saying means very little.

In theory, what you say may be true but go read the US boards, people that got stores and listed more, had no more sales. People that had stores for a long time are closing them due to lack of sales. Even people on the Canadian boards are starting to complain about slowdown in sales with and without a store.

Every one has to do their own thing for their own reasons, but with nothing to look at, posting ID, no proof to make it believable

rose-dee · ‎05-13-2017

@lady.stark wrote:
@dutchman48 wrote:
For me no, I have to sell around $500 per month to justify a basic store and around $1500 to justify a premium store.

Can I ask how you came up with this number? I'm really interested, because it might be another reason for me to cancel the store (I have the basic one). I never ever sold that much!

Personally I think the "magic number" to make a store worthwhile will vary for different sellers, and for different items or categories. For sellers with very low costs and expenses, and who minimize spending on pricey listing upgrades, I think the store rationalization number could be as low as $200/month or even less in some circumstances.

I think this is particularly true if a Canadian seller takes full advantage of the included ("free") listings available on both .ca and .com. I rarely spend a penny on listing fees over and above my store allotment, and at the moment I'm still not even using my full allocation of listings.

EBay does provide a handy pie chart (in the invoicing section) to track the percentage that your fees represent in terms of sales. This is one of those little eBay features that is actually very helpful. I try to keep my ratio below 11% overall, but some months its more like 9%, some more like 14%. As long as it's below 20%, I think I can survive. TRS discounts (such as they are) can help slightly. Of course, a seller has to take into account all other expenses as well -- shipping losses/"subsidies", supplies, services, etc. etc. etc.

There are other considerations with a store that I think get forgotten. It isn't all about the monthly math, in my view, but about taking a somewhat longer term view. For example, the visibility of a good store name and logo may be the thing that attracts new customers and brings the old ones back. It may not be tomorrow, but if they remember the name and the logo, they're more likely to look for it again.

Also, stores do come with a number of promotional and marketing tools that I've found to be very useful in keeping and bringing back buyers.

Each situation is different, but I believe the threshold for profitability with a store can be quite a bit lower than $500 per month. That's a personal decision that each seller has to make based on his or her own circumstances.

The aggravation factor of selling on eBay is another matter -- that alone is justifiably going to drive some people to give up their stores.

rose-dee · ‎05-13-2017

@dutchman48 wrote:
Also means I will spend a whole lot less on Ebay.

What Ebay will never figure out or could care less about, is that many long time sellers are are long time buyers.

The big box and Chinese buy nothing at all on Ebay. Once they get fed up, Ebay will be in very serious trouble.

I completely agree with you. I've been saying for quite some time that I think eBay may at some point regret having chased away millions of its "traditional" core of sellers (buyers) once the big guys move on.

It was the longtime, independent, smaller sellers who were some of the most steady, unique and reliable sellers eBay had, providing some of the best in terms of "buyer experience", and the ones who stayed for many years. Once mega-sellers have got what they wanted out of eBay, they'll be gone.

Sorry to hear you've given up your store, but I completely understand your reasons. There comes a point when it just isn't worth the trouble anymore. I may hang on for a while yet, but it gets more questionable with each successive Seller Update.

dutchman48 · ‎05-13-2017

Hi Rose

I have said there are others reasons to keep a store other than monetary.

If you take 4% of $500 it is $20 which is the price of a basic store if you sign up annually.

4% of $1500 is $60 which is the price of a premium store if you sign up annually.

That is the simple math I am talking about.

If you pay above 6% FVF's, the dollar threshold goes up.

Many people will justify or want a store for other reasons and as I have also said, that is their choice but dollar wise, you can't argue about the numbers.

dutchman48 · ‎05-13-2017

Rose, this was a reply to your 1st post

hlmacdon · ‎05-13-2017

@dutchman48 wrote:
Maybe if you would not hide behind a posting ID, people could see what you are talking about and work some numbers out.

Otherwise, what you are saying means very little.

Every one has to do their own thing for their own reasons, but with nothing to look at, posting ID, no proof to make it believable

dutchman48 · ‎05-13-2017

Sorry, that does not tell me much other than you sell a lot more than I do.

Here are my stats:

Transactions and sales

1,313 transactions US $9,959.93

I would like to see what level of store you have, how many listings you have up, what you sell, what your sell through rate is, and pertinent numbers of that nature. Your average sale is around $22 US which is a lot higher than mine. Shipping may also be totally different. You may also be selling for a different reason than I am.

That way I can see exactly what you refer to. As I have stated in many other threads, what works for you does not necessarily work for me and others.

In other words, apples and oranges.

hlmacdon · ‎05-13-2017

@dutchman48 wrote:

I would like to see what level of store you have, how many listings you have up, what you sell, what your sell through rate is, and pertinent numbers of that nature. Your average sale is around $22 US which is a lot higher than mine. Shipping may also be totally different. You may also be selling for a different reason than I am.

That way I can see exactly what you refer to. As I have stated in many other threads, what works for you does not necessarily work for me and others.

In other words, apples and oranges.

Premium store. Number of listings is variable depending on supplier ship dates, seasonality and how much I feel like putting back into inventory dollars, but an average monthly figure of around 600 active at a given time, with relistings throughout the month to restock. That equates to 400-700 unit sales a month depending on seasonal, timing of new item factors, and how badly the ebay dev team borks something. Average shipping would be under $5. I sell to make a profit.

dutchman48 · ‎05-13-2017

For you it is probably worth it. I was listing 1300 to 1800 per month with a premium store. Hence why I shut mine down.

I am selling to dispose of some of my collections I have accumulated as am getting older.

rose-dee · ‎05-14-2017

@hlmacdon wrote:
Premium store. Number of listings is variable depending on supplier ship dates, seasonality and how much I feel like putting back into inventory dollars, but an average monthly figure of around 600 active at a given time, with relistings throughout the month to restock. That equates to 400-700 unit sales a month depending on seasonal, timing of new item factors, and how badly the ebay dev team borks something. Average shipping would be under $5. I sell to make a profit.

I'd be interested to know what category you sell in. Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying you have something close to 100% turnover of listed inventory each month (400-700 sold out of 600+ listings)? From what many sellers have been reporting, even a 30% monthly sales ratio per active listings is extremely good these days on eBay.

Average shipping under $5 sounds like some very small, flat, and light articles -- do you sell stamps, mostly domestically? Or does the $5 average include your international costs as well?

I'm curious because I sent a 120 gram item to Australia the other day and shipping was $10.10 -- not that I didn't expect it, but holding that small, lightweight item in my hand (a small sewing pattern) it suddenly struck me how outrageous international shipping has become. It creeps up on us year by year, and we simply accept it. I don't know how anybody will be able to continue to sell internationally soon.

pocomocomputing · ‎05-14-2017

@dutchman48 wrote:
Hi Rose

I have said there are others reasons to keep a store other than monetary.

If you take 4% of $500 it is $20 which is the price of a basic store if you sign up annually.

4% of $1500 is $60 which is the price of a premium store if you sign up annually.

That is the simple math I am talking about.

If you pay above 6% FVF's, the dollar threshold goes up.

Many people will justify or want a store for other reasons and as I have also said, that is their choice but dollar wise, you can't argue about the numbers.

When I had a store before the new era of free listings included with a store, I had a different view of paying the monthly store fee. Every sale with a store saved a small amount in Final Value Fee because the FVF rate for stores was less than the non-store FVF rate. So if the monthly cost of a basic store was $19.95, the saving in FVF would reduce that net cost of the store down from $19.95 to $11 or $8 or $5 a month. So I had to just justify if a store was worth it for a monthly cost of $11 or $5 or $8. I generally thought it was worth it.

Then came the era of free listing included with a store to save on insertion fees. eBay gave out so many free listing promos that it never made sense for me to get a store.

Now it has changed and free listing promos are rarer so deciding to get a store to save on insertion fees is a strong factor in deciding to get a store today. So your simple calculation of using FVF saving to pay for a store does not really apply today. Insertion fees that need to be paid for listing over the 50 free for non-store need to be considered because of the free listings included in the store.

hlmacdon · ‎05-14-2017

I'd be interested to know what category you sell in. Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying you have something close to 100% turnover of listed inventory each month (400-700 sold out of 600+ listings)? From what many sellers have been reporting, even a 30% monthly sales ratio per active listings is extremely good these days on eBay.

Average shipping under $5 sounds like some very small, flat, and light articles -- do you sell stamps, mostly domestically? Or does the $5 average include your international costs as well?
I'm curious because I sent a 120 gram item to Australia the other day and shipping was $10.10 -- not that I didn't expect it, but holding that small, lightweight item in my hand (a small sewing pattern) it suddenly struck me how outrageous international shipping has become. It creeps up on us year by year, and we simply accept it. I don't know how anybody will be able to continue to sell internationally soon.

Bear in mind that factors in listings that have multiple quantities available as well and I'm referencing USD since I sell in USD. My average shipping cost is a blend of all sales. I leverage USPS along with some Canada Post (mostly web sales vs ebay), but even then you have the same challenge with sales outside of North America as international shipping keeps going up and up regardless of what services you use.

If you don't sell in a category with a reasonably high attach rate or have a hot selling/not readily available item, it is challenging to sell outside of North America for items with a lower ASP as the value proposition is terrible for international shoppers for single item purchases. With multiple item purchases you can compete with Asia based sellers that pile the costs of shipping into all of their listings as "free shipping". I rarely sell a single item in an international transaction, it is almost always multiple items so the buyer can amortize the shipping cost across several items. Some things just aren't a good fit for being sold online because of their low ASP and how infrequently they are bought together with other items.

Realistically if you want to get anywhere with sales on ebay you have to have a value proposition as a seller, either solving a logistics problem (timing, cost, etc) or solving a product problem (availability, price, etc). If you sell in a specific niche you also need to get a good sense of where your customers are buying. Ebay used to be like a virtual garage sale that catered to a broad audience, but it has shifted to a general marketplace that caters to specific demographics in specific categories. I would argue that has pushed buyers out just as much as it has sellers. The impact of the SEO penalty Google slapped ebay with has been far reaching as well.

dutchman48 · ‎05-14-2017

@pocomocomputing wrote:
@dutchman48 wrote:
Hi Rose

I have said there are others reasons to keep a store other than monetary.

If you take 4% of $500 it is $20 which is the price of a basic store if you sign up annually.

4% of $1500 is $60 which is the price of a premium store if you sign up annually.

That is the simple math I am talking about.

If you pay above 6% FVF's, the dollar threshold goes up.

Many people will justify or want a store for other reasons and as I have also said, that is their choice but dollar wise, you can't argue about the numbers.

When I had a store before the new era of free listings included with a store, I had a different view of paying the monthly store fee. Every sale with a store saved a small amount in Final Value Fee because the FVF rate for stores was less than the non-store FVF rate. So if the monthly cost of a basic store was $19.95, the saving in FVF would reduce that net cost of the store down from $19.95 to $11 or $8 or $5 a month. So I had to just justify if a store was worth it for a monthly cost of $11 or $5 or $8. I generally thought it was worth it.

Then came the era of free listing included with a store to save on insertion fees. eBay gave out so many free listing promos that it never made sense for me to get a store.

Now it has changed and free listing promos are rarer so deciding to get a store to save on insertion fees is a strong factor in deciding to get a store today. So your simple calculation of using FVF saving to pay for a store does not really apply today. Insertion fees that need to be paid for listing over the 50 free for non-store need to be considered because of the free listings included in the store.

I was listing an average of 1500 items per month with a premium store and most months never hit $500 in sales gross, let alone 1500.

Your way of thinking does not cover that scenario for me.

I have said before, many people justify a store for different reasons than return on investment.

dutchman48 · ‎05-14-2017

the other issue of course is what is happening with Turbo Lister . When TL was not in jeopardy of going away, you could have a basic store, create a whole lot of listings and save them. List auction or fixed as you please and go back and forth.

If you have to pay for a listing program, most of which have issues or are quite expensive, also has to be taken into account.

Far more difficult and much more work to use them, again unless you want to pay for a very good one.

When you add another $20.00 or more onto the store cost, it became even less worthwhile and more costly for me.

I don't list everything and just leave it until it sells. That is suicide and the only one wins is EBay.

And as I said before and keep repeating, everyone has to look at their own situation and make a decision, but I will also say again, to have a store so more can be listed without a proportionate increas in sales does not really make sense either.

tusalena2 · ‎05-26-2017

Unfortunately, your account no longer meets one or more of the Top Rated Seller requirements based on US seller performance standards.

For this requirement, we look at your transactions during the past 3 months. To be a Top Rated Seller, 95.00% of your transactions must have tracking uploaded within your stated handling time, in addition to receiving a carrier scan.

US buyers do not want to pay the extra for tracking for their shipping. It's hard enough with the cost of shipping now I HAVE to have tracking.

rose-dee · ‎05-26-2017

@hlmacdon wrote:
Realistically if you want to get anywhere with sales on ebay you have to have a value proposition as a seller, either solving a logistics problem (timing, cost, etc) or solving a product problem (availability, price, etc). If you sell in a specific niche you also need to get a good sense of where your customers are buying. Ebay used to be like a virtual garage sale that catered to a broad audience, but it has shifted to a general marketplace that caters to specific demographics in specific categories. I would argue that has pushed buyers out just as much as it has sellers. The impact of the SEO penalty Google slapped ebay with has been far reaching as well.

I would agree with all of this. Solving the logistics and shipping problems (which were in fact created by eBay policy) was precisely what drove me to start listing on other sites about 3 years ago.

I too believe that along with eBay's traditional sellers (what I like to call "boutique" sellers), have gone eBay's buyers in such categories. Although my buyers still find me here, I know, unlike 4 or 5 years ago, it isn't the first place they look anymore.

EBay began making quantum shifts in focus and policy around 4 years ago. As a result, they let that core, traditional market slip away and other sites have gladly run with it. Now those sellers and their buyers are spread amongst 3 or 4 online venues or more. I've seen many of my old familiar eBay competitors (and sellers I've dealt with) popping up elsewhere over the past 2 years.

My opinion is that eBay could have retained that OOAK/vintage market (and all its buyers) and continued to run it alongside their mass-produced commercial item market, had they divided their site into 2 streams. If they had done this when they were in a dominant position in the online marketplace a few years ago, perhaps they may even have prevented the emergence of sites catering to the OOAK/vintage market. Sorry eBay, it's too late now.

When the big commercial sellers of mass-produced goods have had their fill of eBay and moved on, or if Chinese sellers can no longer reliably or cheaply ship to North America, what will be left? In my view, eBay has traded millions of loyal individual sellers for a much smaller group of big sellers who are neither directly invested in nor concerned about eBay's long-term success. IMO, of course.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-26-2017

@tusalena2 wrote:
Unfortunately, your account no longer meets one or more of the Top Rated Seller requirements based on US seller performance standards.

For this requirement, we look at your transactions during the past 3 months. To be a Top Rated Seller, 95.00% of your transactions must have tracking uploaded within your stated handling time, in addition to receiving a carrier scan.

US buyers do not want to pay the extra for tracking for their shipping. It's hard enough with the cost of shipping now I HAVE to have tracking.

Where do you see that you lost trs because of the 95%? Canadian sellers have never been required to meet the tracking requirements to be US trs so it's odd that you would see this. The standards for US sellers did just change from 90- 95% but that shouldn't affect your standing. I've never met that metric and I still have trs on both sites.

Right now you do have global trs so will still get the discount.