What Is The Process?

[thebarterersdog]

Hi all, I have a situation that I haven't had to deal with until now. 

If a seller lists a 'widget' for $70.00, lots of photos clearly show what is included and the description is exact. A buyer bids and wins the lot, cuts up all the jewelry and acid tests it and decides the jewelry has no gold or silver content and then demands a refund for the lot and wants to return all the cutup pieces to get that refund. 

However, because of the involved testing that would be required thus destroying the lot, there is no refunds offered on the listing and this is clearly defined. Yet still the buyer bid and won the lot, must have read the lot, yet demands a refund saying the items were all broken. However, they clearly are not in the photos. 

So they threaten a claim stating the items were not as described, yet they were described clearly including all stamps and tags attached.  Also we clearly do not test metals and stated this in our listing too. 

This same buyer has purchased other lots from us too and now we are afraid they will complain about them too, destroy them as well and then try to get their money back for these items like the first. 

[i*m-still-here]

This must be the same buyer you posted about yesterday????

For something like this you really do need to post the item number(s).

It's common for sellers to throw the words Sterling and Gold around very loosely even when there are no hallmarks.

To me all this testing is nonsense:  If it's not stamped/It ain't Gold.

There was a period of time in history in a very parts of the world when pieces were not necessarily stamped even though they are the real deal, but that was a long time ago and those pieces are few and far between.

My understanding of testing, however, is that requires a scratch and there is no reason to cut the pieces up.

Were the pieces hallmarked?

[pierrelebel]

Is this the same situation you raised last week for that $41 lot where the description reads "MANY CLEARLY MARKED AS BEING 9.25 OR STERLING OR GOLD"?

If so, in my opinion, the best thing to do is to offer a full refund, including shipping, upon receipt of the returned goods.

The alternative is to let the buyer file the claim with PayPal.  The result will be the same except the odds of getting negative feedback will be greatly increased.

All the disclaimers in the listing, and there are many, have no bearing on eBay/PayPal policies. If a buyer claims the goods are not as described, the buyer will get the purchase price and shipping charge refunded.

[pierrelebel]

Ooooooops!  Time flies by.

It was not last week.  It was only two days ago:

http://community.ebay.ca/topic/Seller-Central/What-Would-You/4000008454 

Same problem, same suggestion.

[thebarterersdog]

okay now I'm with you ... yes... I have a bad feeling about this one though since there are two other lots she purchased... 

So refund once product is returned?

[i*m-still-here]

That's one option.  Not the wrong one........ but.......

When you posted about this on a previous thread the listing indicated that one of the ten items is Sterling and 4 are Gold.

You listed the specific gold content as well in the title.

You also seemed to indicate in that thread that these 5 are stamped.

IF that is the case then I would made sure the buyer is aware of those stamps.

Something doesn't quite fit.  Why test if they are stamped?

You said you have photos of them.

That should save you.

If they are not stamped then they really have no value and don't warrant the cost of shipping.

Moreover, if they are not stamped AND didn't test positive for gold or silver content then you're probably in trouble no matter what you do.

[pierrelebel]

"You said you have photos of them"

I would think that if photos or images existed proving the gold and/or silver content, these photos would/should have been used in the listing.

[femmefan1946]

To win the dispute, the buyer must return the product with Delivery Confirmation and in the same condition it was sent.

Anecdotally, buyers have lost Not As Described disputes for washing second hand garments before trying them on.

Certainly demand return, in the original condition, for a full refund. Heck, include a promise of return postage. Note the weight of the original parcel in your polite request for a return. (Because you know you ain't getting the scraps of gold or sterling silver back, are you?)

Frankly I think you are going to get a neg out of this no matter what you do, so you may as well try to get your stuff back. If you win the Dispute, the buyer cannot leave feedback.

[i*m-still-here]

Yes, I would have expected that as well.

You also said that the opening bid is based on one ounce.

One ounce of what?  Gold??

Even the lowest Karat you listed would be valued at about 25 times your opening bid.

I think you might be in trouble.

[i*m-still-here]

In all honesty:  Your stuff looks really neat and like it has good value.

I suspect that you goofed ........... made a mistake.......... on this one listing and got caught.

Unfortunately for you the same buyer has potential to do you a lot of harm at this point.

If it were me I'd apologize and explain that I made a mistake, tell the buyer to keep the pieces (if they are not gold or silver they have no value anyway)............

I'd also send a nice freebie with each purchase.

If you do it right your buyer should understand.

Forcing a return if the item was NADed even if you pay shipping both ways might not be the best option in this case.

If the lot was gold and silver............ that's a whole different story.

[thebarterersdog]

Hi I'm

Yes there were several pieces stamped and tagged and a few missing tags that we clearly indicated may not contain silver or gold. Pierre posted the number. 

She emailed me and told me the pieces were all cut up. 

[thebarterersdog]

yes, 10k, 18k, and 14k gold stamped and 9.25 silver and one was stamped STERL with a faded  ING lol 

We never claim something is silver or gold unless stamped or hallmarked. We do not want the items returned at this point, there's nothing we can do with pieces. 

It's a tough spot for us because of her other purchases. I agree with Pierre to a point that a refund is best but this is a new buyer with little feedback and in giving the refund I may open the door to trouble with her other purchases which thankfully were not of the same nature. 

[thebarterersdog]

Certainly demand return, in the original condition, for a full refund. Heck, include a promise of return postage. Note the weight of the original parcel in your polite request for a return. (Because you know you ain't getting the scraps of gold or sterling silver back, are you?)

Frankly I think you are going to get a neg out of this no matter what you do, so you may as well try to get your stuff back. If you win the Dispute, the buyer cannot leave feedback.

Yes Femme you nailed it. That looming negative lol Okay, I think I will ask for the items returned, we have photos of the items and their stamps, so anything different I get back should be obviously wrong. 

I know to save a lot of headaches a refund is easier, but like Femme said, she has to send the items back and in the same condition. We sold two other lots to other buyers that were just the same, odds and ends and there was no problem with them. Just this one is giving us a whopper of a headache.

[thebarterersdog]

We always take photos of items like this for insurance purposes in case items go lost. I think our error is that we didn't use all the photos in our listing and that will be something we'll have to learn from I guess. 

Thanks for the help. 

[pierrelebel]

"I think our error is that we didn't use all the photos in our listing"

BINGO !

[thebarterersdog]

To win the dispute, the buyer must return the product with Delivery Confirmation and in the same condition it was sent.

This is what we will rely on.

Anecdotally, buyers have lost Not As Described disputes for washing second hand garments before trying them on.

Certainly demand return,

Done!

[i*m-still-here]

Why would someone test stamped pieces?

[rosscd57]

Why would someone test stamped pieces?

They don't have to. My first job at 17 years old was as an apprentice engraver/diamond setter in a jewellery manufacturers in Hamilton Ontario. One of the first jobs I had was testing gold teeth that were sent in and bought from dentists - yes, if your dentist pulls one of your crowns he will sell it and not pay you a penny. It was bit on the disgusting side, as I had to hit each tooth with a small hammer to get the gold out and the tooth pieces went flying everywhere.

All you need to do is just rub the jewellery on a small piece of black slate, it leaves a mark. Then various chemicals are dropped on it with a small eye dropper. You can tell real gold from silver or copper and can even get the carrot number.

[thebarterersdog]

Ross..... ew!

Just a follow up. Despite our offer to refund upon return, this buyer filed a claim and omitted the fact that we agreed to refund upon return. 

We even gave her the option of half a refund, keep the items if she didn't want to ship, but nope... claim time. We've blocked her now and will have to ride the storm.

Femme's prediction just may come true.