eBay

amberwoodottawa · ‎04-13-2004

Well this is my month for negs. 2 in a row.

I sold a purple violin in November (one of over 150 I sold last year).

A few weeks later, this guy emails me and tells me that it looks really beautiful but he was expecting an electric violin and suggests that my listing originally said "Electric Purple Violin" and that I changed it.
He did acknowledg that he should have asked more questions and asked what my return policy was.

I sent him a link to the exact listing where there were no changes made and I nicely explained that we dont sell instruments on spec as the instruments are considered as used once shipped out however I would be prepared to give him a partial refund as I would only be able to sell his violin as 2nd hand.

I offered him about 65% of what he paid. I also told him that alternatively, for about $50, he could purchase a pick up and convert it into an electric violin.

End of story, didnt hear from him until today when I received a negative.

I emailed him and have given him 3-days to file a retraction through ST or I am suing him for any resulting loss of business. I have already sent notice to my Toronto lawyer and will proceed against him this Friday with a formal demand from my lawyer for a retraction or will issue a statment of claim against him.

Once again, I may just get out of this eBay crap. I started to relist this weekend and was starting to do really well. I am willing to bet my sale of violins will drop off immediately.

As an example, I have a blue violin listed and not one bid as a result of the earlier neg and I my sell rate on these is over 95%.

Unfortunately, I left him feedback under my old rules so I dont have the opportunity to tell others the full story about this bum.

This is no way to run a business.

Malcolm

33dga · ‎04-13-2004

It is unfair the way most negatives are received. I also don't belive your sales will drop from one or two negatives. I often get customers who make mistakes themselves and then attack myself by threatening a negative if I do not do what they want.

You can only bend so far.

I belive most people will realize there are people that cannot be dealt with. You can only fight so many. Sometimes it's just the cost of doing business on ebay.

You could always pay money to ebay or a lawyer to try and resolve the conflict but the end result will be more frustration with the unreasonable buyer.

-Craig

amberwoodottawa · ‎04-13-2004

Craig
The first neg from a Seller bothered me 1. as it was my first neg and 2. they didnt ship the item (admitted they didnt) and wouldnt refund my money.

2nd and 3rd neg didnt really bother me (didnt want them) however this one does for a few reasons.

The first is he waited almost 5 months. The second is I got 2 negs in one month. Third is he said I changed my listing between the time he bid and the time I shipped the product and 4th as it was for the same instrument, which has been my best seller (and has nothing to do with the quality of the instrument).

I am thinking about providing a link on my About Me page to put part of the emails received from people who negged me where they say "we love your instrument, give us positive FB or you will be negged" or "I made a mistake and thought I was purchasing an electric violin, I know it is my fault" together with my email agreeing to give a partial return of what was paid or suggesting adding a $50 pickup.

I dont sell hundreds or thousands of my products on eBay so getting a neg really pulls my qualifing FB ratio down.
I feel that potential customers have a right, if they choose, to see exactly why I received a neg FB and then make an informed decision about purchasing from me.

The one line we have to respond to neg FB is insufficient in many cases, to provide a satisfactory answer. I feel that my buyers have a right to know so I may work on that link this week.

Malcolm

amberwoodottawa · ‎04-13-2004

Update
The Buyer called my Toronto lawyer to verify that I was telling the truth when he was told that I had contacted them, he immediately filed with Square Trade this afternoon to have his negative removed conditional that I cease any legal action against him or his family for any damages arising from the transaction.

No more undeserved negs without a fight (where I can)!!!

Malcolm

doc_scribe · ‎04-13-2004

Bummer!

However, a quick question about the feedback 'process'...how is this even possible after almost 5 months? I thought the feedback posting window closed both ways after 3 months.

your-chic-shopper · ‎04-13-2004

There is a way around it , with an old form posted on Ebay you can give Negative feedback uptoo a year

amberwoodottawa · ‎04-13-2004

When and where undeserved, I will now consider threatening legal action for damages due to unfounded comments and negative FB. If the Buyer feels that they are correct then they can leave their neg and comments and possibly win in court.

Sometimes one has to do something a little far reaching to set or raise the bar and protect their business. I would have proceeded against this person in small claims court had they not budged.

I wasnt letting negs bother me, as I am not in the business to earn negs, I am in the business to make money.

However in this case, I could see the negs affecting the bidding on one of my instruments (identical to one person negd me purchased) and that is what was so upsetting. Having a product with a 95% sell ratio only getting a single bid on it, while other items were receiving more attention from bidders told me that people may trust me because of my overall FB rating however they didnt trust one of the items I was selling.

Malcolm

phoenix_top_drawer · ‎04-13-2004

Malcolm,

I can see that by virtue of scale, one neg is a large percentage so the damage is huge. Is there any way you can mitigate your risk in dealing with cretins? After we got our second undeserved neg and were very graciously spared a neg by someone that had every right to neg us (same day) we started looking at ways to avoid dealing with heartache looking for a place to happen. We looked at 10 FB's as a cut off. That made no sense because some of our most pleasant transactions are with newbies. What we settled on is, if we can catch it, we check feedbacks and the feedbacks they've left for others. Works well if they e-mail before bidding. Doesn't work at all on last minute bids.
Don't lose heart. Non illegitimus carborundum. You've got great stuff.
And judging by price point, it's a reasonably profit-efficient channel for you.
But kudos on the lawyer. Great strategy- but expensive I'm guessing.
I often wonder if ebay could put legs on their promise of performance to power sellers by figuring out a practical and fair way to intervene in garbage FB situations.

Brad

amberwoodottawa · ‎04-13-2004

Brad
I am a business consultant and work with and out of several law firms in Canada so the cost on this one was $00.00. Even if we had to go further, the cost would be between $00.00 and $00.00. I would have only had to pay for any out of pocket disbursements such as court filing fees.

I am now requesting that my customers let me know how they like the instruments that I sell them. I am NOT asking for eBay feedback, just communication back to me. In this way I am trying to make certain they understand there is an open door for discussion.

Further, if I get positive emails about my service, products and pricing and then they neg me, I can go the legal route again.

I had posted on an earlier thread the warning signs I noticed in my trouble customers and I generally steer away from them.

There was nothing in my initial dealings with this last neg customer at the end of the auction until about 2 weeks after he received the instrument and tried to get me to take it back as he said I originally advertised an electric and I changed my eBay listing after he won the violin to read "acoustic".

I dealt with him by calling his bluff but at the same time offering to take back the instrument at a slightly discounted rate as it was now considered to be "used". I also suggested that for about $50 he could have a local music store put a pick up onto it and make it an electric violin, as he claimed that was what he wanted.

I didnt hear back from him until I got this neg today almost 5 months later.

I am willing to give most people a chance and work with them. I was Corporate Credit Manager with a major Cdn corporation responsible for $1 billion in annual credit sales. I worked with a lot of customers and helped them establish themselves with banks and other creditors so ths is nothing new in dealing with some newbie eBay Buyers.

It all comes down to communication.
Thanks

Malcolm

your-chic-shopper · ‎04-13-2004

Malcolm
I find it best to tell fellow Ebay PS's ,how I worked the situation out . Not for whom I once worked for and what their Net worth was.

Just my 2 cents

amberwoodottawa · ‎04-14-2004

Gee we have at least one firefighter on this board, people that are with the military, golf pros, people that own their own stores and post pics of the shows they display their goods at, retired people etc (and how do you think I learned all that?).

I wasnt aware I was doing anything different than anyone else aside from reflecting how my experience has helped me in my eBay business and lends to my assisting newbie buyers.

As for net worth, I'm not about to disclose mine and I dont recall anyone else doing that on this board.

Having a bad day?

Malcolm

berties_house_of_horrors · ‎04-14-2004

Everyone knows (or should know) that you can't edit a listing or add to the description after it ends (though you can change the pics that any hyperlinks link to) so he showed himself to be a liar... And yeah.... listings stay on the system longer than 3 months. If you have the number, you can look at it for like 120-135 days. And you can leave FB after that. If you have yet to leave a FB follow up comment, I would point out that he left FB after 5 months which says a lot about this buyer.
Anyways, If I were a violin buyer and saw glowing FB from 149 buyers I would at least do the proper check as to the one negative.
Bert

amberwoodottawa · ‎04-14-2004

Thanks Bert
I recognized the guy as a liar. If the listing had have been changed during the auction period, there would have been an eBay notice advising that the listing had been updated.

He emailed me several days (going into 2 weeks) after he received the violin and tells me that I changed my listing and asks for a refund. I did everything to accomodate him by offering him 65% of what he paid (I would have to sell it as 2nd hand to a store & I dont refund as a policy) and further suggested he could have it turned into an electric.

He never responded so I assumed that he opted for having pickups put on it making it an electric for about $50.

Its just difficult to figure what triggers people 5 months later to leave a negative (I had left him a positive).

Malcolm

shooger · ‎04-14-2004

"...conditional that I cease any legal action against him or his family..."

You were going to go after HIS FAMILY? Wow... that's harsh. Would that even fly, in court?

Anyway, I would recommend you leave follow up feedback. He only has 2, so your follow up will probably be visible on his first page for a long time.

Also, you could include in your listings "thanks for your bid... and remember, if this doesn't go well, I'm going to sue you!" Maybe that would keep the idiots away?

amberwoodottawa · ‎04-14-2004

shooger, I wasnt going after his family nor his friends however here is what he asked for (I edited out his name):

Possible Resolution: Seller has promised suing [me] for damages [H. J. Marin - Marin, Evans, Bell] for leaving "unfounded negative feedback". I will remove current negative feedback provided seller agrees that: Removing current negative feedback: ??ItemNotAsDescrived:isDeceitfulLiarUnflexibleNoRefund.Will Deny.accuseofextortion" fully compensates damages suffered by Shopline and Malcolm Williamson. Further, this relieves "SOB", family, friends, relatives, associates, related past organizations, present or in future, of all responsibility for this, or any other, legal matter between Malcolm Williamson of ShopLine and "SOB". *possibly: Marin Evans Barristers 200 Adelaide West, Toronto, ON M5S2C7

Buyer went on to state that he over-reacted and ackowledged that had I offered a solution and that he errored in leaving me neg FB and wished to correct his actions.

In my reply to ST, I stated that I wished him to keep the positive I gave him and that I hoped he would learn from this experience, read the description of what he was bidding on closer, pay attention to Sellers' terms and communicate with Seller if any misunderstandings.

I can be a real ba$trd when it is necessary (like threatening to sue him) but turn it around and try to teach him a lesson to be a good eBayer in the future.

Hope it works but I will never know as I blocked him as a bidder on my auctions.

Malcolm

cutecoins · ‎04-14-2004

Somewhere in all the emails and rules I recall that a dealer can cap his feedback. If this is still true would it be worth doing?
Thoughts from the soap box.
Jim B.