According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

If as a seller you offer , in writing , to mail item(s) to a buyer using regular UNINSURED airmail shipped at buyer's risk of loss or damage or , the option of paying for registration or other insured trackable options and the buyer chooses the first option , and then claims that the item has not arrived and wants a full refund.......Ebay says that the seller has to take primary responsibility to ensure delivery and , if in doubt , should cover the cost of registration to protect him or herself.


Now, I'm not saying that the buyer is dishonest but , if the buyer is clearly made aware of the available options(s) ,  and still chooses the less safe route......why should the seller be deemed responsible for the buyer's (bad) choice and the failure of the postal system to deliver ????


 


Is this fair to the seller who has tried his or her best to inform the buyer accordingly ???


I mean why bother !!!


 


Sure, there is a resolution center. The said buyer puts in a claim and gets his refund and sure , we can appeal the case with an unknown outcome as decision is made by the resolution center people.


Is this not a case of seller is guilty unless they can prove otherwise ?


 


Am I missing something ?


 

Message 1 of 71
latest reply
70 REPLIES 70

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

For those interested in understanding the policy and fee changes that took place two years ago, please take a look at the official announcement:


 


http://announcements.ebay.com/2011/03/2011-spring-seller-update/ 


 


Personally, like thousands of other sellers, my fees were reduced by the policy and fee changes.


 


Others on the other hand saw their fees skyrocket - more so when the shipping charge was high relative to the value of the transaction.

Message 21 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

When FVF was applied to shipping....


 


The adjustment in FVF percentage for books  was based on the eBay.com model with a mandated maximum of $4.00 US for shipping on eBay.com.


 


Applying that model to Canadian booksellers on eBay meant that the FVF paid to ebay was increased.


 


The baseline cost for shipping a book weighing less than one kilogram in Canada was $12.00 compared to USPS media mail at about $4.00


 


With some thought and adjustment...Shipping prices,  book prices  and an understanding of buyer psychology....  this seller did better after the FVF adjustment...


 


It was a lot easier to make adjustments with high priced inventory than with lower priced inventory...


 


Lower priced inventory was set aside and no longer sold on ebay....In four  years the average price per sale doubled....

Message 22 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

First of all , I would like to thank all those who have made comments. Much appreciated and informative.


 


Secondly , I just want to mention that I do still think Ebay is a great venue to buy or sell and that I will gladly continue to do so.



Lastly , I DO understand that Ebay and other mail order businesses have rules and I abide by them but.......I also still believe that it's a rather flawed and skewed system towards the sellers


and in a perfect world , it would be nice to see Ebay take the lead and come up with a more equitable / fair solution. I still believe that buyers should be held accountable for their unforced choice of delivery options and not just rely on the sellers having to protect themselves , sometimes at great cost vis a vis the value of the item(s) purchased.


 

Message 23 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????


"The same is true for all sellers offering their products on a "free shipping" (shipping included in price) basis.  They all found themselves paying lower fees to eBay!"


 


Not true at all, every seller without a store subscription paid the same (if they were the very few with free shipping before) or more fvf as there was no change to the auction fvf rate



 


When shipping FVF were introduced, non-store sellers were given 50 insertion fee free auction listings. This was partial compensation for shipping FVFs.


 


The insertion fee are $0.10 to $2 saving $5 to $100 in insertion fees for the 50 free. If you use free auction BIN at $0.05 to $0.25, you save an additional $2.50 to $12.50.


 


The non-store account was designed for causal sellers who do not need a store.


 


If a seller wants to sell more items at an auction and the sale price is higher than $50, then a store with a lower FVF rate might be a better way to sell at auctions.  The sell through rate needs to be higher so that the insertion fees are covered by the saving in lower FVF rates.


 


A non-store gets the same FVF rates as a store for fixed price listings.


 


The non-store auction FVF rate at 9% compares favorably to Fixed Price listing rates of 10 to 13% in most categories (except electronics at 7%) for item sold under $50.


 


Most promos seem to go to non-store eBay accounts. The savings in insertion fees more than compensates for higher FVF rates and shipping FVF rates since most non-store sellers using auctions have a low sell through rate.


 


You have to look at a non-store account on the the total fees paid to see if the overall fees are better. If you look at an single sale, you do not get a true picture of a non-store account fees paid be it insertion, FVF or shipping FVF paid.


 


 


 

Message 24 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

"buyers should be held accountable for their unforced choice of delivery options"


 


99%+ of mail order businesses have long ago eliminated delivery choices for buyers.  Since the seller will generally be held responsible for non-delivery to buyers, do not give buyers the option for uninsured shipments if insurance is important to you. 


 


For most sellers of relatively low cost items (under $100 or whatever number makes you feel comfortable) there is no point in paying the high cost of insurance (typically 1.5% to 2%) since the loss ratio is a small fraction of the cost.


 


And, asking the buyers to pay for it - either directly (against eBay rules) or hiding the insurance fee in the price - will results in substantially lower sales as such seller would outprice himself against the competition.


 


When looking specifically at stamp dealers around the world (I noticed you sell stamps) the vast majority of transactions are sent by uninsured lettermail or letterpost (except for very expensive stuff).  I do not expect that to ever change.  And yes, my prices, like the prices of most stamp dealers, include a small minuscule percentage in the gross magin to cover the few postal losses we all experience from time to time.

Message 25 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

As the years pass and postal rates increase... It will become less profitable to sell low priced items on eBay.


 


Unless there is a desire on the part of postal services to make adjustments ... specifically for that low priced, light weight item.


 


Insurance and tracking will always be a concern....already evident with Canada Post adjustments for 2013.


 


The main concern has to be that scam buyers will adjust ... and ...  sellers in high scam categories  must make an appropriate adjustment. 


 


Sellers are responsible for what they sell, and their approach to selling ... They  must adjust with each change.


 


There will be changes with each successive year...  eBay, Paypal, Canada Post and other delivery services.... and more


 

Message 26 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

P***** just curious: You once posted once that you insure with  a Canadian company and pay a flat rate/yr and thus ship all of your items insured????

Message 27 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????


 


 


The main concern has to be that scam buyers will adjust ... and ...  sellers in high scam categories  must make an appropriate adjustment. 


 



 


cumos, just how many scam buyers do you have percentage wise?


 


IMO the real concern is difficult sellers.  I don't want to say '"scam" sellers because that word is much too severe.


There are a lot of problem transactions somewhere between a scam and a decent honest transaction.


 


IMO those transactions tend to favour the seller hands down, and those sellers know just how to play it out so that it does.


 


I'm not talking about the type of seller who posts on an ebay discussion board on a regular basis.  That accounts for a tiny percentage of the whole.


 


Yes, they are few and far between but much more plentiful and a greater concern than 'scam' buyers are percentage wise.


 

Message 28 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

Books are not a scam category.


 


Try electronics,  and media such as DVD,  Computer games s such as Playstation and Nintendo


 


New sellers who have not caught on what should happen can get taken quite dramatically...


 


Like a new seller not insuring a $450 item .


 


Scammers  will  know which category to prowl and will stay away from someone that knows what they are doing,


 


 


Set up your listing... present the postage option with insurance and tracking , if needed, ..


 


and then sell, sell, sell


 


 


What does happen sometimes is that a new seller gets taken,  and then comes back with Terms of Sale that sound like every buyer will get thrown into jail....


 


or a new seller lists eBay rules  to an absolute in a listing...  too many words and not enough description... an eBay echo


 


 


 

Message 29 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

cumos:  the answer to my ? then asking how often you've been scammed is:  "Not very often."


 


To bring electronics into the mix............... (are you kidding me?).............. that's a category that scam sellers are swarming.


 


Sure, there are problem buyers too and there are lots and lots of outstanding legitimate sellers of electronics as well...........


 


 


BUT the percentage of problem sellers in that category especially far outnumbers the percentage of problem buyers.


 


Don'tchyathink?

Message 30 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

"You once posted once that you insure with  a Canadian company and pay a flat rate/yr and thus ship all of your items insured"


 


Like most stamp dealers, until I retired, I held a blanket insurance for my inventory, incoming goods in transit and outgoing shipments by registered mail (or similar options).


 


The insurance company is British with a large subsidiary in Canada. It has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Dealers customize the coverage based on their individual needs.

Message 31 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

"


Try electronics,  and media such as DVD,  Computer games s such as Playstation and Nintendo


 


New sellers who have not caught on what should happen can get taken quite dramatically..."


 


None of which could ever possibly be ahead by buying any sort of postal insurance.   Don't even have to know the loss rate to realize that is true, if it was a good deal for sellers to buy insurance then no one would ever offer to sell it.  Postal insurance is it the same category as service plans at futureshop, disc guarantees at gamestop, credit card balance protection, life insurance on kids and numerous other forms of ridiculously marked up insurance that aren't protecting against catastrophic loss

Message 32 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????


 


Like most stamp dealers, until I retired, I held a blanket insurance for my inventory, incoming goods in transit and outgoing shipments by registered mail (or similar options).


 


 It has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. 



 


Maybe not, but when I read your posts advising others about insurance I always think back to your post about the way you inure your items.


 


It made your advice to others appear different from the way you yourself did things (before you retired).

Message 33 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

Whenever one makes a comment on a discussion such as this,  what is presented must be applicable and available to  many sellers and buyers on eBay.


 


We communicate to the masses..


 


Much of what I do is specific to what I sell and how I approach  selling on eBay.


 


What I do may not be  applicable to another seller....  who sells a different category of inventory.


 


I have a personal selling experience,  and knowledge gathered by reading many discussions


 


My source of information is  several of the boards on eBay.com  and eBay.ca


 


Many times  it is a filing away of a piece of information  and the question of whether it could happen to me..  and whether someday it may be important for me....


 


My understanding of eBay goes beyond what I sell....    and each of us has an understanding beyond that of a personal selling experience...


 


Always ready to learn something new.


 


It all becomes a general understanding of what happens on eBay..


 


 

Message 34 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

Anonymous
Not applicable

It is a no-win situtation for many sellers like myself when the buyers whine of too expensive postages where I offer small packets air with insurance, then I offered small packets surface with insurance and then they whined:  "where is my item?" because I shipped it by Surface to save them $2.00!  Now Canada Post removed Surface mail service!


 


Here I go again revising many items for a different mail service again, like third time!!


 


I even have some buyers/bidders asking for much lower mail service like without insurance which I refused to do so.  Even with small packets air/surface, I have received so many claims that they never received, go figure.  I am sure Canada Post is getting familiar with me now as I had to file for claims so many times.


 


In reality, nothing is fair to any sellers regarding.  I just wish that eBay/Canada Post would work together to offer a fantastic mail service like with tracking number and insurance at much fantastic lower prices that will attract us and our buyers to buy our items at any time.  I am sure that with new expensive mail service, Canada Post will see much reduced business than before.  Wish they would offer us the new mail service like tracked packet at much lower prices to attract us to use and I am sure it would increase the mail service at Canada Post but they don't see it that way because they prefer to gouge us because they are so greedy and have too much $$$ in their eyes to see it, that they can increase more business if they offer us at much lower price. 


 


Who is going to suffer is us the small sellers like us?  I am trying to imagine how can I offer my buyer a $5.00 photo with the new mail service?  Who is going to willing to pay the hefty postage for a $5.00 photo in size 4x6 inches???


 


And of course eBay loves that Canada Post is offering a new expensive mail service like tracked packet, because it means that eBay is getting more $$$ in final value fees on the shipping costs.  


 


As for one of you saying that eBay has lowered the final value fees 2 years ago but of course they got more $$ in other way which they ding us by charging the final value fees on the shipping costs.   So it is a no-win situtation for us as sellers!!


 


If eBay really felt that we ARE responsible to ensure that our items are delivered to each buyer like with a tracking number then I EXPECT eBay to offer us a mail service with tracking number at reasonable/low price but they didn't.  So their policy regarding that we are responsible is absurd!

Message 35 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

Why on earth would you give the buyer the choice? He is better off not paying for the insurance (or for Delivery Confirmation) since these services cost him money without giving him any benefit.


If the cost of postally insured services is too high, consider using a third party insurer like shipinsurance, which I understand costs about $1.50 per parcel. I haven't used it myself, but other posters seem very happy with them.


If there is a claim, you promptly settle with the customer, then go to the insurer with your claim. Paypal and eBay are kept out of it, and away from your selling reputation.


Alternatively, if claims are few, you could self-insure (cookie jar insurance) by which you add a few pennies to every shipping and handling charge, and when the occasional problem arises you pay from the cookie jar. This can even be a tiny profit centre. EBay does not allow sellers to call self-insurance "insurance", a term reserved for third-party contracts.

Message 36 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

collectors52- As small packet no longer has insurance and many of your items could be shipped under 2cm, I am curious why you are using small packet rather than light packet. In Canada you are using expedited even for low cost items...do you really have that many claims for lost items within Canada? 


Obviously we all have different levels of loss tolerance but if you were selling your lower cost items using lettermail within Canada and light packet elsewhere, I bet that your sales would increase. When you price postage out you can add 50 cents or so to each item for self insurance. So if you sell 50 items that is an extra $25 in self insurance. Then if a $10 or $20 item gets lost you are still ahead of the game....and if you have been selling more with the lower shipping costs..you're also ahead because you should be making more money! 🙂


 


 


If eBay really felt that we ARE responsible to ensure that our items are delivered to each buyer like with a tracking number then I EXPECT eBay to offer us a mail service with tracking number at reasonable/low price but they didn't.  So their policy regarding that we are responsible is absurd!


 


Ebay doesn't require that you use a tracking number...that's up to you if you want to use one. As explained above and in many other posts from other sellers, there are ways to protect yourself. I disagree that their policy is absurd.....personally I think that it is absurd for a seller to expect a buyer to have to pay for an item even if it was lost in the mail. There are no legitimate retail sites that would make a buyer pay in that circumstance.

Message 37 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

IMO it's a very bad idea for sellers to discuss tracking and insurance matters with a buyer unless specifically asked.


 


 


When asked about the cost of shipping, it's become very common for US sellers to send elaborate emails explaining insurance and asking a buyer to waive their coverage, and also explain how ebay forces them to ship with tracking.


 


Both concepts are BS and most buyers know it.


 


I wish they would just quote their shipping costs without all the rest of it then I can take it or leave it.


I'm not interested in reading an essay which I don't agree with on the subject.


 


I don't know how many Canadian sellers do this, but ...................... just sayin':  IMO it's not a good idea.


 


 


 

Message 38 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

"It made your advice to others appear different from the way you yourself did things"


 


Here we go again.


 


Anyone - but you - reading my posts on the subject of insurance understands the context.


 


Sellers are responsible for getting the goods to buyers.  Period.


 


If sellers feel a need to purchase insurance, they have many choices.


 


One of them is insurance provided by the carrier (Canada Post or others) and we all know the cost of that coverage is very high in relation to value.


 


Others may prefer to self-insure on the basis losses are only a small fraction of the premium they would pay otherwise. That works great when most transactions have relatively low value.


 


Finally, others may prefer third party insurance. Some will purchase the coverage on individual transactions while others will buy "blanket" coverage. Some - in specific industries - will combine their coverage with inventory, liability and other form of business coverage. I do not expect you to know or understand such coverage unless you are involved in such industry.


 


Which part of this do you not understand?


 


I know from your many posts you state you are mostly a buyer on eBay and as such I can see you have no reason to have any knowledge of how insurance works to protect sellers. 

Message 39 of 71
latest reply

According to Ebay.............Is this fair to sellers ????

I buy a car - I have to get insurance. The seller does'nt give me options.


I buy a condo - I have the choice to either buy contents insurance or not. If I don't and the place burns down - Tough for me. The seller does'nt care and neither should he.


I buy a stereo - the seller asks if I want extended insurance - I decline and it does'nt work


1 day after the initial warranty expires - To bad for me. I made the choice as a buyer.


I buy a truck from the states and want it delivered to me in Canada , the seller charges me  delivery insurance...period.....no options.


 


On Ebay , the seller is solely responsible to get the goods to the buyer ,  even though the seller is not and has no control over the delivering carrier, namely the post office , nor immune from any dishonest buyers. And so , the seller must assume ALL responsibility by insuring themselves by the several means as mentioned in previous posts.


 


In most things , it's up to the buyer to chose what they want to do to cover themselves against loss or damage or a myriad of other hurdles.


On Ebay and other similar online or mail order companies , not so.


If the seller offers a buyer options , and the buyer declines an insured or trackable


option for an uninsured untrackable mail option , guess what ........the seller will still be on the hook.


 


Yes yes , I know , those ARE the rules.......but are they fair ?


 


IMO If the buyer declines extra coverage , then it SHOULD be solely at their own risk , or just decide not to buy the item from that seller.


 


A fantasy that will never become reality I fear.................

Message 40 of 71
latest reply