Anyone else notice that New Year's Day wasn't factored as a Stat in Delivery estimates?

[momcqueen]

Well, it was bound to happen.

I got my first defect ever from a buyer in France who says his order didn't arrive on time.

Same-day dispatch on December 29 by Small Packets Airmail to France. The buyer left this feedback yesterday, January 14. Assuming the feedback was left on the same day it was received, this means he would have gotten the item on the eleventh business day.

Here's the thing, though: ebay's delivery estimates stated Monday, Jan 4, 2016 - Sunday, Jan 10, 2016 in the Order Details which is a bit ambitious given that first date in the range is the THIRD BUSINESS DAY because they missed somehow not-counting weekends and that no-mail moves statutory holidays in Canada like New Year's Day, January 1. The delivery standard for Airmail to France is eight business days. Xpresspost International is five. Small Packets Airmail when you go to print the label through paypal shipping says six to ten business days. 

By my understanding of this, that means the date range that should have shown would be Thursday, Jan 7 - Wednesday, Jan 13, 2016. And then I thought ebay added a buffer range to the question to cover a modest number of business-day delays. No? 

I know I should accept this gracefully but I cannot escape the suspicion it was marked late before it should have been, regardless of whether it was a mess-up with estimates on the ebay display of dates or sour grapes from the buyer who is a competitor of sorts. 

Close but, I guess, no cigar. 

[recped]

No Acceptance scan, no delivery confirmation within the estimated delivery time, leaves only one option for eBay, ask the buyer if it arrived on time.

Probably your buyer answered "no".

This is going to be an issue for a lot of sellers but I don't have an answer that wouldn't leave things open to abuse.

One thing, you are showing same day handling, seems to me that same day and on time are incompatible unless you are obtaining acceptance scans.

[momcqueen]

Very true. As an estimate, roughly half of my buyers are within Canada and have their items shipped via tracked services so same-day shipping makes sense that way. I've not yet failed to get my acceptance scan on time.

As to the rest ..... well.... I'm fairly certain other sellers here are going to lambaste me for this but I'm eliminating service Small Packets Airmail in preparation for the new seller standards. It's not as a reaction to this, I began revising my listings on Jan. 1. I'm moving to only tracked services and expanding my ship-to locations to mirror the areas served by Canada Post Tracked Packet. 

If all that ebay cares about effective Feb. 1 is on-time delivery, that's what they'll get. Acceptance scans and plenty of them. 

I'll let you know in a few months whether this was the Worst. Decision. Ever on my part or not. 

Even with our dollar being so low in value, I don't have the same international sales that I did a few years ago, even with cheap, untracked shipping. It's just not worth the aggravation to me anymore. I will miss some of those international buyers but I hope the new in further reaches will compensate. I used to worry about Items Not Received Claims but the on-time metric being missed annoys me more. 

[cumos55]

(1) There was a time when I stopped shipping to Australia and New Zealand... and only shipped to select countries in Europe.... That was small packet surface.. took too long

(2) There was a time I stopped using small packet to the US because of no tracking... Tracked Packet to USA became the standard..

(3) There was a time when I stopped shipping to those select countries in Europe.

Tracking was paid for using International Parcel Surface, but for the summer of 2014.... only 4 of 9 parcel showed the parcel leaving Canada....  That cost me two defects.

(4) Now I only ship within Canada and to the US..  Expedited Canada and Expedited USA as well as Tracked Packet USA

(5) I do use Lettermail Canada,  Letterpost USA... so far so good ...  no tracking....but everything appears to be OK... 

(6) There comes a point where a decision has to be made...

and...in relation to the future...

(7)  Feedback does show more comments with respect to ... fast shipping....

[cumos55]

There is always a possibility that someone  on eBay may not realize that Canada may have a different holiday schedule.... 

Days that are not business days.... compared to the US

We do have some unique holidays... Several  provincial holidays and not necessarily national holidays...

[sylviebee]

A long time ago I took Femme's advice and started to leave the date of shipping in the FB I leave for my buyers.

It's a little more work, but not that much.

It won't solve the problem, but it "might" help a little when buyers can see that you shipped the same day payment was made.

[sylviebee]

I'm not sure, but aren't you also saying that the problem would be solved if you add a couple of days to your handling time?

[sylviebee]

I've never tried to find a seller's handling time before, but I just searched through my listings to see where it's posted.

It wasn't that easy to find and unlike most buyers, I know my way around here.

Even "if"  increased handling time costs you a sale now and then, sales lost due to a longer handling time would be far fewer than sales lost by limiting the countries you ship to.

[rose-dee]

Hi 'mj' -- I have to say that I agree with some of the others here.  I still believe your first best choice would be to extend your handling time to 1 day rather than 24 hours, maybe even 2 days, to buy yourself some leeway.  

The point is to state 1 or 2 days in your listing, but actually get the item out the door faster -- and make sure your buyers know when you've shipped.  

I think you've mentioned you send a personal note to each buyer confirming the ship date and expected arrival time?  You could do what I'm going to be doing after Feb. 20th and send a note to this effect only if using non-tracked services (because Canada Post sends them an email anyway).  

I honestly don't think it's the stated handling time that buyers care about, but the actual performance, especially if they get a confirming note from you with an expected receipt date.  (I'm not sure the idea of mentioning the shipped date when leaving FB is really enough -- buyers don't care about that as much as they do about "when am going to get it?").  

I know I've made this point before, but if your stated handling time is causing grief because of eBay's ignorance of international transit times and statutory holidays, I'd say save yourself by extending your stated handling time.   Don't let eBay make you a victim of your own practices.  I honestly think you'll lose fewer customers (and less money) by extending your handling time by a day than by using a tracked service for every shipment and/or giving up on international sales completely.  

After all these years on eBay, I've found that it's usually better to bend with the wind, however grudgingly, than stand fast and break.  They keep changing the rules, and those of us who are here for the long run have to use creative means to adapt in order to best survive.  

In the end, as much as I was at first disgusted by eBay.ca's suggestion that we all extend our handling times to protect ourselves,  the truth is that eBay's new on-time delivery parameters are no doubt set based on U.S. sellers' reality, not ours.  So Raphael's advice is probably the only reasonable option for those of us who can't afford tracked services 100% of the time (or don't want to turn off buyers with the high cost of those services). 

Hang in there and give it some thought.  My motto 3 years ago was "leaner, meaner eBay".  This year it's "sauve qui peut".  

[momcqueen]

Thank you all for the feedback and advice. I do have to stress, however, that an extended handling time is truly not the answer for me. That would be cutting off my nose to spite my face.

My domestic buyers come to me because they need something important fast, a toy as a gift and with a deadline. If they can't get it fast, they won't choose my shop. As to the untraced Small Packets Airmail, even a five-day handling time isn't going to stop an international buyer from answering 'no' by accident or on purpose, or for customs to delay the parcel for inspection, or the post office to misplace it. In fact, the extra handling time and its associated delivery estimate might be a total turn-off for them too.

Extended handling times are a dreadful workaround. What happened here to me is, I'm betting, a combination of the time difference in the business day between here and France plus a mistake with the statutory holiday being counted as a business day when it shouldn't have been.

eBay is telling us they care only about one thing now: that the buyer gets what ordered fast. The acceptance scan on a tracked parcel is the only part of the equation a seller can control. That, and not cancelling the order due to out-of-stock issues.

The barcode on Small Packets Airmail all-but eliminated Items Not Received Issues but the risk is still there for loss and defect. No online business in my category ships without tracking. The writing is on the wall.

[rose-dee]

Well, 'mj', I don't know.  I don't mean to be harsh, but I honestly think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face in clinging to the 24-hour turnaround.  

Is a 1-day handling time really that much different in buyer's eyes, or even that much different in practical terms?  Often a parcel dropped off at a Post Office within hours of a purchase doesn't go anywhere until the next morning anyway.  With a 24-hour handling time, you'd be losing hours off your own stated timeframe for non-tracked parcels before you even start.  That's one day needlessly (and ineffectively) used up of the "X" number of days eBay will be calculating to show to the buyer at the "Question".  

An alternative might be to put a banner on your store (or a prominent note on all your listings) that you guarantee the item will be out the door within 24 hours or ... whatever (money back perhaps?).  Then just enter a longer handling time in eBay's listing details, for your own protection.  That handling time would be less noticeable to a buyer than your own wording anyway. 

You are right that it is possible for a buyer to answer "No" in error (or out of deliberate spite) to a non-tracked delivery, but my understanding from Raphael was that if the "No" answer is made before the expiry of eBay's expected delivery date, that "No" will not be counted against the seller.  I'm fairly certain he said this, but you might want to ask him again at next week's Board Session.  

That's why I have to concede Raphael's point that, under all the circumstances coming after February 20th, it does make sense for sellers to artificially extend that eBay delivery date -- and right now the only way we sellers can do that is by adding a day or two at the front end.  Whether we perform better, who cares, as long as buyers are happy? 

This new set of rules was designed to appease and accommodate American sellers.  My feeling is that we Canadian sellers have to do what we can to adapt and adjust as long as we are able.  

However, I readily admit there is pressure on all of us, from within eBay and elsewhere, to use tracking 100% of the time.  With rising Canada Post rates there will be a limit to our ability as small sellers to do so.  It's sad to contemplate, but this one rule change will inevitably force a lot of smaller sellers out, some sooner, some later.

You may be in a category where you feel compelled to use tracking exclusively, but you might want to consider using tracking selectively, i.e. during times and to places, or for particular items or customers which might be more problematic than others?  I've had to take a coldly statistical view of these new rules and try to predict and minimize the risk factors one way or another by juggling where and when I use tracking.  It's a proven tactic.  Maybe I should get into the insurance business... 

[pierrelebel]

"an extended handling time is truly not the answer for me."

Please allow me (in a few words): I suggest you change your handling time to one day.  That's it: one day, instead of same day. 

Good Luck

[vintagenorth]

Excuse me for butting in to this thread, but if I change my handling time to 2 days from 1 day, does one lose their TRS status and discount?

[sylviebee]

mjwl2006,.   I would suggest that you put it to the test, but it sounds like a longer handling time would stress you out too much and might not be worth the added income.

I think you know what works for you better than anyone else does.  Shipping only to Canada and the US might be the best choice for you.

For others, extending handling time to whatever number of days prevents defects makes sense and it's an easy fix.

[rose-dee]

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@vintagenorth wrote:

Excuse me for butting in to this thread, but if I change my handling time to 2 days from 1 day, does one lose their TRS status and discount?

---

If you're a Canadian seller, you don't need the 1-day handling time to keep your Global TRS (which will give you the discount). 

If you want US TRS as well -- which in my estimation has dubious value -- then you will need to offer same-day or 1 day handling and 14 day or longer money-back returns.  

[pierrelebel]

"if I change my handling time to 2 days from 1 day, does one lose their TRS status and discount?"

Frankly I do not see any advantage in changing handling time from 1 day to 2 days. 

While eBay is vague on the subject, I think "one day" handling time may help ever so slightly your position in "Best Match" if that is important to you.  It is not to me.

Do buyers pay attention to the fact a seller requires two days to ship instead of one?  I do not know but all my listings have always stated shipping within one business day (well before eBay ever came up with that "handling time" function) and it has worked OK with me.

Good Luck

PS  - Candidly, I think that fear of default based on buyers claiming late receipt is way overblown in most instances.

[pjcdn2005]

I doubt that this has anything to do with New Years Day. There's another thread discussing delivery times  which mentions that ebay is using short shipping estimates for some countries. I've noticed it in particular for the UK but there are other countries that it affects.

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Ebay-s-estimated-delivery-time/m-p/323962#U323962

In that thread poco mentions that the estimated delivery time in the listing is longer than the est. delivery time in the order details so perhaps we can get that changed so that the times in order details are more consistent with reality. (I know..I know..reality is not always obtainable here:)

As far as making any changes right away....I would wait until we find out if we are going to allowed to have be a minimum number of late shipments before they affect our status. If the minimum is 5 and you have had only had 1 late shipment mark against you in the last 4 months (which includes your busiest time of year)  staying under 5 might be very doable for you,  I asked Raphael about this a while ago and again this Wednesday so hopefully we will hear something about it soon.

I think that you mentioned Feb 1 but the new standards start Feb. 20th.

You said "My domestic buyers come to me because they need something important fast, a toy as a gift and with a deadline. If they can't get it fast, they won't choose my shop"

Have you actually asked them if same day shipping vs one day handling would really make a difference? I have one day handling but often mail something the same day but I would hate to have that added pressure of 'having' to mail some packages that same day.

It's your business but looking at it from this viewpoint, I don't see any huge bonus for you or your buyers with promising same day shipping and I think that moving to 1 day would take some stress off of you.

This post is already too long but one more thing...I do think that requiring that all international mail have tracking because you had one late shipping ding in 4 months is overreacting.  But if it really causes you that much stress than maybe you should think about shipping just to Canada and the U.S. But...I still think that you should wait before making any changes.

[rose-dee]

---

@pierrelebel wrote:

PS  - Candidly, I think that fear of default based on buyers claiming late receipt is way overblown in most instances.

---

The problem is that it's the statistics that will get us.  If eBay were basing these metrics on total transactions it might be a different situation, but the statistical base being used is very narrow -- a percentage of those buyers who leave feedback and answer the on-time delivery question.  For a smaller seller, and given today's FB rate from buyers, even 1 "No" answer to the delivery question will be a worry. 

As 'pj' says, much will depend on how many such black marks eBay will allow us before our seller status is affected.  I'd also be interested to know whether the same ceiling would be applied across the board, to all sellers, regardless of size.  That to me would be very unfair. 

[recped]

I have 5 day handling, I'd guess that very very few of my buyers are aware of that. Of course I usually ship faster than  5 days (Canada is usually one day, everywhere else usually 2 - 3 days).

On the other hand because of my 5 day handling and my use of "standard international shipping" the delivery estimates that eBay "creates" are usually very generous and I have no problem meeting them.

Of course under the new metrics I may get a few late shipments....meh! Better than getting a auto defect if a buyer asks where their order is.

[momcqueen]

Very interesting. I had assumed it was a mix-up due to the stat being miscounted. 

So here's the thing. I can prove:

1. I printed my shipping label via paypal shipping within my stated handling time;

2. I took this to the post office where it was received within the stated handling time via the Proof Of Shipment receipt that they print and provide on request after the scanning the incoming shipping label, and  

3. CANADA POST (not me) was experiencing delays due to high volumes from mid-December all through to the start of the second week in January because they ran a banner at the top of every website page where tracking was sought stating thus. 

The former two matters were within my control, the latter not. 

I don't think I should be held accountable for this defect. 

I also realize there is a snowball's chance in someplace-hot that anyone in a position of power will give a hoot. 

By the way, when I download the report, on the defect, it says:

29-Dec-2015 10:34:39 o'clock AM GMT-07:00 Date and Time of Purchase

2015-12-29, 6:59:59 PM Handle by date

29-Dec-2015 12:58:53 o'clock PM GMT-07:00 Tracking upload date

N/A Acceptance scan date

2016-01-12, 12:59:59 AM Max EDD