Anyone else notice that New Year's Day wasn't factored as a Stat in Delivery estimates?

[momcqueen]

Well, it was bound to happen.

I got my first defect ever from a buyer in France who says his order didn't arrive on time.

Same-day dispatch on December 29 by Small Packets Airmail to France. The buyer left this feedback yesterday, January 14. Assuming the feedback was left on the same day it was received, this means he would have gotten the item on the eleventh business day.

Here's the thing, though: ebay's delivery estimates stated Monday, Jan 4, 2016 - Sunday, Jan 10, 2016 in the Order Details which is a bit ambitious given that first date in the range is the THIRD BUSINESS DAY because they missed somehow not-counting weekends and that no-mail moves statutory holidays in Canada like New Year's Day, January 1. The delivery standard for Airmail to France is eight business days. Xpresspost International is five. Small Packets Airmail when you go to print the label through paypal shipping says six to ten business days. 

By my understanding of this, that means the date range that should have shown would be Thursday, Jan 7 - Wednesday, Jan 13, 2016. And then I thought ebay added a buffer range to the question to cover a modest number of business-day delays. No? 

I know I should accept this gracefully but I cannot escape the suspicion it was marked late before it should have been, regardless of whether it was a mess-up with estimates on the ebay display of dates or sour grapes from the buyer who is a competitor of sorts. 

Close but, I guess, no cigar. 

[pjcdn2005]

I've read on the U.S. boards which may or may not be accurate, that it 'may' be easier to appeal things like that once the program starts on February 20th as right now, cs have no way of removing late shipment defects.

[rainbow71113]

I've had defects removed by the rep removing the positive feedback altogether, but it's funny they ask...are you sure you want this removed?  right, I would rather have that nice looking positive and keep that defect....

[momcqueen]

Like I indicated on (an)other thread(s), Canada Post had an amber-coloured text alert running along the top of each track-your-item page for the month of December (or later) saying they were experiencing delivery delays due to high volumes. The delay, if any, was not of my creation. ebay should be cancelling all defects due to late arrival as a result of this mea culpa from Canada Post. 

[hlmacdon]

For international shipments I would not recommend you use small packet air or light packet as your displayed shipping method. Switch it to the small packets ground option for the longer ETAs. There is no such thing as a small packet or light packet acceptance scan, so you are at the mercy of the estimates that ebay has hardcoded to those shipping methods. Having sent thousands of light/small packet international shipments and tracked delivery by the only metric possible (date of feedback and customer messages), and knowing that Canada Post often has these sent by surface when outbound volumes are low, I can tell you that you the ETAs do not reflect reality.

[rainbow71113]

I have a lot of international buyers and I think they would be put off if they saw I was shipping by ground, so that's not really an option, it might be okay for the US but I'll have to think about it.

[momcqueen]

I am pleased to report that I was successful in my bid to have that one defect just now removed, citing the websites that quoted Canada Post's mea culpa for late shipments due to higher-than-expected volumes over Christmas. IT would have been much simpler had the amber-coloured text still been visible. Phew.

I still think there was a miscount in the proper number of days due to Friday, January 1 being considered a business day when it should not have been. Would that be on the Ebay.France's end? Do they not count it as working day so, therefore, it gave a too-short delivery time by override? 

[hlmacdon]

We've seen zero pushback, questions, or concern from international buyers or drop in international sales after a 3 month trial. Then again we also clearly state everything that relates to international shipping and manage the customer expectation. By using the defaults you are overpromising to a buyer on something you can't deliver on or influence. If you run your own ecommerce site and ship by a traceable method this isn't a problem, but if you are using a non-traceable shipping method, overpromising delivery to the customer, and selling on a site that actively markets chargebacks to the buyer you are asking for problems as your recent negative feedback illustrates.

[rainbow71113]

just realized there is no ground option to the US so that's not an option either

[rainbow71113]

sorry, I don't understand what you are referring to, my recent negative feedback was from an idiot who didn't know what they were doing, they bought an official punch needle that is the only needle the company makes for ALL their bunka work and yes, it is lightweight but not some cheap copy- and the buyer did not ask for their money back- which is interesting since they could have since they gave me a defect for item not as described, so obviously they wanted to keep it.  I don't overpromise anything, I only ship daily and send an email to the buyer's saying it is in today's mail.  The rest is up to the post office.

[hlmacdon]

You had a buyer refer to an item arriving late. That relates to the ETA shown. If you chose a method that displays that ETA, you are effectively promising delivery within that window (it may say estimate, but that won't mean anything to a buyer who has that as a metric to measure you by), and you will end up with dissatisfied international buyers and that will become a trigger for them to complaint about other things relating to the item. You have to be aware of the factors that influence a buyer's decision to order, and the metrics they can use to evaluate you. They may be factors beyond your control as it relates to the timing of the delivery, but you do have some (limited) control over what gets displayed. It's not ideal and sellers need a better too for this.

[momcqueen]

Here is another question:

Do you think the rash of sudden defects being seen by Canadian sellers using untraceable services (such as is the bane of our existence due to being reliant on Canada Post) might also be due to being misread by ebay as 'not meeting our handling time' in this statement? We saw nothing of this announcement on ebay.ca but from what I gather, ebay.com has stopped extending the delivery dates for people, wherever they had been previously extended, and I remember the sole spokesperson from ebay Canada once alluding to 'generous' delivery estimates when we were first granted a preview at our new seller standards. Maybe we were being counted as not meeting our handling time because none of us can get the acceptance scan on domestic lettermail, or Small or Light Packets USA or International. 

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y15/m12/i09/s01

"To improve buyer satisfaction, eBay adds an extension to estimated delivery dates for sellers who consistently miss their handling times. Currently, this extended delivery date is also used to determine a seller's on-time shipping rate (an important part of our more objective seller standards). To be fair to all sellers, starting January 1, eBay will no longer extend the estimated delivery dates for those who miss their stated handling times...."

and:

But because eBay does not keep a record of estimated delivery dates that sellers can refer to, this makes it difficult for sellers to determine if they have met the dates eBay set for their estimates, as EcommerceBytes pointed out in September. You can read more about the controversial delivery estimates in this September AuctionBytes Blog post. 

[rainbow71113]

I'm surprised at your comment since you are on an ebay forum, you can not list anything on ebay without putting a shipping price and shipping method so it is Canada Post/ebay that is specifying the duration of delivery estimate, I'm not promising anything one way or the other, I'm only putting on a shipping method from those available to me- and ALL methods display an estimated delivery date so I don't know what you are doing differently if your listings do not give that information to the buyer at purchase/payment.  By the way, speaking of that negative, the defect was for item not as described and you got me thinking.... when someone says that the item is not as described usually they open a case to get all or some of their money back, the buyer did not, and I'm wondering if that defect would still apply since they made no effort to challenge the description and obviously wanted to keep the item, I'm going to have to call ebay to

find out...

[hlmacdon]

The rash of sudden defects is a result of cultural ignorance on the part of ebay. They are trying to shoehorn a system designed for the US into Canada where logistics are completely different. The problem is two fold, one you don't have an acceptance scan to prove you met your handling time, and two you have hardcoded ETA estimates for those shipping methods which are nonsensical and not based on analytical data. Canada Post does not have a set delivery standard for either service, does not track how those services perform, and makes no firm commitment to airmail. Contrast this with the US where first class is highly regimented and tracked, late acceptance scans by post offices are tracked, late deliveries are tracked, employees are measured against poor performance based on this data, and there is a wealth of data due to draw upon due to the tracking data. This isn't to say USPS doesn't have its issues (the time taken for domestic processing of international packages out of the international sorting centers, particularly LA is a problem), but the point is their postal service is evaluated on metrics driven by data, whereas Canada Post is not. You simply can't apply the same program as it is apples and oranges. As a seller you currently have no fine control over highly visible ETAs that are displayed to a buyer and it is becoming a key metric by which your account is measured. The fact that these are hard coded ETAs means that they can be updated at any time, with no notice to you as a seller.

The goal is to trigger a purchase, and reward sellers who use faster shipping methods, with better handling times. This isn't problematic per se, but what is problematic is building a system around this and then applying it to a country where tracking is not a standardized practice. For the US the system will work fine as it only impacts a smaller number of sellers that are too lazy to ensure their shipments are sent tracked, and upload that data. The overall idea of the program is fine and is ultimately fairer, but is only applicable to a subset of Canadian sellers due to the limitations of Canada Post.

[rainbow71113]

out of curiosity I looked at your listings, and was surprised that you have none and haven't for quite some time, interesting that you are commenting on things that you aren't even doing, like listing with a shipping method, things have changed on ebay since you last listed anything

[hlmacdon]

You can in fact list something without a shipping price and not all shipping methods list an eta to all locations (but more on that later). Additional ship to locations buyers contact for costs, select will ship worldwide, apply your excluded locations as necessary through your site preferences, whle populating your domestic service as appropriate.

Here is some testing based on the current ebay hard coded etas:

United Kingdom

• Light packet International 5-10 business days (Canada Post Specifies 6-10 business days, only applies to sending from major centers and not guaranteed)
• Small packet International Air 5-11 business days (Canada Post Specifies 6-10 business days, only applies to sending from major centers and not guaranteed)
• Small Packets International Ground - Varies for items shipped from an internatonal location
• Standard International Shipping - 4-10 business days

USA

• Canada Post Light Packet USA - 6-11 business days (Canada Post Specifies 5-8 business days, only applies to sending from major centers, and is not guaranteed)
• Canada Post Small Packet USA - 5-11 business days (Canada Post Specifies 5-8 business days, only applies to sending from major centers, and is not guaranteed)
• Small Packet International Air - 5-18 business days
• Small Packets International Ground - 5-13 business days
• Standard International Shipping - 6-11 business days
• Expedited International Shipping - 5-10 business days

Now as you can see a lot of these are either redundant or don't make sense. The longest estimate you can get for international is with the small packet international ground. It also has the benefit of replacing the highly visible eta for many international locastions with the Varies for items shipped from an international location ETA which was the standard for the Standard International method, which was changed to an unrealistic 4-10 business days. This allows you to set a method, clearly explain your ETAs in your listing description, including exceptions for countries with well known long delivery times.

The point is simply by choosing whichever method, you are making a promise (made for you by ebay, but nonetheless it is your listing) on the delivery time frame. That is in your control and this is what you can change to help head off unwanted defects. I firmly believe the seller should have better control as my exercise above shows that the current etas do not all make sense. In the meantime you need to way as a business decision what that ETA means for you in terms of negatives and defects that may effect your selling account more than potential lost sales.

If you call ebay you may not be able to get the defect removed for the item description. The buyer has stated an opinion with nothing to contradict themselves, and ebay generally leaves those alone.

<I'm surprised at your comment since you are on an ebay forum, you can not list anything on ebay without putting a shipping price <and shipping method so it is Canada Post/ebay that is specifying the duration of delivery estimate, I'm not promising anything one <way or the other, I'm only putting on a shipping method from those available to me- and ALL methods display an estimated delivery <date so I don't know what you are doing differently if your listings do not give that information to the buyer at purchase/payment.  By <the way, speaking of that negative, the defect was for item not as described and you got me thinking.... when someone says that <the item is not as described usually they open a case to get all or some of their money back, the buyer did not, and I'm wondering if <that defect would still apply since they made no effort to challenge the description and obviously wanted to keep the item, I'm going <to have to call ebay to find out...

[hlmacdon]

This is a personal account, not a business account where I sell from.

<out of curiosity I looked at your listings, and was surprised that you have none and haven't for quite some time, interesting that you are <commenting on things that you aren't even doing, like listing with a shipping method, things have changed on ebay since you last <listed anything

[momcqueen]

Anyone who wants to see how many days they themselves need to add to their Canada Post 'delivery standards' due to their location 'outside a major urban centre' needs to comb through the tables found here:

https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGdeliverystds-e.asp

Bookmark it. 

As to defects due to Item Descriptions, soon those won't count, of course, but the stain remains. I had a neutral removed last week because the buyer expressed remorse for having bought in their textual comment, citing the item size as being too small. The grounds under which it was removed was that the exact measurement of the item was cited in the item description. It was Day 59 of the item being purchased and at no point had they sent me a message to either express their disappointment or, more importantly, ask about a Return which I would gladly have accepted. 

More concerning, however, was the Feedback Specialist who took the call.

Without even listening to anything that I had said to her, without taking the time to read the feedback or Item Description in question, she told me repeatedly that it was not eligible for removal. I insisted firmly that it was. And then finally she said she was unable to confirm what I was telling her because she couldn't read what was on the screen due to it being too small to read at which point I said 'WHAT?' because it sounded like the call was being patched through from a tin can being hurtled down a mountainside then she mumbled something about putting me on hold at which point she returned and said it would be removed. And it was. 

It's not the first time I've been bamboozled by a Feedback Specialist and I have long believed they were not actually reading any part of the evidence being presented to them when you, as a seller, call for help but this is the first time the CSR said it was because she couldn't do it. Which begs the question: what kind of conditions are these people working under? And with what sort of equipment at their disposal? This call, like all others to the Feedback Specialists, was routed to the Call Centre in The Philippines and, without question, they are the absolute most polite Customer Service Reps I have ever death with but they sound as if they are working in a state of high panic and now I am beginning to wonder if they handle multiple client corporations simultaneously. She kept saying, 'Here at ebay...' while she quite obviously read from her canned script like it was she, herself, that she was trying to remind and not me. 

[hlmacdon]

Great link, and it illustrates the need for a user customizable shipping option. The current suggested work arounds of increasing handling days is more detrimental to potential purchases rather than a stated eta range. This is something that needs to be addressed in a stated eta range rather than erroneously causing buyers to believe that the seller doesn't care to get their order out the door.

[momcqueen]

I have to agree with your take on adding days to handling as the ebay-suggested workaround to their shortcomings on delivery estimates. My handling time is same-day and it's a main selling point in my area of sales. 

Also, as far as domestic delivery calculations are concerned, ten (or more) is the norm for remote or northern locations in Canada and that is way outside the standard two or three to eight business days. When ebay asks the buyer to input a postal code in that field, it should be using that data to actually demonstrate a quantifiable number of business days. As a buyer, I'm entering my postal code and thinking my input matters when, in fact, it doesn't. No mater what postal code in Canada I put into that spot, I'm going to get the same estimate. That's bogus and misleading. 

[hlmacdon]

Canada Post has all of that data stored. When we implemented our contracted rates we had all of the rural/remote exception handling times, cost uplifts, etc in the data feed from Canada Post. It's a matter of getting it properly implemented. In the absence of that, it is minimal database overhead to have a customizable text field with two data fields that the seller populates, then adjust the stated ETA lookup to add the stated handling time to generate the ETA displayed on the listing page. From a programming perspective it is preschool level.