Are we going to have another federal election??:|

So what is the feeling of the posters we have left here. Are we taking the track to another Federal election? Will the tories crumble an already unstable Liberal government? Post your feelings here!
Message 1 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

Actually only 40% by conservative with 134 seats, liberal 75, block 68, ndp 30.
Message 41 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

shoplineca
Community Member
Harper alone cannot bring down the government so he needs to form an alliance with the Bloc.

I would never vote for a party who supports or is supported by the Bloc.

My mother always taught me to choose my friends carefully or they may turn around and bite you in the a$$.

Should the NDP support Martin (clearly the Liberals are the only goverment who will see more of the NDP programs put forward) then the Conservative/Bloc coalition has only 1 more seat than the Liberal/NDP coalition with 3 independants to make the final and deciding decision on whether the government gets overthrown or not.

The poll that is suggesting a Conservative majority is under the assumption that turnout for voting will be typically what it has been in the last several elections.

However given that the majority of Cdns do not want an election, you cannot rely on previous turnouts to apply the numbers to and what you may have is a diproportionate number of people voting against Conservatives because an election has been called when not wanted and because the budget has been defeated which had many good parts in it for many Cdns.

Personally I believe that calling an election at this point is a total crap shoot for the Conservatives with a 50/50 chance of winning, be it minority or majority, the odds are 50/50 at best because of the uncertainty of how Cdns feel about going to the polls before the Gomery commission has tabled their final report and how recent it has been since the last Federal election.

Remember that a number of people that voted COnservative last time did so having already swayed from voting Liberal before over the $100 million ad scam, so they have already passed judgement over the Liberals. What the Gomery commission has leanred since then is that Martin and his current administration appear to be removed from what went on. Those fence sitters could move back and vote Liberal, disatisfied with Harper.

On the other hand, if a final report finds that some of the current Liberal Ministers and/or Martin did have a part in the fiasco, then the Conservatives would be able to proceed to the polls with greater certainty about winning.

So again I ask, what is the rush to an election except maybe not wanting to run on the truth?

Malcolm
Message 42 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

I also do not like the fact that Jack Layton is trying to make a back room deal with Martin right now. It is a joke...really. There are other things in the budget that are not good either. Just that Jack has chosen a big hitter with the corporate tax break. Martin will use him to try and stay in power and kick him to the curb when he doesn't need him anymore.
All Jack ever says...if the Liberals can remove the corporate tax break we would side with them. How pity is that? Almost sounds like a dance with the devil. Jack needs to realize this whole election fiasco is not about the budget and everything about the Sponsorship Scandal.
Message 43 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

shoplineca
Community Member
The funiest thing I learned about Jack Layton is that he lived in a subsidized housing unit when on Toronto City Council as he thought he had a right to it since he believed in public housing.

Meanwhile people are out on the street waiting for available housing. We had 2 councillors in the City of Ottawa do the same thing and both of them, like Jack lived in subsidized unbits, were on the Board of Public Housing (and they were both NDP supporters as well).

These jokers claimed tha they were not subsidized, that they were paying market rent at $650 for a 2-bedroom when market rate for a 2-bedroom in Ottawa was closer to $1,100.

Not only that, here they were single, living in a 2-bedroom apartment which could have been better used by a family of 4 or 5 that were really in need.

Politicians are all different and yet all alike at the same time.

Malcolm
Message 44 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

Malcolm, careful with the Jack in subsidized housing story. I actually spent a little time trying to get to the truth of this story but never did get the straight goods.

I'm not a fan of Layton but there are many questions about the accuracy of the story. Much of Toronto's more recent subsidized housing is in mixed developments where some units are subsidized and others are at market rates.

I do know that Jack likes his luxuries and has expensive tastes, something he has to keep a low profile about as it does not always mesh with his public political position.

Ben
"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915


"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 45 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

ospreylinks
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I haven't read this entire thread.... so I apologize.

It was just announced that Martin and Layton have come to some kind of terms.... so now the third (or are they the fourth) party is calling the shots....

I don't think it matters if the election is called today or in eight months, this entire issue has brought the Quebec Separation issue front and center and the real issue is not who and when will form the next government, but when the Separatists will prevail.

I know this is very simplistic, but I am really fearful for the fate of our country regardless of when an election is called or the outcome...... Someone will have to pay for this destabilization, but unfortunately I think it will be all of us.....

Jeff

In the meantime the Liberals with the NDP will control the chequing account....
Message 46 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

rd1000
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Hold on to your wallets. Our money is in the hands of Paul the thief, and Jack the prostitute.

Isn't it funny how a budget that last week was so important to the future of Canada, that would be a tragedy to have defeated, can so easily be changed from tax cuts to huge spending. Just a minor correction. A little ink on the paper. No big deal. Either way I am sure is for the greater good of the country.

If the first budget was so important to Canada, why didn't Martin give back the opposition days so Harper could support it. Martin is still facing a non-confidence vote, only now it is the budget. I just don't get it.

I wish I could be like the 40% of Canadians who just don't give a damn. My blood pressure would drop.
Message 47 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

ospreylinks
Community Member
Although I don't know if it will be published, I just submitted a letter to the editor of the Toronto Star...


I find it more difficult with every passing day to comprehend the muddled political landscape that faces us in this country.

We now have a party that only won 19 seats across the country being allowed to exert undue influence on the ruling governing party disguised in the cause of "making Parliament work". While both will be trying to control the pen that writes the cheques that buys the friends leading up to the next general election.

Note to back-bench Liberal MP's. The NDP Party now holds more power in your caucus than you do. Is this what your constituents voted for?

Add to this, the same Liberal party has one regime trying to discredit the Gomery Commission and another stating that it is valid if for nothing else than to buy time.

And you wonder why the electorate is cynical?


Jeff
Message 48 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

shoplineca
Community Member
I would like to remind everyone here (in case they forgot) that the Bloc were formed out of the Conservative party (many senior Conservatives) and if an election is called right now they may (90% chance) become the opposition.

With a recent poll taken in Quebec within the last 24 hours reflecting a clear 54% in favour of separation, our Federal government may have as its opposition, the Bloc party at the same time the province of Quebec proceeds to call for a referendum on splitting from Canada (momentum would suggest that would occur in the fall).

Hypothetically, can the Bloc remain as opposition should there be a sucessful vote for seperation?
Can those in large pockets of Quebec have the right to remain in Canada, with those parts of Quebec seperating from Quebec? Is it possible to fairly determine this with the Bloc as opposition?
Would a Federal election have to be called if Quebec seperated?

If an ealy election is called, all of Quebec will go to the Bloc, no question in my mind about that at all. Using the same momentum as the Bloc and Conservatives would use to force a spring election, I believe there will be a fall referendum for seperation of Quebec from Canada.

With a different Canada, there would have to be another federal election however the fallout of seperation may cause this country to evaluate federal control and fair representation and we may find the country splitting into 2 or 3 distinct areas without a Central government overseeing each of what makes up the New Canada.

I believe that several Provinces will begin to evaluate what they would get out of being part of the new Canada and why they should form a New Canada with the remaining Provinces including Ontario.

The East Coast, will be the hardest hit of all of the country because so many of the Provinces are "have-nots" and would be physically cut-off with Quebec in between.

One of the catalysts behind all of this is Jean Chetien, who is succeeding by his continuing attempts to quash Gomery and have him thrown out, something which is making Quebecers wild with distaste for the Liberal government.

At the same time, Chretien wants the Conservatives to call an election together with the Bloc as the end result will be seperation vote while the government was in the hands and control of the Conservatives.

I have said this before, as much as I have total distaste for Chreitien, he was the ultimate politician, in total control of his people and of this country.

Like so many people with such swollen heads, they would prefer to see their sucessor fail (in this case Martin, previously John Turner).

No, this whole fiasco is a very-well planned political move by Chrietien to kill the Martin run government, have a short-lived Conservative government that will fail at the 2nd election called because of Quebec's vote to seperate.

He either plans to come back in to put it all back together or have some of his key people back in power with him pulling the strings.

Of course this is just my opinion!

Ben
I heard the Layton apartment story again on CTV and a local radio show. I realize that the apartments are mixed deveopments, as are many of Ottawa's HOWEVER as I pointed out, the market rate they use for the apartments is far less than the actual market rates for apartments.

In the case of the 2 Ottawa civic politicians, they were paying $650 per month for a 2-bedroom, being the market rate Ottawa Housing set for the units (of which they both sat on the Board for) however according to the Ottawa Real Estate Board, market rental rates for 2-bedroom apts. was $1,100.

Jeff
I agree with you 100% in your concern for what is going to happen to this country following the next election, be it in June or December.

I believe that greed and desire for power has replaced civic duty. We have seen too many consecutive goverments all feeding from the public trough, from federal to provincial to municipal.

My personal opinion, as voiced several times, is that it has infiltrated itself well-beyond the politicians at this stage and is deeply entrenched amongst the civil servants, at least many of the most senior ones.

My problem is that the government that Harper will be given, with Quebec going for spereation, is one which he is unable to handle even on his best day, due to a severely indecisive manner about him. That coupled with some fairly one-sided policies that are in contradiction with some of his own party members, well he is not the man for the major challenges of running the next Federal government.

Nor is Martin for that matter, and certainly not Layton who would put us into bankruptcy before you could get out the first 2 lines of Oh Canada.

It is possible that some of this country may end up becoming territories of the US before this decade is finished.

Malcolm
Message 49 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

ospreylinks
Community Member
Malcolm I agree completely. The true repercussion of this entire scandal is not putting some corrupt politicians behind bars, but instead will be the break-up of the country as a result of new and heightened hysterial created by the separationalists in Quebec than we have seen before.

However, I agree that the Bloc will be a force to be reckoned with in the next Parliament, however I feel this will be a reality regardless if the election is June or December. So why not step to the plate now and get this dirty deed done with so we can commence to deal with the entire mess now..... the element of time will not stop the separatists.

Jeff
Message 50 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

shoplineca
Community Member
Jeff
Because if we do it now, the Gomerey inquiry may die. If Gomery is able to finish his objective and table his report, we may get to the root of the problem and get to some of the bad people in public service including poiticians and beaurocrats.

Right now, it is a tool used by the Bloc and Conservatives to force an election and to form the next Government and opposition without it needing to be completed.

If that happens, they will not have the same need to have it finalized nor more monies spent on chasing the former Liberal ghosts. In fact the last thing eiter the Conservatives or the Bloc would want coming out is that Martin and his current Liberals had no direct involvement at all, otherwise you will see a sympathy swing back to the Liberals.

No after having a spring election, I think you will find that the Gomery commission will die because the Government will not expend enough funds and effort to properly defend Chretien's legal efforts to get Gomery off the commission.

In June, at a date likely to follow a Spring election, Chretien's lawyers will be appealing their case to throw out Gomery. At that point, it would be very favourable for both the Conservatives and the Bloc for Chretien to be successful as the damage of the investigation, without the investigation proceeding further and without Gomeries conclusions being rendered, has been done.

Allowing Chreitien to win his motion to remove Gomerey will provide the final catalyst for Quebekers to vote overwhelmingly for seperation.

The Conservativbes and Bloc are far ahead with resting on existing testimony than waiting for Gomery to perhaps absolve Martin and the current group of Liberals of any wrong doings.

But if it were shown that the former PM was intricatly involved at every step together with several former cabinet ministers and high ranking beurocrats, none of which are part of the Martin team, and those people are then criminally charged for their actions, it is possible, that the people will sway to the Liberals as Martin called the inquiry and saw it through to the point of prosecution.

Quebekers will see Chretien, their own little guy frm Shawinigan, as the corrupt and evil person who stole frm them. It will be a Quebeker stealing from Quebekers and not Liberals stealing from Quebekers. That could mean tha some of those Quebec seats remain Liberal and fewer people vote for seperation.

Look, I know it is only a matter of time before it happens.

Why? Because it is inevitable? no, because Canada has done NOTHING to prevent it. Every distinct Francophone law should be challenged in International courts. Every act of Provincial sanctioned prejudice should be attacked on the grounds of discrimination.

But Martin, Harper and Layton do as everyone has in the past and that is to kiss the a$$ of the separatists, send them more money, patronize them, give them jobs and hope that will keep them in line.

Dont tell me that the Conservatives arent the same. Why else did they have their National Convention in Montreal?

It takes someone like a Trudeau who instituted Martial Law throughout Quebec, arresting thousands and kicked out the French Prime Minister when he shouted out support for their separation in 1967.

We need someone who is not afraid to stand up and to challenge.

Look, you are a long-time Conservative supporter and I have voted Liberal more often than Conservative so I could probably be referred to more as a Liberal than a Conservative, but the issue at this stage is not what policies either the Liberal or conservatives have for Canada going forward follwoing the next election.

Neither one of these parties is dealing with the reality thatr Canada in all likelihood will ot be follwoing the next election, what it is today. At the same time, this is being 100% avoided by both parties, by both leaders.

Why? Are they both blind or ignorant?

No, they dont want to talk reality and for that I dont want either of those loosers running the next Government.

Gilles Ducette speaks freely about what Quebec is doing and with conviction and support of more than 54% of the Quebec people. He has gone out to speak to people in each of our Provinces about future relations between Canada and Quebec as he has done in the US.

Yet this is something that has been totally avoided by the other parties because its would be political suicide.

Sorry, I dont want part of any party who is not taking about this, planning for it and wonderig how they are going to (a) deal with the 50 plus 1 vote (b) deal with the rest of the country and help it to stay together.

Every economic pledge made in the budgets, every plan for daycares and education and fundinds and everythig else goes down the toilet. There will be more time spent on seperation issues than running the rest of the country.

... and the other parties arent dealing with this at all at this time but you and I are worried about it Jeff and how it will affect us.

I dont know if I could, in good concience vote in the next election for any party knowing that a Quebec referendum will occur and none of the parties except the Bloc are dealing with this major issue, an issue larger than anything else we have had to face in recent history, even than in deciding to send our troops into battle during the 2nd world war.

Malcolm
Message 51 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

shoplineca
Community Member
I started a thread on the US PS Board to see what the Americans have heard about the current political events that are transpiring in Canada.

... and guess what? They know nothing about possible election, Gomery. $100 million ad scam, possible Quebec referendum with 54+% support ...

They did hear about Martin poo pooing the missile deal though and that pi$$ed them off.

I took advantage to inform them that sometimes the reprecussions from events in Canada affect their lives but their Government and press tend to withhold the reasons for thing that happen to them (such as softwood lumber tarriffs killing our West Coast forest industry drove up the price of new homes in the US between 7% and 12%).

Anyway if anyone wants to see the current US take on our political situation and scandal, here is the link:
http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?threadID=200081599&tstart=0&mod=1114642368031

Malcolm
Message 52 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

ospreylinks
Community Member
I guess you are right Malcolm that Gomery should be able to finish to validate that mess, but will the heads that should roll actually roll?

I see some staffers taking it on the chin, as they should for allowing it to happen, but the true architects, Chretien et al.... suffering public embarrassment but nothing else.

And it will still leave to huge unrest and lack of stability in this country.

For those who long for the $.60 dollar it may be back but for all of the wrong reasons......

Thanks for your persuasive and well thought dialogue.

Jeff
Message 53 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

shoplineca
Community Member
Jeff
I am not certain but it seems that very few of us see the real distaster we are heading for. You certainly do and it is clear in the concern voiced in your posts and it goes beyond party favourites at this stage.

I do not see any win/win situation arising from an early election or later election although I believe that the best chance to avoid catastophy is to wait until the Gomery report has been tabled and people charged (hopefully).

If Chretien is implicated and charged, that could be the answer to keeping Quebec within our confederation.

The night before the last Referendum, I stood on Parliament Hill with about 50,000 people, and I walked up on stage and grabbed the mc and talked about my brother-in-law who was serving in Croatia and Bosnia at the time and how tragic it would be for him to have to return to Canada to protect us from what would certainly turn into escalated civil war should the vote for separation go through.

Having lived through the FLQ crisis in 1970 in Ottawa, unless you were in this city or Montreal or Quebec city, Canadians had no idea what it was like. Armed soldiers everywhere on our streets, Military helicopters always flying overhead. My uncle was Mayor of Ottawa at the time and my cousins had police following them everywhere, as they walked to school, at the house (when I babysat my youngest cousin).

Later as I travelled through Latin America during their war years, I was confronted with the same sights as I had experienced in Ottawa a decade earlier.

This week my brother-in-law has returned to Bosnia to oversee the removal of land mines and he is expected to return about the time that I could forsee another referendum being called, in the fall (should there be a spring election).

Its almost like dejavu. If people believe that the separation of Quebec will be a simple matter of a vote and a quiet splitting up of the country using the existing borders, well it just wont happen like that.

I dread to see what may happen.

Malcolm
Message 54 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

Wow! Malcolm, I have never thought of it on those terms. Do you really think it could eventually turn into something similar? I certainly hope not.
Message 55 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

shoplineca
Community Member
Lets assume 54% vote in favour of seperating Quebec from Canada. That means that 1.4 million people voted to stay within Canada's federation. Do you think they will pack their bags and abandon their homes (because their homes certainly wont be worth anything)?

What will happen to all the Federal employees in Quebec, to the Federal buildings, National Parks, Indians and their reservations?

For seperatist day dreamers and intellectuals, they can just see everything going smoothly with the keys to the Province being turned over to their new King the day after the referendum.

What about people in Ontario and the rest of Canada and in the US that own property in Quebec? all their rights over visiting and owning and foreign taxation changes.

What about the Cdn Armed Forces whom Quebec believes those living in Quebec should remain in Quebec to form their new army. In fact with a fairly large and disproportionate amount of the senior military being francophones, there may be a serious problem in gaining or re-gaining control of our military.

How about the Quebecers working in Ontario in Federal jobs - Gone! If you lived in Ottawa you would see the tens of thousands crossing into Ottawa for work each day.

There will definately be pockets of severe resitence as there will be considerable force by Quebec authorities to try to control those about to loose everything.

Sorry, I cannot believe that the ultimate result will be an overly peaceful parting of company, that doesnt make sense to me given the passions of the Canadina people.

In the short run, the Ottawa area will see massive layoffs, including people living in Western Quebec. In the long-run, this will be a major city sitting next to an independant country and as such will develop some significant trade relations as well as political (that is should Ottawa remain the capital of Canada, that is should Ontario remain within confederation).

There is a high price to pay for one's independance, it does not come cheaply.

Malcolm
Message 56 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

muminlaw
Community Member
Unless things have changed a lot in the past few years, most Quebecers probably still believe there would be very little change in their personal, daily lives. Before the last referendum, any that we spoke with truly believed they would still have their Ottawa jobs, their Canadian pensions, that they would be able to "opt in" to the Canadian health care plan, they would use Canadian money and the Canadian banking system - some even believed they would still be entitled to the same transfer payments! In short, they believed would have all their current benefits of being Canadian, but pay taxes only to Quebec and make their own laws. Nice, pie-in-the-sky dreams! I hope someone has educated them a bit since then. If not, I'm afraid you're right - Canada was a nice, but short-lived, dream.
. Glenda
To Golf or Not To Golf? What a stupid question!
Glenda

Click here to go to my Store
Message 57 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

shoplineca
Community Member
Glenda
Something that I have always said about control by governments over the masses is by keeping your people ignorant, you keep them in line.

Wouldnt that idea of Quebec be total uptopia ideed, especially if they still receive money from Ottawa.

What I dont understand about our Federal Government is that we employ thousands of known separatists who will get pensions after separation, just like the Bloc members.

Who is more foolish, the separatists or the Canadian Government?

I know one thing for certain, despite what has happened in the past and the notion that Cdns are apathetic and passive, I dont believe for a moment that should a separation occur, our Federal Government will ever be allowed to run under the same means as it presently runs.

The people of Canada will never allow this Government to permit separation, to favour one Province over aother, to have misrepresentation of population sitting in Power, bilingualism etc etc etc. Its all to be examined, challenged and likely tossed out on its royal fanny.

Can you tell me who in Canada would be capable of holding what is left together following a sucessful referendum? I cant think of a single person.

Malcolm
Message 58 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

muminlaw
Community Member
If there is such a person, he (or she) is far too smart to run for public office! And in spite of our apathy and passivity, I hope we can only be pushed so far and when we push back we won't stop pushing until the things that need changing are changed.
. Glenda
To Golf or Not To Golf? What a stupid question!
Glenda

Click here to go to my Store
Message 59 of 62
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Are we going to have another federal election??:|

Malcolm,
You seem to know alot about Quebec...
Message 60 of 62
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