Beijing choking on thick smog - third straight day

[art-in-the-making]

China's carbon dioxide emissions are nearing double the U.S., whose own are more than double the next highest country's.

My guess is that levels of other, more toxic, substances are relatively even higher in China than in other nations.

Really sad and worrisome situation.

http://ph.news.yahoo.com/beijing-choked-pollution-dangerous-levels-152536654.html

[valve37]

The report Art doesn't seem to take into account natural occurences such as, volcanos, earth quakes, forest fires, flatuence, etc

I suppose the natural evolution of planet earth doesn't suit the scare and extract wealth from North America agenda. 

[art-in-the-making]

Leaving unturned stones the size of Mt. Kilimanjaro isn't usually what top-rung accounting firms and auditors are known for. Especially when it's the type of dis-info that's plastered on every Tea Party site from here to Oklahoma City.

I don't think PWC just randomly ignores all the petro-biz "think-tank" propaganda and bluster.

They give it due consideration and then ignore it.

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

I was one of those dyed-in-the-wool, mankink is going to heck in a handbasket, we are killing ourselves, believe in the science.

Now, I am not so sure.

What scince does say is that the earth is warming. There is zero dispute on that. The ice is melting, the oceans are rising, there is climate change.

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

Hit the wrong button.

What is ignored is that the earth naturally heats and cools. For the last few eons of time, the earth has been in a very cool phase. For most of the history of the planet, it has been very much warmer than now, long before humans cam along.

There are petrified trees in Canada's Arctic as it was once a swamp.

Are humans hurrying the change along? Maybe.

Was the earth going to warm anyway? Maybe.

One thousand years ago the earth was much warmer than it is today. The Vikings sailed to Iceland, Greenland and Northern Labrador. These areas were habitable because it was much warmer than today.

Greenland was called green because it was. It was much greener back then than it is now.

So then, the earth cooled off quite dramatically through the middle ages.

The earth was warmer. What were winters in Canada like? What was the extent of the Arctic ice pack? Where were the Polar Bears? Did Hudson Bay freeze over back then? How high were the oceans?

As the chart below shows, if ya can read it, warmer is more average than cooler. We are currently in a cool phase. The earth is usually warmer than it is today.

[art-in-the-making]

What is ignored is that the earth naturally heats and cools.

I don't believe this is news to any serious climatologist.

Thinking back to maybe 20-30 plus years ago, there was a lot of talk that we might be in a cooling trend.

But these trends normally take ages to develop and become measurable...

And then suddenly the whole thing turns on a dime and half the Arctic ice melts in less than a generation? Not likely in my opinion.

[nuvistors]

What is ignored is that the earth naturally heats and cools.

I don't believe this is news to any serious climatologist.

Thinking back to maybe 20-30 plus years ago, there was a lot of talk that we might be in a cooling trend.

But these trends normally take ages to develop and become measurable...

And then suddenly the whole thing turns on a dime and half the Arctic ice melts in less than a generation? Not likely in my opinion.

That is the problem> 

You are long on Opinion and short on facts.

123

[art-in-the-making]

Nu plenty of facts on this thread to discuss.

Heads up: Reading and writing would be prerequisites for this activity. 🙂

[pigdog47]

Is it a fact that humans are the cause of them ice cubes melting, and not natural global temperature fluctuations?  Will spending many billions or trillions of $$$ guarantee the ice cubes won't melt, and the sea levels won't rise?  Those poor polar bears - the horror!

I think it is a fact that a system of trading carbon credits to permit rich folks to keep emitting does nothing for the environment. Zilch.  Another fact is that some of the Doom and Gloom Club; like Suzuki and Gore profit personally by scaring the public.  So do scientists.

Confusing "Predictions" with "Facts"?   Manipulation of statistics and data is done by both sides in a debate. The fact that "X" number of scientists think such and such means nothing to me. And that is a fact! 

[valve37]

A fact is a fact and when you have a good fact it's a proven fact.

And here is another fact:

Beijingers are not choking on CO², they are choking on airborne particulates and that's a proven fact.

[pigdog47]

Some nutjobs won't be happy untill they are living in bio-domes on Mars.  Poor things overdosed on Suzuki and Science Fiction.

Scientists can't accurately predict what the weather will be next month.  That doesn't seem to stop them from asserting that global temps and sea levels will rise 2.8 inches / degrees (whatever) in the next 100 years.... because of humans!  See anything wrong with that picture?  

[puckstopshere]

Seems like some of those folks had Ulterior Motives to fudge / alter data to fit their agendas.

Not to mention their grants.

[puckstopshere]

I suppose they just want to read what fits their agendas.

A brilliant self-analysis!

[puckstopshere]

Are humans hurrying the change along?

Was the earth going to warm anyway?

I believe both statements are true.  The only thing yet to be determined is which is the more significant.  I think that mankind is accelerating the process.  We can spend billions to reduce mankinds contribution to global warming.  But, in the end, are we simply delaying the inevitable by a couple of hundred years. 

Mankind is inherently foolish.  We seem to think that we can defeat nature and do as we please.  Inevitably, nature wins.  I have been watching as all these poor folks who lost their homes in Hurricane (it was really just a storm) Sandy rush to rebuild in the exact same place that was just wiped out by the storm.  Science tells us water levels are rising.  Science tells us weather conditions have become more extreme.  We can expect another storm in Jersey and New York.  It is not predicatable, but it is inevitable.  And still they rebuild.

Maybe Sandi was just God's way of telling Snooki and the rest of the Jersey shore idiots to clean up their act.

[art-in-the-making]

OK pd you don't believe the conclusions of thousands of scientists, you don't believe professional auditors and you don't allow yourself to be drawn into any discussion where logic or reason could actually come into play.

You do believe the petroleum industry, the Tea Party, the Bible and I don't know maybe Fox News.

I guess we'll have to leave it at that.

.

[pigdog47]

I believe, Art.  (Not to be confused with: I believe Art!)

[pigdog47]

I believe I'll probably vote for the Conservative Party in the next election!

[puckstopshere]

the Tea Party

You haven't been listening to the news.  Scientists (actually Anderson Cooper) are reporting that the Tea Party is almost dead and has resorted to soliciting funds from many of the same groups they once criticized.  Willing to compromise their principles for the almighty dollar.

[puckstopshere]

I believe I'll probably vote for the Conservative Party in the next election!

Now you've done it.  iDLE nO mORE's next protest will be at your house.

[art-in-the-making]

Puck, it's possible the planet could be warming anyway, without manmade warming.

I haven't seen as much evidence of that. As mentioned, there was some opinion that as of the 60s and/or 70s that the Earth was in a cooling phase. Still, I agree it could be possible the Earth could be naturally warming at present.

As for spending $$$ billions, trillions, etc., I don't necessarily agree with many of these strategies.

There are other alternatives. For example, Japan uses half the energy as the U.S. does to produce an equivalent GDP.

http://co2-art.blogspot.ca/2010/09/turning-japanese-instant-climate-change.html

A lot could be achieved by a reasonable combination of lifestyle changes, sustainable industry, renewable energy, etc.

[art-in-the-making]

iDLE nO mORE's next protest will be at your house.

😄