Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

I sold an item that had the wrong postage (the rates went way up since I created the listing). I refunded the buyer, sent an apology and a new invoice. Buyer did not pay for it again.


Buyer emailed me with  veiled threats about being unhappy about shipping and about leaving negative feedback and demanded I mail item PRONTO? (Buyer still has not paid).


I tried to cancel the sale, but buyer refused to cancel.


I called ebay and they said they would remove any negative feedback as this buyer is breaking a rule, advised me to block buyer and they would refund my final fees. They also said I should send in a report - I did this.


 


My question is - this item is sitting UNPAID for and Is still up in the air, but I want nothing more to do with this nasty buyer. Can I just relist the item?


I have blocked him. What would be the next best step?

Message 1 of 33
latest reply
32 REPLIES 32

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

You are breaking the rules by increasing the shipping after the auction is over and has a winner.


 


You  deserve a negative for not fulfilling your pcontract with the buyer !

Message 2 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

rosscd57
Community Member

I don't think I would be very happy either if I bought an item and the price was increased by a seller after the sale.


 


I would not send you the increased amount either.


 


If you did not catch the postal rate increase - you should have eaten it, not passed it on to a buyer who had already paid.


 


Your next step should be to honour the original deal.


 

__________________________________________________________

Old enough to know better. Young enough to do it again. Crazy enough to try
Message 3 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

The buyer simply wants the iem he purchased at the  price you sold it to him.


 


Feedback extortion only occurs when  a buyer threatens bad feedback for something not in the auction.

Message 4 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

Nuvisitor - Thanks for your note - Did I say it was an Auction?


Negative is fine with me, but threats are not.


The person has not PAID for the item.


Any other ideas?


Thanks

Message 5 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

Hi rosscd57 - Thanks- I agree with you and was about to do this when I got the threatening email and that is not ok with me.


So for now I would rather burn the item than send it to someone that is doing this.


This new Track Packet thing is killing - I have eaten several of the increases on items, but with this buyer - I don't think that would even make him happy.


Can't win them all.


The item sits unpaid for and I Never mail without payment.


Thanks for your intelligent words.

Message 6 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

Put it this way, how would you feel if a seller did this to you ?


 


It is your responsibility to educate yourself in regards to Postal Increases & make the necessary revisions in your listing.


 


Wow, just wow.

Message 7 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

hoppy24
Community Member


I sold an item that had the wrong postage (the rates went way up since I created the listing). I refunded the buyer, sent an apology and a new invoice. Buyer did not pay for it again.


 


 


Also "Hi rosscd57 - Thanks- I agree with you and was about to do this when I got the threatening email and that is not ok with me."


 


I am sorry you might not like this answer but.......


  


  A) in your own words originally stated you did NOT plan on sending it out at the listed selling/shipping price. The issues and buyer backlash started AFTER you changed the terms of the sale.  So your response to Ross was some backtracking spin.


 


 B) as a seller like it or not those things are our responsibility.  They say when you bid, or inter into a BIN/fixed price agreement it is a contract of sorts.  The buyer chose your product over others based on price and shipping. After they were committed you changed the deal. 


 


  Disregard any "threats" from the buyer, and look at this from a different angle.  What if this person bought the item.. but strung you along and then said "opps dont want it, dont have the money/found one cheaper" You would be upset, and wanting to open a Item Not Payed dispute, because they changed the deal.


 


  If you go into a store, and their listed price says one thing, and you get to the check out they cant change the price to a higher rate, they honour the listed price/terms. Why? Not only is it good customer service, but its the law!! Check out stores policies regarding UPC scanning/pricing errors.


 


  What if you went to put gas in your car. The pump said $1.23 cents a liter, but by the time you walked in to pay they said "opps, sorry I forgot to change the sign, its actually $1.35"


 


 Unfortunately as much as you do not want to hear this, you were in the wrong. Its up to you to update your shipping options/costs. you said you been eating the costs for some time. Well that should have been your clue to change your pricing structure. Dont make one buyer the scape goat  just because they were less than charming to you changing the deal.


 


  I have been on the buyer side of this as well as the seller side. I had the winning bid on a project book from the US that had like $2 shipping. I thought bonus!! all their other ads said $2 shipping to my postal code as well (I checked) . Well I come home, check ebay. I won the item but the seller sent me a long letter saying "they made a mistake.. they didn't realize that book would be $14 to ship to Canada" and wanted me to cancel the deal.  Out of good faith and good Karma (as a seller)  I did cancel, but not before giving them the same explanations as you will see here.  I have also made shipping quote mistakes and ate the costs too. Its all part of shipping your product!!


 


    This is not a personal attack. You asked about the situation. You messed up. you would have been better off saying something like "I will redeem the price this time, but be informed shipping rates have increased so next time might not be so cheap" or talk them into maybe buying other items from you at this point in time, to combine ship, to make the whole deal worth it and keep people happy.  Times are tough, its better to take a less than happy customer and retain them, then to totally brush them off. Of course its best to keep them happy from the start! LOL


 


  As for re-listing. I personally would wait for this to all settle down before re-listing, especially if you only have 1 of the item. Then hope the buyers wife, neighbour, cousin doesnt bid on it to add to your ebay enjoyment 🙂

Message 8 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

"I sold an item that had the wrong postage (the rates went way up since I created the listing). I refunded the buyer, sent an apology and a new invoice."


 


As sellers, we all make mistakes in our listings from time to time. 


 


With ten years on eBay, over 1,700 transactions, a 100% feedback rating and above average DSR ratings of 5.0, 5.0, 4.9 and 4.9, I somehow did not expect you to proceed as you have.  I would have expected you to absorb the shipping rate increase and complete the transaction as paid by the buyer.


 


While the buyer should not have used "threats" of negative feedback in communucations with you, that problem would not have occured if you had done the right thing. I am disappointed in eBay for agreeing with you and refunding your fees.


 


And you are a TRS yet?


 


I just do not get it.

Message 9 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

the wrong postage (the rates went way up since I created the listing). I refunded the buyer, sent an apology and a new invoice


 


You are in the wrong.


The only amount you can charge for postage is the amount you advertised. Apologize to your buyer, reinstate the original postage and hope that your apology is abject enough that he doesn’t trash your DSRs


Feedback is much less important than DSRs, and a positive FB may mask one star ratings.


If your DSRs drop below 4.3, your ability to list and to sell will be restricted.


 

Message 10 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

This would be a good time to close all your listings and revise the shipping. Three hundred items shouldn't take more than a day or two.


You should also decide if you need tracking and insurance. Would Expedited (which gives a 20-25% discount from  PO counter  prices if printed through Paypal) or even the untracked , uninsured Small Packet work for you in your category?


Keep in mind that the international postal service is quite good at what it does. In over 25 years of mail order selling, I doubt I’ve actually lost more than a dozen packages. (However, most of those were eBay claims.)


You can also self-insure by putting a few pennies on every package as a sort of premium. Should you have a loss or damage claim , you pay from that fund, before PP or eBay get involved.


 

Message 11 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage


This would be a good time to close all your listings and revise the shipping. Three hundred items shouldn't take more than a day or two.


You should also decide if you need tracking and insurance. Would Expedited (which gives a 20-25% discount from  PO counter  prices if printed through Paypal) or even the untracked , uninsured Small Packet work for you in your category?


Keep in mind that the international postal service is quite good at what it does. In over 25 years of mail order selling, I doubt I’ve actually lost more than a dozen packages. (However, most of those were eBay claims.)


You can also self-insure by putting a few pennies on every package as a sort of premium. Should you have a loss or damage claim , you pay from that fund, before PP or eBay get involved.


 



 


Expedited Parcel discount is now 18% maximum since the April 9 changes. Tracked Packet might be a cheaper alternative for insurance and tracking if the item is 250 grams and under $100.


 


PayPal discount changes announcement by eBay effective April 9.


 


***Addition of Tracked Packet and Changes to Rate Subsidies for Canada Post Expedited Parcel***


 


http://www2.ebay.com/aw/ca/201303071017232.html


 


 

Message 12 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage


 


I called ebay and they said they would remove any negative feedback as this buyer is breaking a rule, advised me to block buyer and they would refund my final fees. They also said I should send in a report - I did this.


 



 


I just wanted to comment on the comment above........


 


If this buyer leaves NFB it will likely be removed just as promised by eBay.


 


 


 


The seller does, in fact, deserve NFB.


 


(I wouldn't leave a neg but that's just because its not my style............. but that this is not to say it's not deserved.)


 


Simply because the buyer stated that NFB would be left if the seller didn't make things right, it would be removed.


 


I understand why the system is set up like that........... BUT....... really.........


 


How Fair Is That???


 


 


 


 


 

Message 13 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

The seller doesn't deserve anything!  If they don't want to ship,  its their business . why should he loose money?  Why should ebay take payola everytime a seller charges for shipping?


 


Why should he care or listen to his customers when EBAY doesn't. 


 


Follow by example! 

Message 14 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

For some reason this discussion is beginning to turn rather nasty.  I'd like to be more analytical and focus on resolving the problem.


 


"orphanitems" did make a mistake.  It shouldn't have been made, it's against eBay policy, but it's done now, and with your otherwise perfect record, I doubt you'll make it again.  The solution in future of course is to either eat the excess shipping or immediately revise/correct the shipping rates in your listings.


 


The buyer made a mistake in sending threats about FB, and possibly, eBay made a mistake in siding completely with the buyer - since we don't know exactly what the buyer said, it's hard to say if eBay's decision was correct (IMO eBay customer service basically just reads off the policy pages; they don't apply good judgment).  However, that's done now too.


 


This used to be called a "Mexican standoff", one party in each corner unable to budge, and the item remains unpaid.  The buyer is now blocked from paying anyway (per eBay's advice!), and the seller has no desire to remove the block and complete the sale (which would go against eBay's advice to block the buyer in any case). 


 


From what's been stated, it appears eBay will remove negative FB/DSRs regardless of the outcome.


 


Therefore my suggestion would be: contact eBay and ask if they will cancel the transaction under the circumstances, based on the report you submitted and their own advice.  Granted, a forced cancellation is a very unusual request, but they've painted themselves into a corner with their own advice, basically telling you not to deal with this buyer, so it may be worth a try.  You also have an almost perfect record as a seller, which may work in your favour with eBay.


 


You may need to provide a more detailed explanation about why the situation is at a complete impasse, i.e. why neither buyer nor seller can conclude the transaction now, and that it would be unfair to ask you to complete, since they (eBay) have stated that the buyer has breached eBay policy and advised you to block him.


 


If the representative you speak to is confused or unsure about what to do, ask to speak to an account manager -- they seem to be somewhat more sophisticated in their understanding of eBay complexities.


 


If eBay says this is impossible, you may have no choice but to close the transaction yourself somehow.  At the worst you can remove the block, and either accept payment and ship (along with an apology, if you wish), or file an UID if he doesn't pay, then apply to remove any negative FB that is left.


 


Hopefully you'll be able to squeak out of this ugly situation, but you need to take steps to ensure it never occurs again.


 


BTW, I've had lots of listings that go "out of date" on shipping costs, but I just consider it as a discount to my buyers, and always absorb the difference myself.  If you're willing to do that, you can avoid having to revise each and every listing.  Since I frequently give my customers shipping reductions anyway, this works well for me on the older listings - a lot less work than trying to forever keep up with Canada Post.

Message 15 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

rosscd57
Community Member


 


The buyer made a mistake in sending threats about FB, and possibly, eBay made a mistake in siding completely with the buyer - since we don't know exactly what the buyer said, it's hard to say if eBay's decision was correct (IMO eBay customer service basically just reads off the policy pages; they don't apply good judgment).  However, that's done now too.


 



 


I still have a problem with that.


 


If the buyer fully intends to leave negative feedback - what's the matter with informing the seller that is what he intends to do.


 


As long as it is not coupled with extortion - something like if you don't lower the shipping I will give you negative feedback.


 


Letting the seller know in advance what kind of feedback he/she is going to receive is not a threat unless coupled with one. So what's the matter with it? I do not care if it is not good form - I have resolved at least two buys doing just that. No threat - just information.

__________________________________________________________

Old enough to know better. Young enough to do it again. Crazy enough to try
Message 16 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

rosscd57
Community Member

As a follow up to the above post - here is the skinny right out of the eBay handbook.


 


"Buyers sometimes threaten to leave negative Feedback if the transaction didn't meet their expectations. Although this can be unpleasant, it's not considered to be Feedback extortion. Feedback extortion is when a buyer threatens to leave negative Feedback unless you provide goods and services that weren't part of the original transaction.'

__________________________________________________________

Old enough to know better. Young enough to do it again. Crazy enough to try
Message 17 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

"I called ebay and they said they would remove any negative feedback as this buyer is breaking a rule, advised me to block buyer and they would refund my final fees. They also said I should send in a report"


 


That is the part that does not make sense to me. Those comments by eBay do not represent their well established policies.

Message 18 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

[/quote]


If the buyer fully intends to leave negative feedback - what's the matter with informing the seller that is what he intends to do.


[/quote]


 


As I said, my experience is that eBay customer service doesn't always use good judgment, but we don't know exactly what was said by the buyer either.  The fact is that eBay made this call, it's water under the bridge, and the way I see it, fair or not to the buyer, it's the only way the OP has to get out of the mess. 


 


I agree that this situation would not have happened had the seller acted properly to begin with, but I think a resolution of some kind at this point is better than being in indefinite limbo.

Message 19 of 33
latest reply

Buyer using veiled threats of bad feedback as unhappy with postage

The OP has been an ebay seller long enough to know that he was totally in the wrong. 


 


The buyer paid and expecterd to get what he paid for.


 


 


Only an unethical person could think otherwise/


 


 


 


123

Message 20 of 33
latest reply